Why is this game so hard?

rebel3_6_1 · Post by **rebel3_6_1** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:50 pm

Ok, I'm playing Icewind Dale 2 for the second time. I just beat Baldur's Gate 2 + Throne of Bhaal for the third time. When I played BG2, I completely owned every battle. Mellisan couldn't even touch me. I started IWD 2 and I'm finding it incredibly difficult. It seems that every major battle, even a group of orcs, requires at least 2 or 3 reloads, and the troll took about 15 (I reload everytime someone dies, by the way). Why are these fights so tough? Is there something I'm doing wrong? If there is some common mistake, could you tell me? Also, I would appreciate any tips to make the battles manageable.

P.S.
I don't like resting after every single battle because I think it kills the role-playing aspect to rest for eight hours for every hour or two of actually doing something.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:01 pm

The first thing I'd say is what difficulty setting are you playing?

Secondly, what's your party make up?

As for general tactics, I've found a few things that work well at low levels:

Disabling Spells are worth their weight in gold. I had my bard learn Charm Person at level 2 and if cast at the start of a fight it turned many battles. Web, Grease and Sleep are all excellent as is Hold Person (for a cleric) and Horror. Paniced creatures don't fight back, and despite it's +3 sav. bonus Horror usually hits a few targets.

Missile weapons are your friend. Rapid Shot feat plus a non crossbow weapon is a must for most of my characters. At low levels my basic tactic was to have my whole party fire off a volley at the first opponent they saw, then as they got closer, had my Fighter and Barbarian change to sword and shield or Greatsword and engage in melee. My other characters then either cast spells, healed the fighters or continued to fire missile weapons.

Beast Claw turns many a battle. At low levels this spell is superb. It boosts strength by 4 (+2 attack and damage), plus an extra attack per round with good base damage of 2-8 per hit. If you have a druid capable of casting it, memorise as many copies as you can, your Druid will become your best fighter. If you have no druid, you can still use the Houndstooth Collar you get from Voghtan's Body in the prologue. I put this on one of my weaker melee characters (my Bard or Cleric) and used it as soon as the fight starts. This won me many battles, Putting the Collar on my Battleguard of Tempus Cleric and having him go beast made him a 20 strength durable fighter that hit twice per round doing 7-13 damage per hit.

Flaming Oil is great. It's a mini Fireball that anyone can cast. If you have a swarm of gobins/orcs coming at you, have someone cast Grease infront of them to slow them down and bunch them up then have another 2 or 3 characters each throw a Flaming oil into the middle of them. Instant BBQ. once the survivors make it out of the grease, have your melee fighters mop them up, chances are they're half dead now anyway.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:37 pm

Are you sure that you didn't start with HoF mode enbled?
and please tell me your party setup..
perhaps this is just your tactics.. or you just have buggy version of this game..

tfrab · Post by **tfrab** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:45 am

[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Ok, I'm playing Icewind Dale 2 for the second time.

[SNIP]

Why are these fights so tough? Is there something I'm doing wrong? If there is some common mistake, could you tell me? Also, I would appreciate any tips to make the battles manageable.[/QUOTE]

there are two things to say

1. group composition: it's important to have a well balanced group. if you already played BG2 and similar it shouldn't be a problem, I can just tell you that an "arcane" party is really better than an a melee party

2. tactic. at low levels you are always outnumbered by enemies: use sleep!
you should also use a combination of grease, web and entangle to create areas where you can trap enemies and slay them with area effect spells (fireball, snillocc snowswarm, etc.) and ranged weapons. At higher levels malison+chaos is exceptional.
Two spellls very useful are animate dead (undead increase in power with caster's level), mirror immage (my sorcerers go melee with everybody without problems, one of them has AC9 because of dex penalty!).
Chroomatic orb is very useful: you stun an opponent and fighters kill them with maximized attack.
Spell focus: evocation, necromancy and so on are very good because of opponent's penalties to saving throw: use it in conjunction with malison and similar.

