Were you surprised by the results of the US elections? (NO spam)
- fable
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Were you surprised by the results of the US elections? (NO spam)
I wasn't. I didn't expect any showing from any of the third party candidates. My wife, who strongly prefers several of these, didn't vote for them, because she says they can't win. I expected the country to move even further into neo-con hands, because their campaign focused on hate and fear, while Kerry had no vision to offer: only a moderately conservative rehash. And finally, because the Democrats have been rudderless for more than a quarter of a century, while the Republicans have a plan that has never worked...but at least, it's a plan.
I figure, it's best for the US the way it happened, and this is what I've been saying around our house for weeks. (Though not for long at any time. We both are very disgusted with American politics.) The enormous deficit Bush has racked up would have been blame on Kerry if he'd gotten into office; as it is, the blame for the next four years of dead troops, dead Iraqis, mismanaged funds, lost jobs, and lost liberties will be blamed on the neo-cons. I don't see how they can massage this one into the opposite, except for the most fanatical and diehard of their footling troops.
Over to you. Please stay on topic.
I figure, it's best for the US the way it happened, and this is what I've been saying around our house for weeks. (Though not for long at any time. We both are very disgusted with American politics.) The enormous deficit Bush has racked up would have been blame on Kerry if he'd gotten into office; as it is, the blame for the next four years of dead troops, dead Iraqis, mismanaged funds, lost jobs, and lost liberties will be blamed on the neo-cons. I don't see how they can massage this one into the opposite, except for the most fanatical and diehard of their footling troops.
Over to you. Please stay on topic.
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- dragon wench
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No, I'm not surprised...
I admit however, even though I am disgusted by the US electoral system (I mean, for one, it is not even controlled by a central, Federal body! ) and the lack of any real choice in terms of candidates... I was hoping Kerry would get in. IMO, the world is a far more dangerous place than it was prior to Bush Junior's 'reign of terror'... Another four years? This makes me very worried.
I think you are right though Fable, in that now only Bush can be blamed for the deficit, the deaths in Iraq, lost liberties etc. Perhaps this is the proverbial silver lining...
Nonetheless, this is one instance where I think it a positive thing that US presidents cannot run for office more than twice... Though God only knows what batch of morons there will be to choose from next time around....
I admit however, even though I am disgusted by the US electoral system (I mean, for one, it is not even controlled by a central, Federal body! ) and the lack of any real choice in terms of candidates... I was hoping Kerry would get in. IMO, the world is a far more dangerous place than it was prior to Bush Junior's 'reign of terror'... Another four years? This makes me very worried.
I think you are right though Fable, in that now only Bush can be blamed for the deficit, the deaths in Iraq, lost liberties etc. Perhaps this is the proverbial silver lining...
Nonetheless, this is one instance where I think it a positive thing that US presidents cannot run for office more than twice... Though God only knows what batch of morons there will be to choose from next time around....
Spoiler
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Spoiler
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Not surprised at all actually, I think that a lot of America is still angered at 11/09 and the main problem is that the people who are angry at Bush and show that they are are the politically active - there are a lot who just haven't shown that they care and have voted Republican, I mean, lets face it, the Democrats by nature are hardly like to reduce taxation and return money to the people.
I liked this map the BBC created to show the distribution of results - it shows the breakdown well I thought.
I liked this map the BBC created to show the distribution of results - it shows the breakdown well I thought.
Perverteer Paladin
I wasn't exactly surprised... Kerry was always slightly behind in most polls.
I'm worried about a number of possible ramifications. This election seems to have divided the American people more than ever before (well, maybe except that time when you guys had that civil war ), what will the effects be? How are the Democrats going to recover? How will it affect the next elections, will they be even more nasty and rough?
I'm worried about a number of possible ramifications. This election seems to have divided the American people more than ever before (well, maybe except that time when you guys had that civil war ), what will the effects be? How are the Democrats going to recover? How will it affect the next elections, will they be even more nasty and rough?
