So, I've installed SOA and TOB onto my laptop so I can play the games again, and I prefer not playing with any of the NPC's this time around.
Ideally, I'd like to have a party where no one duals, so everyone is either a single class the whole way or the are multi-classes. Little is worse than dualling a kensai to a mage only to miss out on the whirlwind HLA's in my opinion.
I'm looking for maybe 3 characters to help them level faster, and I think this party is strong enough to effectively make it from SOA through to TOB, but I'm not sure, and I wouldn't want to have to add one more person half-way through and have them be levels and levels behind everyone else.
I have:
Multi Ranger/Cleric (specializing in flails and warhammers)
Multi Fighter/Druid (specializing in scimitars and dual weapons, and it sucks that she can't get more than 2 *'s in any weapons!)
Multi Thief/Mage (specializing in quarterstaves and two-handed weapons, I'm thinking of the staff of the magi and backstabbing)
I think this will give me enough firepower (think cleric spell to doom a mage, a quick mage spell to disrupt their casting, and a druid spell to insect plague them and prevent them from casting, and then everyone rushes in to knock the snot out...) and enough toe-to-toe slugging, but what do you think? Is an extra tank needed (maybe a monk which are very cool, or a wizard slayer)?
The other thing is these are all pure choices, and obviously, if I dualled, I could have a stronger team by having a stalker/cleric, totemic druid/fighter and assassin/mage, but they will be very feeble until they reactivate their other class and I don't think it's worth the trade-off. I'm tempted, but it's a lot more work...
Thanks for your input!
N.......
Party Advice
I think your party is more than powerful enough to beat SoA+ToB, Ranger/Cleric and Fighter/Druid are all the tanks you need. Since you're only playing with a 3 member party you should reach high levels very soon, though you may lack some arcane firepower (especially protection removal) with only a multiclassed mage early in the game.
If the restriction to 2 * for your fighter/druid bugs you that much consider installing the Ease-of-use mod's component "multiclass granndmastery", it solves that "problem"
If the restriction to 2 * for your fighter/druid bugs you that much consider installing the Ease-of-use mod's component "multiclass granndmastery", it solves that "problem"
Unfortunately you can't backstab with the SotM, but you can of course use it to turn invisible and switch to another weapon to make the backstab.Multi Thief/Mage (specializing in quarterstaves and two-handed weapons, I'm thinking of the staff of the magi and backstabbing)
There are three kinds of people that no one understands: geniuses, madmen and guys that mumble.
[QUOTE=Numinor]I think your party is more than powerful enough to beat SoA+ToB, Ranger/Cleric and Fighter/Druid are all the tanks you need. Since you're only playing with a 3 member party you should reach high levels very soon, though you may lack some arcane firepower (especially protection removal) with only a multiclassed mage early in the game.
[/QUOTE]
That's one of the reasons I'm flipping... if I dual an assassin to a mage, I can funnel more experience to the mage levels (instead of an 18/18 thief mage, I could limit the thief to 13, let's say and have 22 mage levels - I'm guessing at the experience totals, but you get my drift). I think I'd want to grow both sides of the others... maybe I should just get down to counting how many points I'd like in each thief skill and add them up to see what level to take him to, but that's a lot more owrk.
[QUOTE=Numinor]
If the restriction to 2 * for your fighter/druid bugs you that much consider installing the Ease-of-use mod's component "multiclass granndmastery", it solves that "problem"
[/QUOTE]
Would you consider that cheating, per se? In other words, if the only reason why they don't have the additional *s is because it was overlooked by the developers, than I don't mind adding it in. If they kept it out for some reason, then I'd feel a little guilty. I was already planning on using some of those mods, like the missile stacking in particular.
[QUOTE=Numinor]
Unfortunately you can't backstab with the SotM, but you can of course use it to turn invisible and switch to another weapon to make the backstab.[/QUOTE]
Doh! I guess it gives the "weapon is unsuitable for backstabbing" message? Well, the Staff of Rynn is available near the start, so I can use that one instead.
Thanks!
