Druid sumons - where can I find detailed info?

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:43 am

Does anyone know where I might find some detailed info on Druid summon nature ally? I recall seeing somewhere somebody having experimented with wizard summoning spells at various levels up to level 30 (to see what was summoned by a particualr spell and to see if the same spell yielded better / different results at higher character levels).

From playing the druid in the past, all I remember is thinking that the elemental beings are at the top of the food chain and some rodents at the very bottom. Then there are some snakes and bears in the middle.

I realise that cleric and wiz/sorc will probably have the better summon spells in the end with the likes of shades,gate and animate undead. But am planning on not using a cleric or a wiz/sorc the next time I play and using a druid instead. Thanks.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:46 am

I am sorry that i have no info about this matter... but perhaps you should try out and see by your self? And then creating your own druid summon tree.. if now one else has done this..

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:55 pm

I've experimented a little with this and here's what I found. the Summon Natures Ally spells level 7 and 8 each summon either an elemental or two, or a group of Polar Bears (up to 4). This can be handy, but getting Elemntals is actually a pain at times because they attack you unless you have prot. from evil. as Druids cant cast Prot. Evil this can be a pain. At levels 4-6 you normally get a bear of some description from brown to cave or dire bear. At levels 1 to 3 you get a selection of wolves, snakes, dogs and so on.

The good thing about these spells is that they have a quick casting time compared to other summons, so they can be cast during combat reasonably easily.

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:01 am

Thanks Heidrek

Experimented a little last night too

Seems that your character level has little if any impact on the SNA spell outcomes. I found that elementals only come out with level 8 or 9 - you seem to get the elder type at level 9 and normal ones at level 8.

Level 1 seems to summon some kind of rodent or cat / dog. Level 2 summons are better with snake or wolf -seems to have better AC, damage but not much more HP than level 1 - however, sometimes you get a dog which is the same as level 1. Level 3 is more useful and you do get some black bears but I find that too often you can also get level 2 summon creatures as well.

Memory is a bit hazy this morning but I remember thinking that level 4-6 are the best ones. Dire Wolf seems the 'best' level 4 summon, Worg (some kind of upgraded wolf) is the 'best' level 5 (but seems only marginally more effective than a Dire Wolf) and Dire bear is the 'best' level 6 summon. I found level 7 a bit rubbish as you typically get a few level 6 summons - polar bears being the most common. I set a Dire Bear against multiple polar bears and was more impressed with the Dire bear. Would have been nice to get a few Dire Bears.

I guess if I were playing I'd use the Conjure Animals level 5 spell. Mountain bears seem to wipe the floor with all the level 5 SNA summons. Also, would consider using Giant Vermin at very high levels (4th level spell). Somewhere between 15 and 30 character levels you get the giant beatle monster that you sometimes fight in the battle squares arena. It's OK in melee but seems to have loads of HP in normal mode so I guess it would also be useful fodder in HOF. Since I think level 7 SNA is not all that, might use creeping doom instead. Had a couple of fights between a dire bear and creeping doom and the latter won both times. Not sure if it was luck so I'll try again and pay more attention to the message box. Damage done by creeping doom is irregular. Sometimes it's a pathetic 5 piercing damage and sometimes you get 30+ (maybe that's a critical hit).

When I have more time I'm going to have a cleric and druid use their summons to battle it out so that I have a better idea of how the druid compares.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:13 am

For me now druid summons sound lot better than cleric ones.. but both have giant vermin.. well i have found my new fafourite summon spell.. havent used that in combat yet.. but still.. that bug is one damn big bug...

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:27 am

And now a full-on level 20-30 Ranger with level 4-6 spells looks to be a bit better than before. Doesn't make a difference if a druid or ranger casts Giant Vermin - you still get the same thing at a given level it seems. The giant beetle's size can be quite useful in some cases I'd imagine. You can build a barricade around the enemy with giant beetles and rain missles at them with you're ranger or blockade a corridor / doorway while your ranger retreats and hides in the shadows (once out of range).

Ranger can also summon a fire elemental at levels 29 -30, so I suppose in some situations that's better than the dire bear SNA6 outcome or conjure animals. I know that you need protection from evil but that's hardly a problem if you have the potion for that or someone else can cast it. I suppose if you were soloing you could take a level of cleric.

Now I think I'll take a ranger the next time I play. Should be interesting - never taken one all the way.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:59 pm

The Rhinocerous Bettle you get from Giant Vermin is HUGE. It generally does about 20 damage per hit but only seems to hit 2 or maybe 3 times per round. In general I found it was more usefuk getting 4 Polar bears than an elemental or 2 from SNA7-8. This is because you effectively get 4 times the attacks! Having 4 Bears attack someone with 3 attacks each per round is pretty handy. They make great wizard killers! I wish we got a little more variation in the summonings though.