Wizard Disappointment

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:31 am

Ok, I thought I had come with the ultimate combo for adding a Wizard into my party. Here is what I created:

Crueak Arborshate
Male Drow Chaotic Evil
Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Wizard X
STR 10 DEX 20 CON 10 INT 20 WIS 10 CHA 10
Weapons: Dual Small Blades (Piercing), Quaterstaff (Bludgeoning), Bow (Missile (Piercing))

I am currently heading to the goblin fortress (Chapter 1) and I am sadly disappointed in my Wizard's spells. He is currently Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 5. I have numerous level 1 spells memorized, but only like Magic Missle. I am using a combination of Web and Merif's Acid Arrow as level 2 spells and I just bought Lightening Bolt from the mage lady in Targos. During the bridge escapde, I was squatting him at Wizard 3 and I found myself using him more in melee than spell casting. I would occasionally use him to blast a couple magic missles at orc archers to get them down fast, but other than that he dualed his short swords or battled with his long bow. At what point should I expect my Wiz to be more useful on the Arcane front?

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:04 am

How can you bear this horrible thing....

Lol.. and point was what?

Wizard?!?!?!? WTF? use Sorcerer

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:28 pm

I had choose Wizard b/c the main casting ability comes from INT which coupled with Rogue equals lots of skill points to cover all the skills he needs. And the point was to rant about my disappointment in spells. I have yet to find any 2nd or 3rd level spells yet, the ones I do know, I had to purchase. And in comparison to my Druid with his area effect spells (mainly Entangle & Spike Growth) the Wizard sucks.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:42 pm

[QUOTE=neocool00]I had choose Wizard b/c the main casting ability comes from INT which coupled with Rogue equals lots of skill points to cover all the skills he needs. And the point was to rant about my disappointment in spells. I have yet to find any 2nd or 3rd level spells yet, the ones I do know, I had to purchase. And in comparison to my Druid with his area effect spells (mainly Entangle & Spike Growth) the Wizard sucks.[/QUOTE]

Where are you right now?

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:58 pm

Once you get to level 7, Chromatic Orb becomes excellent, also Mirror Immage is an excellent addition as it protects in combat, as does Blur. For firepower at a distance, I like Aganzars Schorcher. Over 1 round it does 6d6 damage without a saving throw, and can also hit others it you target someone at the rear of a group. For Area damage, Snilloc's Snowball Storm is actually pretty good, it has a large area of affect and a fast casting time, great for large groups of weak opponents. 1st level gems include Sleep (saved me many times), Charm Person (better than an instant death spell), and Grease (trust me on this, it's the best way to keep enemies at a distance at low levels.

Wizards really start to come into their own around 10-12th level with Animate Dead, Chain Lightning, Mass Haste and Disintegrate. Chaos and Malison are also good choices as is good old Fireball. Vitriolic Sphere is also a decent 4th level spell as is stoneskin.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:49 am

Aganazzar's Scorcher is great, indeed! Powerful against undead

I found Stinking could very useful, too, along with Web aaaand Fireball, the ultimate devastating spell

You'll be glad to have a mage in your party very soon. The most powerful characer at higher level, imho.

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:19 am

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Where are you right now?[/QUOTE]
Fighting my way to the Goblin Fortress in Chapter 1.

@Heidrek
I thought Animate Dead was a cleric only spell. Guess I'll have to go back and check that one. I've got web and use it sometimes while my Druid casts Spike Growth, but I prefer Entangle since it slows down enemies as well. I know Fireball rocks, but I haven't found it yet. Also don't recall seeing Scorcher either. I think that's the bad side of using a Wizard is finding spells is scarse. Most of the ones I have, I've bought. I haven't found any level 2 or 3 spells yet except from those that are selling them. Where are all the spells? lol

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:08 am

In goblin fortress.. outside or inside.. but hey i havent played with wizard..
Check every body and container..

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:51 am

Get your druid do the Call Lightning, that's outstanding against multiple enemies! It saved me a couple of battles around the Fortress!

Web must be used carefully, though... It stops your enemies from moving, that's true, but may be an obstacle for you as well when you're running to ruin the war drums.

Using invisibility (potions or spell) will get you near the drums in safety!

