Questions about spells' DC and monk equipment

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:14 am

Firstly, a quick question. What is the DC rule for cast spells? Does it increase with character levels like the monk's stunning fist attack. Or is it some fixed number + level of the spell + int / cha bonus?

Secondly, this is the first time I am determined to see a monk character through to the end of the game in normal and eventually in HOF mode. Previously I'd given up in a 5-6 member party and replaced with a conventional warrior build - just too many nice weapons I wanted to try! Also, in a larger party, my monk's fist enchantment (or lack of) was frustating as he advances in levels slowly. So, my party is now made up of 1 drow monk, 1 drow mask cleric (1st time playing Mask) and 1 deep gnome illusionist (1st time playing deep gnome wizard too): surprisingly it has been very easy so far! Currently in the ice temple at about level 11 and still having no problems. Anyway, my question is: what monk specific items can I expect in normal and HOF mode - I don't want to miss them! I already have the black raven sash (and I know that HOF has some upgrade for this, but don't remember the details).

Many thanks.

Vanion · Post by **Vanion** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:57 am

The DC for any spell is 10 + Spell level + Caster's primary attribute + misc.

By primary attribute, I mean the one which determines your base and bonus spells, so it's the one which all your spellcasting is based upon.

For Bards and Sorcerors, this is Charisma.

For Clerics and Druids, this is Wisdom.

For Wizards and Specialist Wizards, this is Intelligence.

That's the basic determination for any spell DC, except I haven't explained the miscellaneous part. This is mostly feats such as Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, and class/race based abilities like the Dreadmaster of Bane's Special ability, Tyrant's Dictum, which gives him a +1 to the DC of all Enchantment Spells.

For monk specific equipment, I can't help you, unfortunately. Off the top of my head, I've heard of a pair of monk bracers that give +1 attack per round, but I don't know if that's a Heart of Fury or normal difficulty item. Other than that, I think that there isn't a great abundance of monk specific equipment.

One tip I can think of for your monk is to hold on to any special daggers or staves for enemies whose damage reduction you can't bypass. Sure, it won't be so flash for some encounters, but in general your rate of attack and damage on foes without damage reduction will make up for the few who do.

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:29 am

Thanks for the DC reply. And yes, I was thinking just of wiz and sorc as examples when I mentioned int / cha bonuses. Your info will be useful when I comet o decide if I should multiclass my cleric and/or my wizard later on.

Agreewith the second point. My monk has a few reserve weapons in case his fists lack the necessary enchantment level or if the enemy has high crushing weapon damage resistance. In a 3 member party he is just fine though as he levels up so quickly. Fists now have +1 enchantment and will soon have +2 enchantment. My better normal melee weapons tend to be +1 at the moment and I only have a couple +2 ones, so his fists are comparable - for now at least. Monk's fast movement speed is amazing enemies just play follow the enemy while I run circles around them. Meanwhile everyone on my team just butchers them. Anyway, will look out for the +1 attack bracer.

Vanion · Post by **Vanion** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:35 am

Cool. Oh, I forgot that paladin and ranger spell DCs are regulated by wisdom as well. About multiclassing casters, in general I would avoid multiclassing to another kind of spellcaster. If you do multiclass them, take some rogue or warrior levels, as the benefits are generally far greater.

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:00 am

I was thinking of multiclassing my cleric either to a druid or rogue (i've done both before). Am leaning more in favour of the druid as that is a lot of fun.

As for my wizard, I would either go single class or multiclass to a rogue. All depends on how I think I will prefer to play in the late game.

Thanks.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:09 am

[QUOTE=Vanion]Dreadmaster of Bane's Special ability, Tyrant's Dictum, which gives him a +1 to the DC of all Enchantment Spells.[/QUOTE]

That +1 DC is for Will save spells.. so any spell that has will save on it gets that +1 DC..

Dont dual class Cleric with Druid.. personally i would give few wizard/sorcerer levels so that he/she could cast mirror image..

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:06 am

Are there any non-enchantment spells that require will saves? I thought that all will save spells were the enchantment type - but then again I don't know my spells as well as I should. I love playing the Banite Cleric too - maybe I should have another look at the cleric spells again.