[/QUOTE]
That's one of the reasons I'm flipping... if I dual an assassin to a mage, I can funnel more experience to the mage levels (instead of an 18/18 thief mage, I could limit the thief to 13, let's say and have 22 mage levels - I'm guessing at the experience totals, but you get my drift). I think I'd want to grow both sides of the others... maybe I should just get down to counting how many points I'd like in each thief skill and add them up to see what level to take him to, but that's a lot more owrk.
[QUOTE=Numinor]
If the restriction to 2 * for your fighter/druid bugs you that much consider installing the Ease-of-use mod's component "multiclass granndmastery", it solves that "problem"
[/QUOTE]
Would you consider that cheating, per se? In other words, if the only reason why they don't have the additional *s is because it was overlooked by the developers, than I don't mind adding it in. If they kept it out for some reason, then I'd feel a little guilty. I was already planning on using some of those mods, like the missile stacking in particular.
[QUOTE=Numinor]
Unfortunately you can't backstab with the SotM, but you can of course use it to turn invisible and switch to another weapon to make the backstab.[/QUOTE]
Doh! I guess it gives the "weapon is unsuitable for backstabbing" message? Well, the Staff of Rynn is available near the start, so I can use that one instead.
Thanks!
[QUOTE=Thrain]why have a fighter/druid and a ranger/cleric? they can both cast the doom and insect spells you want.
i would take the fighter/druid out and introduce another character, maybe a fighter/mage or a fighter/theif (and make your theif/mage a cleric/mage so you can use sequencers for cleric spells)[/QUOTE]
I had a party before with a dualled stalker/cleric and druid/fighter, and they were fantastic, but it obviously took some time to get them both to a place where they were what they were supposed to be.
The ranger/cleric didn't have access to the druid spells, AFAIK, and I don't spend as much time looking for the perfect buff as I do running in and trying to knock 'em down the first time, so having two healers would help. Frankly, I prefer the druid set of clerical spells.
Sequenceres with Aerie worked well, but she has soured me on that whole class ("oh please won't you hold my hand and stroke my broken wings..."), and with a small party, I can't really afford to have anyone that can't get their hands dirty "in the action".
I was debating between the assassin, thinking of dualling that into the mage, but to get reasonable thief abilities like this would take a while:
pick pockets 75
open locks 105
find traps 105
move silently 90
hide in shadows 105
detect illusion 0
set traps 100
Even if they brought the mercykiller, danger sense and lock picks rings, plus had boots of stealth, it would still take them to around level 20 to get all the points divvied up (assume a dex of 18, and a total of 435 points, minus base numbers, minus the 145 points your char starts with, divided by 15 = a little under 13). That's just waaay to wait and dual over.
So, a thief/mage it is. I think it will be interesting...
i would take the fighter/druid out and introduce another character, maybe a fighter/mage or a fighter/theif (and make your theif/mage a cleric/mage so you can use sequencers for cleric spells)[/QUOTE]
I had a party before with a dualled stalker/cleric and druid/fighter, and they were fantastic, but it obviously took some time to get them both to a place where they were what they were supposed to be.
The ranger/cleric didn't have access to the druid spells, AFAIK, and I don't spend as much time looking for the perfect buff as I do running in and trying to knock 'em down the first time, so having two healers would help. Frankly, I prefer the druid set of clerical spells.
Sequenceres with Aerie worked well, but she has soured me on that whole class ("oh please won't you hold my hand and stroke my broken wings..."), and with a small party, I can't really afford to have anyone that can't get their hands dirty "in the action".
I was debating between the assassin, thinking of dualling that into the mage, but to get reasonable thief abilities like this would take a while:
pick pockets 75
open locks 105
find traps 105
move silently 90
hide in shadows 105
detect illusion 0
set traps 100
Even if they brought the mercykiller, danger sense and lock picks rings, plus had boots of stealth, it would still take them to around level 20 to get all the points divvied up (assume a dex of 18, and a total of 435 points, minus base numbers, minus the 145 points your char starts with, divided by 15 = a little under 13). That's just waaay to wait and dual over.
So, a thief/mage it is. I think it will be interesting...
Well, bust my britches...