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- fable
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@Coot, the neo-con movement is such that it automatically divides people, and inspires strong emotion. It is as close as the US has come since the 19th century to a fullscale cult, at least by its traditional definition:
1) Its claims are not backed by any facts,
2) Its world view is black-and-white,
3) It believes in preemptive attacks on its perceived enemies,
4) It regards deception as a weapon in the pursuit of its objectives,
5) Its goals are based on some mythical, unattainable ideal,
6) Its members are fanatics who are impervious to logic.
If someone were to walk up to you and say that since your views differ from theirs, you're a wifebeater, and that they're going to write your boss to get you fired, you'd probably get angry in response. The political polarization caused by neo-cons follows a similar experience, but on a national level. They don't simply change policies, as other groups have upon achieving political power in the past. They proclaim it with fervor beforehand, they do it and boast about it, and they chortle openly with delight over all their foes who have lost out. They bait those of other political persuasions, who in the US, because of the winner-take-all system, remain powerless. The neo-cons are, in this respect, the final, most extroverted result of such a system.
I don't know that the US can ever back away from its current path of polarization. The detente of Democrats and Republicans which existed in general cordiality when they worked together for three-quarters of a century is irreperably broken. Even when the neo-con dreams are revealed as nightmares, that will still leave the Republicans with no better alternative to get elected. They will have to keep pushing that button, unless they want to search for new constituencies and new solutions. And they are, in the final analysis, as intellectually bankrupt as their Democratic opponents.
1) Its claims are not backed by any facts,
2) Its world view is black-and-white,
3) It believes in preemptive attacks on its perceived enemies,
4) It regards deception as a weapon in the pursuit of its objectives,
5) Its goals are based on some mythical, unattainable ideal,
6) Its members are fanatics who are impervious to logic.
If someone were to walk up to you and say that since your views differ from theirs, you're a wifebeater, and that they're going to write your boss to get you fired, you'd probably get angry in response. The political polarization caused by neo-cons follows a similar experience, but on a national level. They don't simply change policies, as other groups have upon achieving political power in the past. They proclaim it with fervor beforehand, they do it and boast about it, and they chortle openly with delight over all their foes who have lost out. They bait those of other political persuasions, who in the US, because of the winner-take-all system, remain powerless. The neo-cons are, in this respect, the final, most extroverted result of such a system.
I don't know that the US can ever back away from its current path of polarization. The detente of Democrats and Republicans which existed in general cordiality when they worked together for three-quarters of a century is irreperably broken. Even when the neo-con dreams are revealed as nightmares, that will still leave the Republicans with no better alternative to get elected. They will have to keep pushing that button, unless they want to search for new constituencies and new solutions. And they are, in the final analysis, as intellectually bankrupt as their Democratic opponents.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
- Galuf the Dwarf
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I wasn't surprised either, but it's not like the world is DEFINTELY DOOMED, either. Come on, what good is worrying if the future can just as well go the other way? Who's to say that the richer will DEFINITELY begetting richer and the poorer are getting poorer, or that the world will DEFINITELY burn up and be ruined eternally by pollution? There is the possibility, but like a certain saying went,
The only thing known about the future is uncertainty.
Call me optimistic, but there's no good worrying about what you don't see forecoming, since you may just as well get bolstered as get damaged by it.
BTW, DW, would you mind checking your PM again?
The only thing known about the future is uncertainty.
Call me optimistic, but there's no good worrying about what you don't see forecoming, since you may just as well get bolstered as get damaged by it.
BTW, DW, would you mind checking your PM again?
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I was surprised last time, and I am even more surprised this time. My poor wits cannot fathom how Americans can support Bush now when there is visible, concrete evidence of what his actions have led to in terms of creating conflicts, manipulating the American people to support his invasions of foreign states, etc, etc...not that I believe Kerry would have changed a lot, but the kind of religious fanatism combined with aggressive imperialistis the Bush administration has demonstrated, is far more dangerous for the rest of the world as well as for America itself I think.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
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- Rob-hin
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I predicted it.
Re-election is most probably in most cases.
