Saving throw

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:30 am

Simple question : what is this based on? I lose to some characters every single time because I fail this throw. The Manual babbles on about taking a saving throw but won't tell me what it consists of!

Drakosha · Post by **Drakosha** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:38 am

it's very simple. there is 3 Save Throws:
1) Rexlex is based on DEX. usualy used in checks on traps,area spells...
2) Fortitude is beased on CON. used in checks on poinsons,death magic and devastating crits.
3) Will is based on WIS. used in vesing mind spells,illusions.

in all thouse throws there is Critical failer = 1 and critical success = 20. if your dice = 1 that means you failed Save throw. for example versing Devastating crit. you save let's say 53,my Devastating DC = 50. that means only when you dice 1 on saves you'll die,beouse it's Critical failer.

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:33 am

Now that's weird. There's a certain section where I die every single time. I've tried variation after variation, and I still die. I can only presume that that particular bit has a throw based on my DEX which is very low. Otherwise I can't explain it as it occurs every singe time this one creature tries this one thing (can't remember how to do Blacked out words, can you guess?

)

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:05 am

Try checking the feedback in the chatbox - it should say which throw you make and the result of the throw.

Opalescence · Post by **Opalescence** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:46 pm

Hmm, I guess my understanding was wrong after all. I had thought that you saving throw is the amount you ADD to your dice roll. So, if you roll a 7 for a reflex save, and you have a saving throw of 4, your final tally is 7 + 4 = 11. If the DC (difficulty class) of the trap/fireball/whatever is 10, then you've made your saving throw. If it was 12, then you didn't. Was that wrong?

Admo · Post by **Admo** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:08 pm

[QUOTE=Drakosha]it's very simple. there is 3 Save Throws:
1) Rexlex is based on DEX. usualy used in checks on traps,area spells...
2) Fortitude is beased on CON. used in checks on poinsons,death magic and devastating crits.
3) Will is based on WIS. used in vesing mind spells,illusions.

in all thouse throws there is Critical failer = 1 and critical success = 20. if your dice = 1 that means you failed Save throw. for example versing Devastating crit. you save let's say 53,my Devastating DC = 50. that means only when you dice 1 on saves you'll die,beouse it's Critical failer.[/QUOTE]

Aren't saving throws taken from your class? IE, the same way that BAB is taken from your class. I remember reading in the HotU manual each class has "high" and "low" saving throws, and these increase at a rate dependant on class. So I'm guessing that is true, but there are bonuses to this from Dex, Con, and Wis, and things like dodge AC modifiers etc

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:22 pm

[QUOTE=Opalescence]Hmm, I guess my understanding was wrong after all. I had thought that you saving throw is the amount you ADD to your dice roll. So, if you roll a 7 for a reflex save, and you have a saving throw of 4, your final tally is 7 + 4 = 11. If the DC (difficulty class) of the trap/fireball/whatever is 10, then you've made your saving throw. If it was 12, then you didn't. Was that wrong?

[/QUOTE]

That is correct.

However, some spells still do damage even if you make your savethrow.
It just does less or some deadly component is negated.

[QUOTE=Admo]Aren't saving throws taken from your class? IE, the same way that BAB is taken from your class. I remember reading in the HotU manual each class has "high" and "low" saving throws, and these increase at a rate dependant on class. So I'm guessing that is true, but there are bonuses to this from Dex, Con, and Wis, and things like dodge AC modifiers etc[/QUOTE]

That is also correct.
If you check the manual you will be able to see the shaving throw progression for classes, but as you also says yourself, bonus to CON, DEX and WIS - along with bonus' from feats - will be added to your shavethrow.

Drakosha · Post by **Drakosha** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:33 am

[QUOTE=Opalescence]Hmm, I guess my understanding was wrong after all. I had thought that you saving throw is the amount you ADD to your dice roll. So, if you roll a 7 for a reflex save, and you have a saving throw of 4, your final tally is 7 + 4 = 11. If the DC (difficulty class) of the trap/fireball/whatever is 10, then you've made your saving throw. If it was 12, then you didn't. Was that wrong?

[/QUOTE]
Correct,but there is always BUT.

. if your saving throw was 12 and you'll dice 1,DC of trap 10 -> 1+12 = 13 > 10,but becouse of dice 1 you'll fail save. cruel world outthere....

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:14 am

But as I fail the saving throw every single time, it would argue that one of my stats is being taken as a base, and that is so low, I will fail the saving throw. That's how I understand it. However, as I don't know which one it is (I can take a guess, but it's only a guess) I don't know of any way of overcoming it. So everytime I run across one of these creatures, I am going to be peculiarly vunerable to it. I cast a Planar Ally, a Dire Tiger and a Dire Spider all before it could get near me, and got lucky with the spider (I have never seen my Dire Tiger taken out so fast!). But of course, lost out on the xp points from having a companion. Hopefully, she'll become more resistant as time goes on.

itchytf · Post by **itchytf** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:40 pm

Well if you read the feedback text in the box it will tell you what saving throw needs to be made (or you failed to make) and at what level. You can always buy items, cast spells, drink potions, get feats etc to increase your saving throws.