P.S.
I don't like resting after every single battle because I think it kills the role-playing aspect to rest for eight hours for every hour or two of actually doing something.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:42 am

I see the main things have alreadybeen mentioned above. All I can ad dis that I felt the same way, and I know how frustrating this can be. In my case tactics change solved everything. Preparation is the key to every major battle, and you definitely need spellcasters!

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:03 am

But if game is still way too hard i will tell you how to beat it...

Create bard to your team..
Pause game and then start sinnging.. you can sing in paused mode and get insane bonusses.. but each song has its cap..

when you have sang all songs taht you need unpuase and you will have those bonusses...

(you need lingerine song feat...

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:10 am

Really? Tat's kind of cheesy... Well, still a way to go if nothing else helps

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:27 am

yes that is true...

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:35 am

If we know the make-up of your party, we can give you better suggestions. It's hard to make suggestions not know what characters you are using. Give us race, class, stat, feats and weapons.

rebel3_6_1 · Post by **rebel3_6_1** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:33 pm

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm about to start playing and I'll try some of the tactics. Here is the info on my characters.

Kalia Half-Elf Level 2 Evoker
Str. 8
Dex. 18
Con. 14
Int. 18
Wis. 10
Cha. 8

Features: Combat Casting, Simple Weapons Crossbow, Mace, Quarterstaff, & Small Blade, and one on Spell Penetration.

Weapons: Heavy Crossbow & Whispering Staff

Shandar Aasimar Level 2 Cleric of Helm
Str. 14
Dex. 10
Con. 14
Int. 10
Wis. 20
Cha. 12

Features: Armor Proficiency 3, Simple Weapons Crossbow, Mace 2, Missile, Quarterstaff, Small Blade.

Weapons: Mace, Sling.

Kasha Lightfoot Halfling Level 1 Rogue/Level 1 Ranger
Str. 8
Dex. 20
Con. 18
Int. 12
Wis. 8
Cha. 10

Features: Armor Proficiency 2, Martial Weapons Axe, Bow 2, Flail, Great Sword, Hammer, Large Sword, & Polearm, 1 on all Simple Weapons.

Weapons: Dagger +1, Long Bow.

Tessa Aasimar Level 2 Sorcerer
Str. 6
Dex. 18
Con. 14
Int. 10
Wis. 12
Cha. 20

Features: Combat Casting, 1 on all the Simple Weapons.

Weapons: Heavy Crossbow, Masterwork Dagger.

Larkon Half-Orc Level 1 Fighter/Level 1 Barbarian
Str. 20
Dex. 8
Con. 18
Int. 7
Wis. 13
Cha. 8

Features: Armor Proficiency 3, Dash, All Martial Weapons 1, All Simple Weapons 1, Strong Back.

Weapons: Warhammer, Short Bow.

Brantog Shield Dwarf Level 2 Fighter
Str. 18
Dex. 10
Con. 20
Int. 8
Wis. 11
Cha. 9

Features: Armor Proficiency 3, Improved Initiative, Large Sword 2, All other Martial Weapons 1, Shield Proficiency 1, All Simple Weapons 1.

Weapons: Scimitar +1, Short Bow.

I would gladly accept any advice on proper use of my party, recommended features, spells, etc. to get, or any other ideas you guys might have for me. I am at Shaengarne Ford right now.

<Edit> Also, if you think any of these characters could be replaced by a more effective character, I'm not so far that it would be hard for me to delete one of them and create a new one if you have any good ideas.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:39 pm

How much XP do you have? and my party was around level 5 when i got to shaengarne ford...