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:57 am

[QUOTE=Brynn]Get your druid do the Call Lightning, that's outstanding against multiple enemies! It saved me a couple of battles around the Fortress!

Web must be used carefully, though... It stops your enemies from moving, that's true, but may be an obstacle for you as well when you're running to ruin the war drums.

Using invisibility (potions or spell) will get you near the drums in safety![/QUOTE]
I do like Call Lightning, but I don't like that it's only once per 10 rounds. Of course if it occurred more often, there probably wouldn't be anyone left to fight

As far as the war drums go, I don't really try to knock them out right off the bat. If they cast more creatures, just means more xp. I also don't need to use invisibility because all three of my characters can hide which has made for some interesting fights. Also, now that I'm in the tunnels heading to the fortress, call lightening and entangle can't be used

since they are outdoor spells only. I wish I could still cast entangle. In IWD1 you could cast it indoors.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:05 am

use web... and thorns spray if have it... thorns spray is better than fire ball in lower levels.. well almost..

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:07 am

I don't have thorn spray yet, but I do use web as an acceptable replacement for entangle (which I prefer).

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:49 am

[QUOTE=neocool00]Fighting my way to the Goblin Fortress in Chapter 1.
[/QUOTE]

Well, you don't get any 4th-level spells in the normal game until Chapter 2.

Vanion · Post by **Vanion** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:43 pm

Wizards are generally most useful when multiclassed or using ECL races, as you've done. With only 3 characters, it seems you're progressing too fast for even being 7 levels behind a normal race, single classed wizard...my only advice is to take more advantage of your multiclasses in the meantime, or just be patient.

Because the game doesn't have a huge array of spells and there are a few which unbalance things significantly, sorcerors tend to be much more effective mages on the whole. Not only can they cast more spells per day, but they also have the buff eagle's strength available, while mages don't have access to Fox's Cunning (for some reason, probably skill points additions on level ups). That means the sorceror will have a spell DC bonus of 1-3 for most encounters as well.

The point where a sorceror falls down is in effective multiclassing, since the wizard's requisite intelligence makes it much easier for them to be an effective rogue or warrior - the sorceror only really mixes especially well with paladin or bard. Basically, you'll have enough fun and effectiveness enduring with the build you have for now, since only having to split that cash 3 ways will pay off quickly and get you some handy scrolls.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:56 am

[QUOTE=neocool00] As far as the war drums go, I don't really try to knock them out right off the bat. If they cast more creatures, just means more xp. [/QUOTE]
I always got overwhelmed in these battles so I could do it this way only. But if you're storng enough, why not? Btw, will they ever stop conjuring those riders? For me it seemed to be endless...

[QUOTE=neocool00]
Also, now that I'm in the tunnels heading to the fortress, call lightening and entangle can't be used

since they are outdoor spells only. I wish I could still cast entangle. In IWD1 you could cast it indoors.[/QUOTE]

Good news: cleric spell Static Charge does the same as Call Lightining - indoors as well!

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:43 am

[QUOTE=Brynn]I always got overwhelmed in these battles so I could do it this way only. But if you're storng enough, why not? Btw, will they ever stop conjuring those riders? For me it seemed to be endless...[/QUOTE]
The most I ever had appear was four. I fought all of these battles using a bridge as a choke point. Cast entangle and spike growth and sit back with range weapons. I had one rider appear, then another appear before the first was killed. Then when I had everyone killed except for two archers on a tower and the sharman beating the drum, another one appeared and then another one after that. I guess if you don't take him out w/ the drum, the would just generate inifintely. That was the longest fight for me during that part because I got spotted before I was ready to start fighting.

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:52 am

@Neocool00

I think that your level one spell choices have not been ideal.

Chromatic Orb, Colour Spray and Burning Hands have always been my most used level one spells early on. At level 5 and above, chromatic orb stuns or paralyses a single enemy and is very useful for the heavy hitters with lots of HP (ie. bugbears, ogres). Just gang-up and butcher accordingly.

Colour spray is also very useful. Will either knock unconscious, blind or stun the enemy. Best thing about colour spray is that it requires Will rolls to negate. For fighter type enemies, not many will successfully make their Will saves against this.