The good thing is that Bush has to fix his own mess now, not that he's capable of doing so though.
It's true that non-americans can't imagine why he is re-elected, I'm even at a blurr about that. Someone (American, perferably who has voted for Bush) has to tell me why Most Americans (and him or her) did so. I'm not trying to be funny or anything, I really want to know.
Re-election is most probably in most cases.
The good thing is that Bush has to fix his own mess now, not that he's capable of doing so though.
It's true that non-americans can't imagine why he is re-elected, I'm even at a blurr about that. Someone (American, perferably who has voted for Bush) has to tell me why Most Americans (and him or her) did so. I'm not trying to be funny or anything, I really want to know.
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Gives you strength.
Gives you strength.
Yes, I was surprised that the alternatives to Bush (Democrat, third-party, write-ins, etc.) did not receive more total votes than Bush. I expected more people to vote against Bush. It appears that many if not most Americans believe that: 1) only the people who got us into the mess we're in can get us out of it, or 2) Bush has never made any mistakes, or 3) nothing is ever Bush's fault. It's hard for me to imagine why so many people believe that Bush was the best candidate for President.
[QUOTE=VonDondu]It's hard for me to imagine why so many people believe that Bush was the best candidate for President.[/QUOTE]
It's even more hard for us European's to imagine But I'm trying to look at it like Fable describes in his opening post.
@Fable: In discussions of contemporary history of ideas and philosophy, it is often pointed out that one of the greatest differences between the US and Europe, is the polarisation v. pluralism of ideas. Many different explanatory factors have been presented, like the two-party system v.parliamentarism (but the UK also have a similar winner-takes-it all system).
Of course those who gain (in this case the Neo-cons) from a polarised system will maintain it - but where and how did it origin, do you know?
It's even more hard for us European's to imagine But I'm trying to look at it like Fable describes in his opening post.
@Fable: In discussions of contemporary history of ideas and philosophy, it is often pointed out that one of the greatest differences between the US and Europe, is the polarisation v. pluralism of ideas. Many different explanatory factors have been presented, like the two-party system v.parliamentarism (but the UK also have a similar winner-takes-it all system).
Of course those who gain (in this case the Neo-cons) from a polarised system will maintain it - but where and how did it origin, do you know?
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
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[QUOTE=C Elegans]My poor wits cannot fathom how Americans can support Bush now when there is visible, concrete evidence of what his actions have led to... not that I believe Kerry would have changed a lot...[/QUOTE]
There's also a lot of evidence that the Bush administration is very deceptive, or even if you give them the benefit of the doubt, self-deluded. Now that Bush has won the popular vote, his rationalizations and self-justification can only get worse. I don't know what he's capable of doing with a head that big. I'm surprised that so many people trust him to be our President.
Frankly, I don't think that Kerry could get us out of the mess we're in. I don't know if anyone can at this point. Furthermore, if Kerry were President, he would be under constant attack from the "disloyal opposition". We saw what the opposition is capable of when Clinton was President, and it would be just as ugly, if not worse, if Kerry were President. Just as people think that Bush can do no wrong because he's a Republican, people think that Kerry can't do anything right just because he's a Democrat. That is the simple truth about modern politics in America.
There's also a lot of evidence that the Bush administration is very deceptive, or even if you give them the benefit of the doubt, self-deluded. Now that Bush has won the popular vote, his rationalizations and self-justification can only get worse. I don't know what he's capable of doing with a head that big. I'm surprised that so many people trust him to be our President.
Frankly, I don't think that Kerry could get us out of the mess we're in. I don't know if anyone can at this point. Furthermore, if Kerry were President, he would be under constant attack from the "disloyal opposition". We saw what the opposition is capable of when Clinton was President, and it would be just as ugly, if not worse, if Kerry were President. Just as people think that Bush can do no wrong because he's a Republican, people think that Kerry can't do anything right just because he's a Democrat. That is the simple truth about modern politics in America.