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:00 am

[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Kalia Half-Elf Level 2 Evoker
Str:8 Dex:18 Con:14 Int:18 Wis:10 Cha:8
Feats: Combat Casting, Simple Weapons Crossbow, Mace, Quarterstaff, & Small Blade, and one on Spell Penetration.
Weapons: Heavy Crossbow & Whispering Staff[/QUOTE]
Seems ok.
[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Shandar Aasimar Level 2 Cleric of Helm
Str:14 Dex:10 Con:14 Int:10 Wis:20 Cha:12
Feats: Armor Proficiency 3, Simple Weapons Crossbow, Mace 2, Missile, Quarterstaff, Small Blade.
Weapons: Mace, Sling.[/QUOTE]
I would drop Int by 4 or 6 and add it to Dex.
[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Kasha Lightfoot Halfling Level 1 Rogue/Level 1 Ranger
Str:8 Dex:20 Con:18 Int:12 Wis:8 Cha:10
Feats: Armor Proficiency 2, Martial Weapons Axe, Bow 2, Flail, Great Sword, Hammer, Large Sword, & Polearm, 1 on all Simple Weapons.
Weapons: Dagger +1, Long Bow.[/QUOTE]
Drop INT & CHA down, add atleast 2 to WIS and the rest to STR. I would also consider taking Weapon Finesse because of your high DEX.
[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Tessa Aasimar Level 2 Sorcerer
Str:6 Dex:18 Con:14 Int:10 Wis:12 Cha:20
Feats: Combat Casting, 1 on all the Simple Weapons.
Weapons: Heavy Crossbow, Masterwork Dagger.[/QUOTE]
Drop 2 WIS and some off INT and add to STR.
[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Larkon Half-Orc Level 1 Fighter/Level 1 Barbarian
Str:20 Dex:8 Con:18 Int:7 Wis:13 Cha:8
Feas: Armor Proficiency 3, Dash, All Martial Weapons 1, All Simple Weapons 1, Strong Back.
Weapons: Warhammer, Short Bow.[/QUOTE]
Drop INT, WIS and CHA and buff up DEX. With a tank like this, you should have atleast 14 DEX
[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Brantog Shield Dwarf Level 2 Fighter
Str:18 Dex:10 Con:20 Int:8 Wis:11 Cha:9
Feats: Armor Proficiency 3, Improved Initiative, Large Sword 2, All other Martial Weapons 1, Shield Proficiency 1, All Simple Weapons 1.
Weapons: Scimitar +1, Short Bow.[/QUOTE]
Having odd number abilities doesn't really give you anything. I would drop INT & CHA down a few and add to DEX. I would also multi-class this character. I don't see any point in having a fighter higher than level 4.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:06 am

I would also suggest including a druid. Druids in this game truly come into their own, they have awesome spells that, IMO, are on parr with those cast by wizards and sorcerors. In my game I have a Dwarven Druid. The combination might seem a bit unorthodox, but he kicks serious butt. In addition to casting he is also excellent at melee, and has one of the highest kill counts in my party. Not to mention that druid shapeshifting abilities in IWD2 are excellent!

One of the strengths of IWD2 is that success is very much based on strategy. Unlike similar games you really have to think about how you will approach a battle. Quite often in BG2, I was able to blunder in and avoid any serious harm.. not so in IWD2.
I have found that having a character with good stealth abilities can be critical. I always send my monk off to scout any new area, and then plan accordingly...

tfrab · Post by **tfrab** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:53 pm

[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Thanks for all the input guys. I'm about to start playing and I'll try some of the tactics. Here is the info on my characters.

Kalia Half-Elf Level 2 Evoker
Str. 8
Dex. 18
Con. 14
Int. 18
Wis. 10
Cha. 8

Features: Combat Casting, Simple Weapons Crossbow, Mace, Quarterstaff, & Small Blade, and one on Spell Penetration.

<Edit> Also, if you think any of these characters could be replaced by a more effective character, I'm not so far that it would be hard for me to delete one of them and create a new one if you have any good ideas.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you don't need an evoker, because sorcerers can cast many evocation spell, I'd rather choose a specialist who cannot use this school, such as enchanter or conjurer

rebel3_6_1 · Post by **rebel3_6_1** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:59 pm

[/QUOTE]Having odd number abilities doesn't really give you anything. I would drop INT & CHA down a few and add to DEX. I would also multi-class this character. I don't see any point in having a fighter higher than level 4.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I think my biggest problem was my low dexterity for my fighters. I started a new game with higher dex and it's been much easier.