Burning hands is useful as many of the more difficult monsters early on are vulnerable to fire. IMO magic missles is not a good choice. Maximum of 25 HP damage to one enemy at level 9 is quite pathetic. Burning hands can deliver a max of 20 (more if enemies are vulnerable to fire) I think and to multiple enemies. Also, burning hands is a better troll killer spell than acid arrow: you'd need one acid arrow per troll, but with burning hands you can often kill a handful in one go.

For level two I'd ditch the acid arrow. But Web is a good choice, esp later on when you get Lloth's Sting (i think it makes you immune to Web).

The Scorcher spell is amazingly effective for a level two spell and you can easily wipe out dozens of orcs in the early stages with a few casts and good positioning. Unfortunately, getting it is a pain. I got it once in a random drop and I don't remember seeing it in the stores.

Mirror Image is great but I normally get it quite late as I normally have good AC. But definitely get this when you have access to skull trap and fireball.

I also like the Electric Loop spell. Damage is not as important as the stun effect. Useful if your wizard becomes swamped by enemies.

Level three onwards is when the wizard starts to rock. Fireball, skull trap, slow, haste etc are useful combat and tactical spells. Later on though, you might want to focus on disabling and conjuring spells.

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:19 pm

I've switched from Magic Missle to Chromatic Orb. I don't think I've found Color Spray yet, but I belive Ulbrec's wife sells it. I like Acid Arrow as it helps bringing down Orc Archers quickly.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:57 pm

Best way to avoid being swamped by multiple enemies ans subsequently butchered? Three low level spells: Sleep, Horror and Hold Person. All arcane casters have access to Horror and Sleep, while Bards also get Hold Person at level 2. Against low level creatures Sleep will take at least one down, target it at a group of archers on a tower, or right in the middle of a melee your fighters are caught up in. It has NO SAVE but will only get one or two creatures. Once they are asleep concentrate on the ones still awake then gang up on one sleeping creature at a time.

Horror is great at low levels. the +3 will save doesn't make much difference as the saves are very low at that stage. Of course if you took Spell Focus: Necromancy then this becomes only +1. Good area of affect, quick to cast and no limit to how many creatures it can affect. Panicing a few members of a horde is often the difference between life and death, plus your back line casters can fire them off turn atfer turn and it wont affect your party.

Hold Person is also great for Clerics and Bards. Casting time is a little high, and it only affects 1-4 targets, but anyone you sucessfully hit with it is essentially dead. They cant move or fight back and the duration is good so you can leave them to the end of the fight.

The key here is that they all affect one or more targets in a good area, have fast casting times and do not affect your party. This allows you to cast them freely no matter how close the enemy is.

Got one very tough opponent giving you trouble? Have everyone who can cast Charm Person on them. A Charmed opponent is better than dead as he will fight for you. Druids, Bards, Wizards and Sorcerors all have access to Chram spells, although I wouldn't recomend having your Sorc. take it as it's pretty useless later and only hits one opponent. Save it for your Bard and Druid.

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:19 am

Totally agree that hold person is a great spell to have. Horror is good as well. Both spells continue to be useful for most of the game. I didn't mention it because I use a Bane cleric to cast these (who usefully has hold spells at level 2). I don't use sleep because it quickly becomes less useful and a prefer to use colour spray (which knocks those with low die HP unconscious anyway). Anything that takes enemies out of the battle temporarily is a good things and those that convert them to fight for your side is even better.

I thought that charm person does not convert an enemy to fight for you. It just stops fighting you. I thought that you need dire charm for that (of course, dominate is even better) - which my Bane cleric has.

Acid arrow - doesn't that just deal d8 damage per round for a number of rounds? That's ok to start with but is next to useless later on when enemies have 100+ HP and just heal themselves. Much better to stun/hold etc them, send in the heavies to gang butcher them. 3 or 4 characters pummelling a stunned / held orc archer will hit every round and is bound to exceed d8 damage per round. Plus the powerless enemies can't deal damage back to you. I'd take Horror over the Acid Arrow any day. If you can find it Scorcher is excellent. With good positioning you can wipe out a whole line of those Orc Archers.