Best merchants to sell to?

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:04 am

I'm wondering if there are any merchants that buy your goods for more than other merchants.

As far as I can tell, nothing changes what a merchant will pay you for what you're selling - not charisma, not reputation. That affects how much they'll -charge- you for buying -their- stuff, but what they pay you seems to be constant.

The exception is that there are some merchants in chapter 5 that seem to pay a little more or less. I did most of my checking based on what they offered for a rogue stone. Most merchants in Shadows of Amn offer 1500 gold for one. One of the merchants in the drow city pays a bit less - 1250. The dark gnome merchant in the main cavern pays a bit more - 1750. The sahuagin merchant in the sahuagin city pays a LOT more - 2500 - definetly the best merchant I've found in the game so far to sell stuff to, but sadly you can only get him for a very limited amount of time.

Has anyone noticed if there are any other merchants that are better than average in Amn itself? I'm particularly interested in a merchant accessible in Chapter 6. I've checked the Copper Coronet, Adventurer's Mart and Trademeet, and they all seem to be buying a rogue stone for 1500. I'm hoping there's at least a 1750 somewhere, cause if not I'm reloading so I can sell all my Chapter 5 stuff to the dark gnome in the Underdark. (hey - trying to get complete spellbooks for me, Aerie -and- Imoen gets expensive!)

If there are any links to any other threads discussing this, please let me know. I looked and I couldn't find any.

Qwinn

me0w · Post by **me0w** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:21 am

By chapter 5 money should no longer be an issue, you should have an abundance of the shinies.

"(hey - trying to get complete spellbooks for me, Aerie -and- Imoen gets expensive!)"

Well, you have Imoen. A thief. ... ... Go buy some potions of master thievery and perception. (I always carry as many as I can with me) then get imeons thievery up to 60-80 through potions. Then go to Ribald's Adventuring Mart, then go to that woman at the back of the shop, pot up, and get stealing!

Miser · Post by **Miser** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:35 pm

The only way to answer your question is to go through every merchant in the game, but that's inefficient. You can get more with your time by using it to acquire more sellable items than by experimenting with merchants. Aside from having to test each merchant individually, there may be also a multitude of other variables (item type, overall party alignment, time of day, etc) involved in determining the selling price. Accurate testing would require more time than it is worth.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:36 pm

You're not going to be able to get "complete" spellbooks for Jan and Aerie because firstly Jan can't cast Necromatic magic and secondly both of them have INT 16, which means they can only have a certain number of spells inscribed in their spell books per level (the exact number escapes me - check the manual for the details).

As for money - I've found that by Chapter 6 you are rolling in cash - provided you are miserly and pick up all the treasure you can - this includes stuff baddies drop which usually only sells for 1gp. All those leather armours add up!

And don't spend your cash buying shinies, you'll (usually) find nicer stuff off powerful baddies.

Cheers,
TGHO

Miser · Post by **Miser** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:49 pm

[QUOTE=The Great Hairy]You're not going to be able to get "complete" spellbooks for Jan and Aerie because firstly Jan can't cast Necromatic magic and secondly both of them have INT 16, which means they can only have a certain number of spells inscribed in their spell books per level (the exact number escapes me - check the manual for the details).
TGHO[/QUOTE]

Actually, potion of genius/mind focusing negates the intelligence restriction.

It's possible to complete the spellbook, but you need ToB to memorize level 9 spells.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:30 pm

The merchant in the Sauhuagin city pays more for items sold than any other merchant in the game.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:50 pm

[QUOTE=Miser]Actually, potion of genius/mind focusing negates the intelligence restriction.

It's possible to complete the spellbook, but you need ToB to memorize level 9 spells.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but that is an engine exploit. It really shouldn't. <Shrug> Personally I boost Jan or Aerie's INT to 19 in SK anyway as the limit bugs me.

You can get 8th and 9th level spells from Ribald in Chapter 6 as well, as well as finding them scattered about.

Cheers,
TGHO

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:51 pm

It appears I've answered my own question. I appreciate the offers of help, but actually, there -is- a better merchant available in Chapter 6 than the Sahuagin merchant.

First, though - I didn't say I wanted to fill Jan's spellbook - you're right in that he couldn't due to his specialization. I'm working on Aerie and Imoen

And yes, with potions of genius the intelligence barrier for them isn't a problem.

Turns out that when I checked out Adventurer's Mart, I didn't check Ribald's "special wares" list, the one you have to pay 50 gp for. I didn't think he'd offer a different amount than he did for his "normal" list, but I was wrong. When viewing those goods, he offers 2750 for a rogue stone, almost twice as much as any other merchant available in Chapter 6, and even more than the Sahuagin merchant!

In fact, he offers so much more that I'm pretty sure you're still better off selling to Ribald even when he already has some of that item in stock (which typically lowers the price a merchant will offer), even if there are other merchants around who don't have it in stock. He still gives a better deal, it seems to me from light testing.