Why is a fighter no longer useful after level 4, and what would you suggest multi-classing to?

Opalescence · Post by **Opalescence** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:52 pm

At the lowest levels, having a monk with beast claw is one of the best things. You can't use weapons with beast claw, I think, but as everyone knows Monks don't use weapons. Slap the collar on your Monk, make him cast beast claw, and suddenly he's a whole lot more effective!

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:54 pm

my monk uses weapons...

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:38 am

[QUOTE=rebel3_6_1]Why is a fighter no longer useful after level 4, and what would you suggest multi-classing to?[/QUOTE]
It's not that he/she wouldn't be useful, it's just that you obtain the main advantage in the Fighter class after 4 levels which is the ability to take Weapon Specialization. IMO, the only reason of taking Fighter levels is to get Weapon Specialization, additional hit points and extra feats. If any of my characters take Fighter levels, it is never more than four. The first level of Fighter is good because you get an extra feat, additional hit points (compared to like a mage or rogue) and you get all base weapon profiencies except for bastard sword. 2nd level Fighter gets you another feat and additional hps again. 3rd level doesn't get you nothing but additional hps. 4th level is where the fighter caps, IMO. By 4th level, you've received 3 extra feats and the ability to take Weapon Specialization and you've gotten some good hps. As for multi-classing, you can pretty much pick whatever you want. Looking back at your team, you have 2 mages, 1 cleric, 1 theif and 1 tank. If you fighter is lawfully good, you could turn him into a Paladin. Since the Shield Dwarf's favorite class being a Fighter, there wouldn't be any XP penalties. You could also drop him completely and pick up a pure Monk. I'm playing one right now and he's pretty good.

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:42 am

[QUOTE=Opalescence]At the lowest levels, having a monk with beast claw is one of the best things. You can't use weapons with beast claw, I think, but as everyone knows Monks don't use weapons. Slap the collar on your Monk, make him cast beast claw, and suddenly he's a whole lot more effective![/QUOTE]
A monk can use weapons, it's just that at higher levels, he/she is more effective fighting bare handed. My level 6 Deep Gnome Monk is weilding a two-handed axe right now. Wearing no armor and having an AC of 24, she's holding her own against Orcs. As a matter of fact, I have a Human Monk 1/Fighter 2/Druid 5 with no armor weilding a two-handed great sword. With a strength of 18, he has the most kills of the party.

Dreez · Post by **Dreez** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:36 pm

I`ve played IWD2 for a few years now and i find it very easy, infact TO easy.
The first time i came to the Ice Castle i got stuck and quit playing, the 2:nd
time i got started again i came to the middle of the Severed Hand where i
lost my "mission" and got stuck..

Now when im playing i can basically run through the Ice Castle and not even
the fight against the 6 lost followers are hard. I always run the game in
"normal" mode to keep the D&D rules , but i have never came across any
fight that has been to tough.
My most common setup is the following:
Fighter Heavy Armor s/s , H/s.
Barbarian Greatsword/Axe.
Cleric for Curses/Buffs.
Cleric for Heal/Buffs.
1Ranger/xx Rogue, Trapps, scouting & Anti Mage.
Sorcerer setup towards taking out specific targets with all kinds of Charms,
Hold monster/person, Sleep. Also VERY HIGH Charisma = Finger of Death on
really anoying enemy spellcasters.

When all Buffs are cast on my 4 frontliners, every fight is over before the
first timer of "Greater Haste" has run out. I slaughtered the 6 followers
like nothing and the only char that got really hurt was my thief .

The best tactic that not many realize is that the FIRST thing you should
always do is to get atleast 2 of your heavy hitters hasted and send them
on all the enemy mages. That can & will save you ALOT of pain and time.

I just resently got myself access to these forums since IWD-2 has not beenthat interessting to me untill now when i´ve started to experiment with
"diffrent" character/party setups , so i will start to make more posts about
strategis & chars in time.