I just created a test character, and a cleric ranger does indeed get druidic spells... So, doom, summon insects, call lightning, shillelagh, et al... I may have to rethink this. The fighter/druid would undoubtably be a better fighter, but wouldn't be able to wield FoA... The cleric/ranger would be able to wield a slightly wider range of weapons, but would suffer on the THACO... I may go ahead anyways, as having two folks that can cast insect plague (by far my favorite spell) and then run in, or alternate, may be a big advantage.
@Thrain - I am humbled before your knowledge.
I just created a test character, and a cleric ranger does indeed get druidic spells... So, doom, summon insects, call lightning, shillelagh, et al... I may have to rethink this. The fighter/druid would undoubtably be a better fighter, but wouldn't be able to wield FoA... The cleric/ranger would be able to wield a slightly wider range of weapons, but would suffer on the THACO... I may go ahead anyways, as having two folks that can cast insect plague (by far my favorite spell) and then run in, or alternate, may be a big advantage.
@Thrain - I am humbled before your knowledge.
no worries man. i am interested to know why you think fighter/druid would be a better fighter. even simple cleric spells (righteous magic, DUHM) make a cleric multiclass good fighters (extra HP, better THACO etc)
if you want people who can wade into combat, why a theif/mage? not exactly melee proficient.
and with that party you have no-one to take advantage of the better swords in the game (daystar, carsomyr etc.)
how about adding a fighter/mage?
if you want people who can wade into combat, why a theif/mage? not exactly melee proficient.
and with that party you have no-one to take advantage of the better swords in the game (daystar, carsomyr etc.)
how about adding a fighter/mage?
[QUOTE=Thrain]no worries man. i am interested to know why you think fighter/druid would be a better fighter. even simple cleric spells (righteous magic, DUHM) make a cleric multiclass good fighters (extra HP, better THACO etc)
if you want people who can wade into combat, why a theif/mage? not exactly melee proficient.
and with that party you have no-one to take advantage of the better swords in the game (daystar, carsomyr etc.)
how about adding a fighter/mage?[/QUOTE]
You know, I thought about that, but I wanted to try something different. My last game had Minsc duelling celestial fury and daystar, and I've only used carsomyr once (Jan with UAI). I was even thinking about aiming for *only* spears, staves and halberds for my team o' three, which would give me the three main +6 weapons in the game, but I can't do that with a cleric in the mix.
I like trying some of the odd things just to see if they'll work. In my last game, I had the druid start an insect plague, while the stalker backstabbed with the staff mace, and then the druid wailed in. I recall the druid had a thaco of -10 and -14 for dual weapons, and was around level... oh geez... 25-ish? I can't quite recall (I'm at work). She wielded Belm and spectral brand, so got in a large number of hits to balance things her way.
For the thief/mage, I know I didn't have either a thief or a mage, so I figured I could double up. Plus, using the staff of the magi to go invisible at will, plus a good secondary staff (as suggested) can make for powerful backstabbing. Go invisible, position, backstab, cast, repeat. I don't have any real range weapons, so that person can also spell cast at a distance.
A fighter or fighter/mage is where I was thinking... I wasn't sure if I really needed one or not. That's why I was thinking about a monk. The other way, though, may be harder, but with only three people, I'd expect to level up faster.
Hmm.... food for thought...
if you want people who can wade into combat, why a theif/mage? not exactly melee proficient.
and with that party you have no-one to take advantage of the better swords in the game (daystar, carsomyr etc.)
how about adding a fighter/mage?[/QUOTE]
You know, I thought about that, but I wanted to try something different. My last game had Minsc duelling celestial fury and daystar, and I've only used carsomyr once (Jan with UAI). I was even thinking about aiming for *only* spears, staves and halberds for my team o' three, which would give me the three main +6 weapons in the game, but I can't do that with a cleric in the mix.
I like trying some of the odd things just to see if they'll work. In my last game, I had the druid start an insect plague, while the stalker backstabbed with the staff mace, and then the druid wailed in. I recall the druid had a thaco of -10 and -14 for dual weapons, and was around level... oh geez... 25-ish? I can't quite recall (I'm at work). She wielded Belm and spectral brand, so got in a large number of hits to balance things her way.