I'm not into stealing from merchants. I'm rp'ing lawful good and, besides, it's downright unAmerican dammit. I feel guilty enough pickpocketing the few NPC's who have something decent and for whom buying it from them -isn't- an option.

By being stingy with my purchases (always getting max charisma and reputation before buying, etc.) I've just barely managed to buy all the scrolls that are available so far for those 3 characters to keep their spell books as packed as possible and get all the other toys I've wanted as well. It's actually pretty fun doing it this way, it'd be kinda boring if I was just "rolling" in shinies the way some people say they are. By doing it "legit" (not stealing) it's actually pretty well balanced and you can still get what you need.

Qwinn

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:59 pm

Just a quick question, Qwinn - why do you want to fill up their spellbooks anyway? There are some spells you'll never use (at least I don't) and Aerie will have duplicates as well.

Just wondering...
TGHO

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:01 pm

For the fun of it

"Because it's there"...

Plus, you get very nice experience for doing it. Yes, yes, I know, you -could- just erase your own copies and rescribe them for the experience, but that feels like an exploit to me, and besides, it'd be rather a waste too. Might as -well- let them scribe 'em.

Just a couple days ago, when I dualled my level 13 kensai to a mage, I managed to get him up to level 10 without doing anything except me and Aerie madly scribing whatever spells we'd picked up so far and could buy from merchants. I'd be doing it just for the fun of it regardless, but the exp is so nice that I'd most definetly do it as a powergamer too.

Qwinn

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:05 pm

I must admit that I don't erase spells - I prefer to use the extra scrolls either in combat, or for cash. I generally scribe a spell if I don't have it, but I don't go out of my way to hunt for missing spells (especially since some don't turn up until ToB).

Oh well, have fun regardless!

Cheers,
TGHO

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:10 pm

I am, thanks

I'm doing pretty well, I think - other than the 1st level "spook" spell and the 4th level "contagion" spell, all 3 characters have every spell from level 1 to 5 now, and I haven't even gone after Bohdi or done the Kargaxx or Mae'var guild quests yet. Currently working Windspear Hills. My own character has 12 level 9 spells now, I think... though Aerie only has 2, and Imoen 3 :/

Now I'm faced with a much more troubling dilemma

Telminser won't show up to give Jaheira the pin... I was rather expecting him to show up in the same area as Drizzt, since I killed Dermin right before going off to Chapter 5, but nope, he's not showing, and that's even after I left the game on pause for about 7 hours earlier today :/ Oh well. I'm just going to keep playing until I have nothing left but to go after Bohdi, but I really hope I don't wind up having to resort to using a UCLA (or whatever) command, considering how well it was going up until that point. I thought it was supposed to go quicker if you weren't romancing Jaheira.

Qwinn

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:16 pm

Spook and Contagion are sold in Ust Natha. If you don't get them there, you will have to wait until ToB.

Where did you find all the 9th level spells??? I usually don't see them until Chapter 6.

As for the Jaheira problem - you've done all the standard things, yeah? Rested outside? Been back to the Harpers a couple of times?

Cheers,
TGHO

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:29 pm

[QUOTE=Qwinn]
Just a couple days ago, when I dualled my level 13 kensai to a mage, I managed to get him up to level 10 without doing anything except me and Aerie madly scribing whatever spells we'd picked up so far and could buy from merchants. I'd be doing it just for the fun of it regardless, but the exp is so nice that I'd most definetly do it as a powergamer too.

Qwinn[/QUOTE]

You might have reactivated your Kensai levels if you had kicked everybody out of the party before scribing all of those spells.

BTW, how did Dermin show up in Chapter 5?

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:04 pm

Yes, I did pick up a copy of Spook and Contagion in Ust Natha, but Aerie still needs one and Imoen still needs the other. I'd found another copy of each elsewhere, probably randomly. Still looking for the third of each. The drow merchant didn't have multiple copies, just one of each.

As to where I found the 9th level spells I've gotten so far - one was by asking the mage in the drow cavern who asks you to kill a bunch of elementals for a better reward. If you ask him for more of a reward twice, he attacks you, and you get several 9th level spells off his corpse.

The rest primarily came from Ribald in Adventurer's Mart, "special wares" section (as I said, it's expensive - it was 7200gp each even with a reputation of 20 and charisma 25). Oh, and the duergar merchant in chapter 5 has tons of Freedom scrolls.

Quick correction - my character has 10 9th level spells so far, not 12.

Oh, Klorox - I -did- kick everyone out of the party for the spell scribing except Aerie - I didn't want to abort the romance with her. Actually, I didn't kick Jaheira out either, I got lucky and the timing of my dual classing coincided pretty closely with Jaheira heading back to Harper hold.

I've never kicked Jaheira out of my party, nor has she ever been petrified, so I know I didn't kill off the harper quest that way.

Oh, and yes, I did all the "standard things". I've slept outside, I've been to Harper's hold several times, I even killed Dermin. There's nothing left for me to do. Telminster's just supposed to show up and give her the pin now. One of these years.