The thing that kills you probably just requires a higher saving throw to "dodge" or whatever than you can make. Is it those stupid water elementals? I hate them...

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:25 am

I've tried, but I get this huge amount of information, and then the game come up with the "Load Game" etc. menu. So I can't scroll back through all the stuff to see what it was that killed me. The only writing I can see is "Jano takes a saving roll : fails saving roll", OK, that's not exactly right, but close to it.

She's doing pretty well, it would be useful for future refence though...

Zel Greywords · Post by **Zel Greywords** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:54 pm

Well... to tell you more about your case, it'd be necessary to know which particular monster flavor you battle in that situation. A typical example for saving-throw-failed-and-goodbye would be a Bodak. (a shadowy semitransparent figure) His inherent "Wail Of The Banshee" ability requires you to make a not-so-easy fortitude saving throw - or die on the spot. A typical death magic scenario.

Generally speaking, I first recommend wearing the then-available version of "Cloak Of Protection". Even the "+3" one already does help quite a bit, as it raises all your saving throws by 3. Second, grab the local incarnation of the "Scarab of protection" (Amulet) - it will do the same, but it goes significantly higher than the cloak (up to +10 in the end).

Both are almost always available at the local town merchant - and my characters mostly wear those two items whenever I get into some trouble with special-ability-creatures.

-Zel

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:31 am

A good ability to have on one piece of your equipment is immunity to death magic. That can remove much frustation from the game.

But post which monster you fight that kills you off, and possible you can get more accurate help

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:17 am

OK, sorry, this will give a spoiler to NWN, chapter......1, I think it is.

Setara's house, there is a room with two Water Elementals. I cast (with my hardy Cleric, A/C 31 (I cheated), ring of regeneration, Crown of thorns, 100 or so hit points) War Hammer on one of them and then don't get a chance to cast anything else. One of them gets me with a Drown attack. Even when I reduce one to "Near Death" with my spell, it still hits back (or else the other one gets me). Attacking after firing off the spell doesn't work, because there are two of them. They were immune to my Death spell (or resisted, or maybe my concentration failed.....don't think so though). Anyway, I thought a Cleric should be better with spells than with fighting. She's only strong in that department because I got her some decent weapons and lots of gold. Hey, I've done this game once, I'm just having fun now!

Zel Greywords · Post by **Zel Greywords** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:07 pm

Drown? Hmm a Druid spell... requires a fortitude save. And depending on your CON, yours might be too weak. Easy remedy: buy a fortitude+x ring. You know, there is a beyond-the-gameworld reason why the merchants sell those... namely it is that fortitude saves are a weak point in many classes -and- all the (for players highly annyoing) death magic spells always target fortitude.

Apart from that:
Hey, no need to justify custom items / cheatboosts before me (or anyone for that matter) - after all, you play this game to have fun. And if, for some reason, your character simply does not progress as you anticipated or lacks an ability vital to your personal notion of what he/she is (and what he/she should be able to do), then it's totally fine to implement that missing element yourself - even if that requires going beyond the rule system. I did that myself when I played my re-created Slayers charas, and never regretted it - since that way, they simply came so much closer to what they were supposed to be like.

After all, if this was paper&pen you could simply go and ask the DM - and chances aren't that bad he'd grant you what you need for fleshing out/fixing your chara - and be it indirectly a few sessions later.

-Zel

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:24 am

Oh right! I'm wearing a +9 protection and a rejeneration ring at present (absolute godsend) but I'm sure I could 'find' a fortitude ring somewhere

.

Thanks for that. The cheating thing seems to be a sore point with some people online. I have a friend who is really happy to be playing NWN, but he wanted the ineraction of playing on line very quickly. No problem, he thought, he'd take on a few special items and join up with a group. To a man (or a woman. Or an Elf) they said he couldn't join their group. The reason? He'd 'cheated'. So he's now going through the game (which he is enjoying, don't get me wrong) and he might go back when his character's strong enough. Of course, his girlfriend might refuse to let him out, he's finding his evening's playing a bit curtailed

Zel Greywords · Post by **Zel Greywords** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:06 am

Well yes, as soon as you play with -other- people, things are obviously different. But even so, most online servers impose item limitations on their players anyway, so godlike equipment isn't brought there easily.

Yet, as long as you play solo, there is no rational reason why you shouldn't have as much fun as anyhow possible. Especially when you're playing the second/third/fourth time and basically want to ocus much more on your actual roleplaying than on battles.

And if I play a sorceress who, according to her given profile, has a spell to kill a dragon in a single strike, then you can bet that I will go to quite some lengths to implement that. As I did, and never regretted it.

I even gave her her legendary ultimate spell which is quite likely to kill her (and the rest of the world too, for that matter), but I -did- also implement that danger with a script.
So, although that spell deals basically infinite damage (ok, 100'000 but still) it will, in 8 out of 10 cases, go havoc and obliterate her. Unnecessary to say that I'd honestly have stopped playing if that had ever happened - so accordingly, I never ever used it during the whole playthrough.

Yet, it was vital for her to have it, simply as an option - even if its the ultimate risk. It's all about roleplaying...

-Zel