For the thief/mage, I know I didn't have either a thief or a mage, so I figured I could double up. Plus, using the staff of the magi to go invisible at will, plus a good secondary staff (as suggested) can make for powerful backstabbing. Go invisible, position, backstab, cast, repeat. I don't have any real range weapons, so that person can also spell cast at a distance.
A fighter or fighter/mage is where I was thinking... I wasn't sure if I really needed one or not. That's why I was thinking about a monk. The other way, though, may be harder, but with only three people, I'd expect to level up faster.
Hmm.... food for thought...
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Phantom Lord
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From my small party experience I'd multiclass the thief with a fighter. F/T rocks big time in BG2 (my last F/T was the undisputed leader in the party kill stats through the whole game and yes, I had Korgan in the party, equipped with CF later in the game).
As for the cleric spellcaster, F/C, R/C or F/D sound equally fine - since I'm more the "conservative" player, I'd pick F/C, but that's just a personal thing.
What's left is the arcane spellcaster, and that one's difficult! Your choice is basically F/M, specialist wizard, sorcerer or bard. The above characters will be tanky enough to afford a vulnerable character, so F/M is not really needed (great class though). Personally I'd go for the sorcerer with this setup, but again it's a matter of taste.
As for the cleric spellcaster, F/C, R/C or F/D sound equally fine - since I'm more the "conservative" player, I'd pick F/C, but that's just a personal thing.
What's left is the arcane spellcaster, and that one's difficult! Your choice is basically F/M, specialist wizard, sorcerer or bard. The above characters will be tanky enough to afford a vulnerable character, so F/M is not really needed (great class though). Personally I'd go for the sorcerer with this setup, but again it's a matter of taste.
Interesting idea... I've had some bad experiences in watcher's keep and some of the other areas that remind me of the end of the fellowship of the ring - a bunch of people battling on all sides and also defending the one in the middle, and then suddenly the barriers are broken and they swarm in and knock out the weakest link (normally Aerie or Jan for me) since I don't defend them as well as others in these forums. I'd like the weakest person to still have some skill with steel in addition to whatever else...
But the idea of having just a fighter/cleric instead of a ranger/cleric... interesting... the downside is that would essentially be another Anomen, but the fighter druid is another Jaheira, and the mage/thief is another Jan... Hah! As unique I try to be, I'm almost completely not!
But the idea of having just a fighter/cleric instead of a ranger/cleric... interesting... the downside is that would essentially be another Anomen, but the fighter druid is another Jaheira, and the mage/thief is another Jan... Hah! As unique I try to be, I'm almost completely not!
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Phantom Lord
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I see your concern and understand it pretty well. If I were to build your party, chances are that it would turn out to be F/T, F/C and F/M. I just dislike the idea that any character of mine is easy prey in melee. But it takes only one word to answer the "swarming enemies threaten your weak characters" problem: Summons.
Anyway, F/T, F/C and F/M is always a valid alternative.
But basically you'll level up at a rapid rate and that will make things very easy. And if you do some Watcher's Keep levels within SoA, it gets almost boring - e.g. if you enter the deathknight area in Underdark with a summoned planetar at your side ...
On a sidenote: If you want something more original, you'll may try a C/T plus a F/M plus ... well, basically someone else who can use a sword and is good at something else besides that - but there's no real need for an additional character except for added firepower or the fun of having three characters.
C/T is a perfect class for small parties, because it covers two must-have roles and once you've got UAI, it's extremely versatile. You won't get weapon specialization, true, but you ain't gonna need it!
Anyway, F/T, F/C and F/M is always a valid alternative.
But basically you'll level up at a rapid rate and that will make things very easy. And if you do some Watcher's Keep levels within SoA, it gets almost boring - e.g. if you enter the deathknight area in Underdark with a summoned planetar at your side ...
On a sidenote: If you want something more original, you'll may try a C/T plus a F/M plus ... well, basically someone else who can use a sword and is good at something else besides that - but there's no real need for an additional character except for added firepower or the fun of having three characters.
C/T is a perfect class for small parties, because it covers two must-have roles and once you've got UAI, it's extremely versatile. You won't get weapon specialization, true, but you ain't gonna need it!