fable's Q&A on classical music

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:57 pm

I've just recently been at two spectacullar concerts- A Daniel Barenboim recital of Beethoven Sonatas and Brahms' first symphony and Violin Concerto.
Both were amazing, I was so awed by the presence of a world renowned soloist a few meters away from me. I was at a YoYo Ma concert once, but he wasn't the main event (he was playing John Williams' beautiful Cello concerto).
And with Brahms, all I could say is- you could see why it took him 20 years to complete his work.

Volk · Post by **Volk** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:31 pm

Concerto Grosso by Vivaldi or Marrige of Figaro by Mozart are great fast pieces, and their not hard to find. Or for something slower with a lot of quick notes and moves you can try Camile Saint-Sens Danse Macabre.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:02 pm

Gents, please keep this thread to questions about classical music, okay? If you want to offer your opinions of works, let's by all means start another thread for that.

blake · Post by **blake** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:08 pm

Can you tell me of some similar pieces that sound like this or are considerably
mopey?

That particualr piece is by Shostavich(sp?) and i really love it, if you can suggest some similar artists i would appreciate it.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:54 pm

That definitely wasn't Shostakovich. I can't say I've heard it before, but it sounds from some internal phrasing like one of the many short violin display pieces written by Fritz Kreisler. Most of Kreisler's work tends to be more positive in mood, however.

Are you simply looking for something that sounds very emotionally depressing? If so, I'd recommend several of Tchaikovsky's works, including the Romeo and Juliet Overture and, above all, the Sixth Symphony. If you want something on a more intimate scale, you might want to consider some of the early piano music of Debussy, such as his Clair de lune and Girl with the Flaxen Hair. Both of these pieces have also been arranged for violin and piano, if that's what you want, as well.

Explain a little more about what you're looking for, an I'll try to help out. Hopefully, this is a start.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm

Oh! Two composers I would suggest without reservation to you are Gerald Finzi and Robin Milford. Both were first-half-of-the-20th-century English types; in fact, they were good friends. And no, not like that.

Finzi's music exemplifies a kind of sweetly solemn nobility, with a sharp undercurrent of melancholy. The melancholy is still more pronounced in Milford, where it really hits black depression at times. Finzi was a man with a deep spiritual core (agnostic, as far as I can tell; that doesn't matter) who didn't falter despite the general preoccupation of the critics and music establishment with serial music at that time. Milford, alas, couldn't handle it. He attempted suicide several times, and finally succeeded. There are excellent releases by both on such labels as Hyperion and Chandos. Check out the Tower Records website just to listen to the first minute or so of a number of works by them, and judge for yourself.

blake · Post by **blake** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:16 pm

Im looking for something with alot of piano in it, and then some cello or violin, oh and something with a depressing mood to it. I will check those composers you named now, thanks a bunch.

JazzyAnna · Post by **JazzyAnna** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:35 am

@fable
Have you ever heard Introduction, Dance and Furioso, by Herbert Couf? It's not really classical since it was written in 1959 for saxophone. But it is a beautiful piece. Just wondering.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:18 pm

[QUOTE=JazzyAnna]@fable
Have you ever heard Introduction, Dance and Furioso, by Herbert Couf? It's not really classical since it was written in 1959 for saxophone. But it is a beautiful piece. Just wondering.[/QUOTE]

Can't say I've heard anything by Couf. I know he's a Detroit saxophonist and teacher, but not much else. Frankly, I'm glad there are more composers showing up whom I haven't heard of, because it means classical music is alive and changing, once more. It's growing.

The date of composition doesn't determine whether a work is classical or not. It's true that for much of the 20th century, classical music was largely a retrospective art, due to the overwhelming influence of academic serialism. This isn't a snark at serial composers, but rather at the hidebound mentality, lock-step uniformity, and dogmatic insistence on theirs being the only true *modern* classical music, that predominated for so long in much of the profession. I've known composers of diatonic music who eventually took up other careers because the fellowships, awards and jobs were being given by serialists to serialists.

Since the late 1980s, though, the situation has changed drastically. Even some of the serialist ranks have been broken, with composers like Penderecki turning out neo-romantic works. All styles are in, once again. This is a very good thing for the art, which (like modern painting) was too long stuck on admiring itself and sneering at the public.

JazzyAnna · Post by **JazzyAnna** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:39 pm

[QUOTE=fable]The date of composition doesn't determine whether a work is classical or not. [/QUOTE]
I know that, I was going to say classical, but I thought I might be wrong since it isn't from the Classical Era. Sorry.

But anyway, it is a really cool piece. I'm playing it for Solo and Ensemble Festival.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

[QUOTE=JazzyAnna]I know that, I was going to say classical, but I thought I might be wrong since it isn't from the Classical Era. Sorry.

But anyway, it is a really cool piece. I'm playing it for Solo and Ensemble Festival.[/QUOTE]

I've been hunting around, but can't find a recording of the piece. I suspect it hasn't made it onto CD, yet. It's much harder in the CD era to get modern classical music on recordings, although the price for making CDs, paradoxically, is much less than it was for making LPs. The grip on distribution that a few monopolistic retailers (who have been convicted of price fixing in the past) possess is a contributing factor, I suspect. Another is the way the US federal government has gutted public foundations. Back on LP, you could find such labels as CRI and the Louisville Orchestra.

In any case, good luck with that.