Oh, and Dermin didn't show up in Chapter 5. I killed him in Chapter 3, -just before- I left for Brynnlaw.

Qwinn

Miser · Post by **Miser** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:13 pm

[QUOTE=The Great Hairy]Yeah, but that is an engine exploit. It really shouldn't. <Shrug> Personally I boost Jan or Aerie's INT to 19 in SK anyway as the limit bugs me.

You can get 8th and 9th level spells from Ribald in Chapter 6 as well, as well as finding them scattered about.

Cheers,
TGHO[/QUOTE]

TGH: (What does the "O" stand for?)

I disagree.

An exploit is something used in a way that wasnt intended by the game-developers. I'd be willing to bet that game-testers discovered this already when they were testing, and so they probably intended the potions to be used this way, sooner or later, or they wouldnt allow it at all. Like ya pointed out earlier, a lot of spells are simply garbage, so i think there's no reason for them to care whether or not players get all the spells.

And now that i think about it, all the cheapo strategies we have now even, i wouldnt call them exploitations. I believe the game-developers knew exactly what they were doing even when they came up with UAI! In short, (unless i overestimated the average game-tester,) im reasonably sure they had already discovered most of what we know now way before the game was even out, if not more.

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:20 pm

What engine exploit are you guys talking about? I don't recall ever having trouble scribing 9th level spells without using some sort of exploit.

From what Miser said, this sounds something like the trick used to use the stat-raising Tomes that you can console in but are broken... drink a potion, then replace the item in the quick slot as it's taking effect? Why would you need to do something like that to scribe spells? I'm confused.

Oh, as for the general intent of your post, Miser, I don't agree that all exploits are deliberate. As a programmer, I can tell ya - we're not Gods, and we do screw up. And sometimes getting rid of the exploit can be so difficult that it isn't worth the trouble - especially when honest people wouldn't use them and dishonest people can just go ahead and do console commands to cheat anyway. I personally avoid anything that feels like an exploit, cause if it feels like one, it probably is.

Qwinn

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:06 pm

the exploit is twofold:

1) erasing spells and rescribing them for XP is cheesy. I've done it in my games up until this point, and I'm going to stop now.

2) Boosting INT with potions to scribe more spells. In a PnP D&D game, this would never be allowed. Also, a rule NOT used in the BG games, although it is a D&D rule is the one that you need an 18 INT to cast 9th level spells. In PnP D&D, Imoen couldn't cast 9th level spells. And since you need a 17 INT to cast 8th level spells, Aerie and Jan couldn't cast those either.

Miser · Post by **Miser** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:44 pm

Haha Qwinn, sorry to confuse ya!

Okay, i'll try to summarize a little.

Earlier, in response to one of TGH's even earlier posts, i mentioned that potions can be used to negate the INT restriction that prevents some mage-character from completing their spellbook. By that, i was referring to Jan and Imoen.

TGH later commented and referred to this method as an exploit, then came my previous post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I originally considered the potion method as an exploit too, prior to writing the last post. Then i defined what i considered an actual exploit to be, and the more i thought about it, the more i believed that there really arent any qualified exploits in the game.

For something to be considered an exploit, a game mechanic or something, it has to go unnoticed by game-testers during the making of the game. That's really hard. If there's anything abusable in a game, they will usually catch it to balance the game accordingly.

We didnt find the few cheap strategies we have now because some of us are particularly observant, but because they left it there for us. That said, i think it's even safe to assume that there were perhaps more possible broken exploits during the testing phase of the game, (definitely anything with loophole-potential,) before they were got rid of. It seems likely to me that, also, a lot of strats might actually have originated from previously found "exploits" during testing that were weakened, so they can stay in the game.

I totally agree with you that there are times when it's not worth getting rid of an exploit. I think UAI is an example of this and we all know how broken that is, so they couldnt have missed it. My only guess is that UAI might have been something that had became too popular among the game-testers, or the programmers themselves even, to throw away.

Keep in mind, this is all opinion! Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:17 am

@Miser
The "O" stands for One, as in The Great Hairy One, which is my official nickname, obtained whilst I was at university many years ago. And I was, as you all may have guessed, quite hirsute.

@Qwinn & Miser
I'm a tester.

Amusing coincidence. I've tested games in the past (no, I can't tell you which ones, sorry!) but nothing as detailed and as in depth as BG2.

@All
Ok, the reason I call it an exploit is that the potion method is not allowed (as Klorox said) in the PnP version of 2nd Ed. Klorox also brings up the limitation on actually casting spells with required INT levels - again, not implemented in BG2. Yes, the QA people could have picked it up, but since the Bioware guys did not implement the spell-casting INT restriction, I suspect that they probably let it slide.

UAI is actually part of the 2nd Ed rules, and made it into BG2 as well. If the QA people didn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the 2nd Ed rules I suspect that several "bugs" were not actually found - such as the potion thing.

So probably not an engine bug - but in my mind still a bug.

However, not a bug (as we testers term it NOTA) as its as designed.

Cheers,
TGHO