Unfortunately, I don't have the option of dualling to wiz or sorc because I've got sub 10 intelligence / charisma. Anyway, my cleric already has mirror image as part of her domain spells if she needs it. If need be, I also use the minor image one as well when mirror image runs out and she is still getting swamped by monsters ( and e.g. my gnomish wizard chucks a fireball or two while she runs around with multiple images ).

I have used a cleric / mage build before in a larger party: great fun. But I don't plan to rely too much on mirror image strategy for melee protection this time round esp since she's my only healer / prime summoner in the party of 3 that I'm playing. And I plan to take the party to HOF. From what I recall of HOF, all enemies just seem to tear down your mirror images in record time. I still remember my stoneskinned, mirror imaged, blurred, invisible etc sorceror getting surrounded once and torn to pieces. Not pleasant stuff.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:00 am

As for your low int/cha... raising those abiltys while levelling is realistic but futile way.. so i would recomend using program called DaleKeeper 2. With it you can remove few points in abilty A and put those to ablity B.

(if you dont have it here is link)

http://www.fileplanet.com/files/130000/138504.shtml

Here is few tips for HoF..(wanted or not)

When you get to HoF i would recomend adding one sorc/wizard to your party. Why? well when you have these chars you can get more summoned moster in less time. And this is quite good thing also when you are using Malisson and Wail of Banshee together.. this combo truly makes your life lot easier in HoF.

An dont worry for your new party member.. becuse earlier chapters really arent that bad +he/she will level up quite quickly.

Shadows · Post by **Shadows** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:29 am

Hi

The bracers give an extra attack per round for the Monk so should be worth getting. If my memory serves the bracers are in one of the chests in the yuan-ti Temple Treasure Room

Shadows

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:41 am

the two monk-specific items are:

Sash of Black Raven (+1 to hit & immunity to confusion in normal mode, +2 to hit & immunity to whole bunch of mind-affecting spells in HoF) - for sale in Targos.

Bracers of Lighning Strike (1 extra attack/round in normal mode, 2/round in HoF) - found in Yan-ti temple.

The problem is, BOTH are not very useful for pure monks. (The will saves + spell resistance cover the spell immunities, and by the time your AC is high enough for NOT wearing Bracers of Armor you'll have maxed out the attacks/round you can make)

however, these items are VERY useful for multi-classed monks, focused in some other class. I've had a couple of very successfull builds implementing these items:

monk1/druidX (half-decent shapeshift forms, but mostly spellcaster & ranged attacker, relying on the Bracers for the extra attack, and the Big Death throwing axe)
rogue3/monk3/ranger3/fighterX (superb duel-weilding scout/magekiller with the monk-only items)
monk3/fighter4/paladinX (defence-oriented tank, with insanely high saves and immunities)
monk1/paladin2/clericX (un-interruptable healer/battlefield organizer, with self-buffing melee capabilities)

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:14 am

I have Dalekeeper but only used it once. I try to resist using it - want to do things the harder way!

Thanks for the HOF tip. Actually, it never occurred to me to generate another character! I think that's because I always brought over 6 (or maybe 5) members to HOF. Yes, maybe I will do that. Will think about what I want closer to the time.

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:18 am

Thanks for the item tips.

@Mirk

That bit about the bracers and multi-classing is most interesting. Might now consider dual classing the monk at a later stage!

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:34 am

just to clarify:

multiclassing a char who will focus on monk levels, and will fight mostly unarmed, is generally not a good idea, since most monk abilities are dependant on monk levels. there are a couple of classes that might contribute to an unarmed monk level builds, if you take minor levels in:

ranger 1 - free duel-weilding and martial weapons, for the times when monk's fists don't have the enchantment to hit, +1 to hit/damage vs. some monsters group (not to shabby in the first chapter, when every point counts)

rogue 1-3 - more skill points, minor sneak attack, uncanny dodge, good class-specific items

paladin 2 - fear immunity (you won't have the Cha for a bonus anyway, not that you need it with a monk)

fighter 1-2 - free feats of your choice

wizard 1-3 - free feat, minor (but usefull) protection spells, scrolls, a decent Wizard-only cloack

druid or cleric 1-3 - minor spellcasting (not as usefull as mage's, but wizdom-based), class-specific items.

still, all these builds will probably not use the-monk specific items, for the reasons stated in the post above.

now, taking a few (1-3) monk levles by a char that will focus on other things will enable him to utilize these items better. cosider taking 1 monk level for a spellcaster, 3 for a melee char.