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:48 am

Adolphé Adam's "Giselle." Supposedly composed by about 10 people, but he's got his name on it. I know I'm a big lugnut, but that one tears me to pieces emotionally. I saw it performed by the Bolshoi before I freaked out in the mid 80s, and every time I hear it, I'm reminded of my my previos, purer self.
Fable, you big dip,

I should have known you had a thread like this out there.

My hat is off again.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:15 pm

Thanks, @Moonbiter! From time to time I still get PMs about classical music, and this seems like a good clearinghouse for all questions on the subject. Gods know, I've wasted enough time on it in reallife.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:51 pm

What with the "anything but classical" thread that Chanak's started up, it seemed like a good idea to dust off this thread and get it active, again. I'm here to answer any of your genuine questions about classical music, if I can.

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:00 am

Allrighty then.

1) what would you reccomend for a guy that wants shudders, I like Dies Irea in Mozarts requiem, it is just so powerful that the hair on my neck rises.
But I haven't really found anything elso of the sort. I am going to see (hear) Mahler's 8th symphony (the symphony of a thousand voices) in may, but that is about what I got. I like powerful choires.

PS, I also know about beethovens 5th, but I am not to fond of that.

2) do you also know of any music similar to bach's air? Somethi8ng which is good to relax to?

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:41 am

[QUOTE=Yeltsu]1) what would you reccomend for a guy that wants shudders, I like Dies Irea in Mozarts requiem, it is just so powerful that the hair on my neck rises. But I haven't really found anything elso of the sort. I am going to see (hear) Mahler's 8th symphony (the symphony of a thousand voices) in may, but that is about what I got. I like powerful choires.[/quote]

So you're looking for something chorla that's powerful and foreboding? Because most of Mozart's Requiem isn't foreboding, at all. So if you can settle for only a smaller section of a larger work fitting that requirement, try Verdi's Requiem. The Dies Irae in it has a powerful fury about it that should please. You might also try Szymanowski's Stabat Mater. The effect there is less foreboding, more of a powerful but eerie quiet.

And what is it about the Dies Irae in Mozart's Requiem that does this, for you? Not a generalized feeling, but if you can, timbral specifics. Does it have to be choral, in a minor key, etc?

PS, I also know about beethovens 5th, but I am not to fond of that.

Okay, but to help you out further, it would help me to know why you like the Mozart Requiem, and not the Beethoven Fifth. Because you obviously don't want to spend money on a recommendation you're not going to enjoy.

2) do you also know of any music similar to bach's air? Somethi8ng which is good to relax to?

Quite a few things, but they're always small sections of much larger pieces. That one is simply a popular excerpt from one of his large Orchestral Suites, usually performed in a modern arrangement. Have you tried the so-called "Pachelbel's Kanon?" He actually wrote several dozen, but if you look around the Web for Pachelbel, it's one particular kanon that will show up.

It became something of a pop classical hit back in the 1970s, and has something of the mood you want. You might also look for an orchestral arrangement of Bach's "Sheep will safely graze," a movement from one of his cantatas, which is extremely popular. Let me know if these recommendations work out; if so, I can provide you with many others.

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:37 am

I don't really know why I like Mozart's requiem so much, I think it is because it is a great piece of work when you listen to it all, if you know what I mean? I especially like Dies Irae, mostly because of the phenominal beginning that raises the hairs on my neck and makes me shudder.

I haven't listnened to bethoven's 5th in a long time, but as far as I remember it doesn't have any choirwork(?) I really enjoy choirs in that kind of music.

Sorry that I don't have any more information as to why I like Mozart's Requiem, I am not too well versed in musical consepts

I'll ask my father about those pieces you mentioned, he has a quite nice classical collection.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:10 am

[QUOTE=Yeltsu]I don't really know why I like Mozart's requiem so much, I think it is because it is a great piece of work when you listen to it all, if you know what I mean?[/quote]

No. That's why I asked you. There are only over a hundred thousand classical works, of which several thousand are regarded by different people as "great." If I knew what you meant, I wouldn't have tried to acquire an explanation.

You might like the Mozart Requiem because of the voices. You might like it because of the use of the minor key. You may like it because of its unrelieved gloom. You may like it because of the cathedral ambience in your recording, or the orchestration. You may like it because the rest of the work builds to it. You may like it because you associate it with death, or with medieval monks, or Mozart's own death. I don't know, you see.

None of this requires a knowledge of classical critical terminology--just a look into yourself about what makes you like something when you're listening to it.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 am

[QUOTE=Yeltsu]I don't really know why I like Mozart's requiem so much, I think it is because it is a great piece of work when you listen to it all, if you know what I mean? [/QUOTE]

I also think Mozart's requiem is a great piece of work, but I don't like it anyway. When I assess the piece in pure musical terms, ie music as a subject, music history, music theory, my assessment is that it's a fine work. According to my personal, subjective taste though, it's an uninteresting work, I find it static. So there are many reasons why one like or dislike a certain piece of music.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:31 am

[QUOTE=C Elegans]I also think Mozart's requiem is a great piece of work, but I don't like it anyway. When I assess the piece in pure musical terms, ie music as a subject, music history, music theory, my assessment is that it's a fine work. According to my personal, subjective taste though, it's an uninteresting work, I find it static. So there are many reasons why one like or dislike a certain piece of music.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much my response. For example, much of JS Bach's music is extremely well-constructed, and draws rapturous accolades, but I find most of it (with a very sharp exceptions) boring and overly obvious in its concentration on technique. This also applies to the Mozart Requiem, for me, at least, but I can understand what other people find extremely attractive in either Bach, or the Requiem.