- fable
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[QUOTE=C Elegans]Of course those who gain (in this case the Neo-cons) from a polarised system will maintain it - but where and how did it origin, do you know?[/QUOTE]
Polarization, the "either you're with me, or against me" mentality, is alas ingrained in the US mentality--just as it is in Russia. (I've often suspected one reason for the violent antagonism between the Soviet and the US was the fact that the two cultures are in many ways very similar.) It started with some of the most powerful and persuasive of American colonies, the Pilgrims in Massachusetts, and the proto-French planter society of the Southeast. Both were fueled by zealots: the Pilgrims, by religious bigotry they held for all differing views, and the planters, by an equally zealous (if seemingly self-contradictory) ideology derived from the French Revolution. Each saw the rest of the world in terms of complete acceptance for their way of life and beliefs, or complete opposition.
The federal government that eventually evolved only furthered this perception of deep division and mutually antagonistic viewpoints, with a tendency to great bitterness because the loser in any election or floor vote received nothing in compensation. Winning became all that mattered. Whereas the modern European represenative model (it must be remembered, this was not present back in the 18th or 19th centuries) emphasized compromise because of the power it gave to small interests, the powerlessness of small interests in the US led naturally to coalescing into major, antagonistic parties.
Polarization, the "either you're with me, or against me" mentality, is alas ingrained in the US mentality--just as it is in Russia. (I've often suspected one reason for the violent antagonism between the Soviet and the US was the fact that the two cultures are in many ways very similar.) It started with some of the most powerful and persuasive of American colonies, the Pilgrims in Massachusetts, and the proto-French planter society of the Southeast. Both were fueled by zealots: the Pilgrims, by religious bigotry they held for all differing views, and the planters, by an equally zealous (if seemingly self-contradictory) ideology derived from the French Revolution. Each saw the rest of the world in terms of complete acceptance for their way of life and beliefs, or complete opposition.
The federal government that eventually evolved only furthered this perception of deep division and mutually antagonistic viewpoints, with a tendency to great bitterness because the loser in any election or floor vote received nothing in compensation. Winning became all that mattered. Whereas the modern European represenative model (it must be remembered, this was not present back in the 18th or 19th centuries) emphasized compromise because of the power it gave to small interests, the powerlessness of small interests in the US led naturally to coalescing into major, antagonistic parties.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Surprised? Definitely not. Read why. A lot of people will most likely turn a blind eye towards this article, which is sad of course, but no surprise. Hopefully, some SYMians will remember Greg Palast (author of the article linked to) from the last election and his many articles. If not, do visit his website at http://www.gregpalast.com. IMO one of the most trustworthy and should-be respected reporters of our time.
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?
But a dream within a dream?
- Gwalchmai
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I was very surprised. But then again, I sometimes have a bio-modal personality that seems to swing toward extremes of optimism. Today, I am currently swinging the other way, and fear that I will remain there for quite some time.
[QUOTE=C Elegans]My poor wits cannot fathom how Americans can support Bush now when there is visible, concrete evidence of what his actions have led to in terms of creating conflicts, manipulating the American people to support his invasions of foreign states, etc, etc...[/QUOTE]I agree whole heartedly with this sentiment, except that I would point out that 56 million Americans didn't support him, and didn't vote for him. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to trump the 59 million that did vote for him.
I would like to apologize to everyone right now, for I am feeling very thin-skinned these days. I am sure that I will take offence at anyone who lumps all Americans together as supporters of Bush and Bush's policies. I, my wife, and most of our friends do not deserve such an insult.
[QUOTE=C Elegans]My poor wits cannot fathom how Americans can support Bush now when there is visible, concrete evidence of what his actions have led to in terms of creating conflicts, manipulating the American people to support his invasions of foreign states, etc, etc...[/QUOTE]I agree whole heartedly with this sentiment, except that I would point out that 56 million Americans didn't support him, and didn't vote for him. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to trump the 59 million that did vote for him.
I would like to apologize to everyone right now, for I am feeling very thin-skinned these days. I am sure that I will take offence at anyone who lumps all Americans together as supporters of Bush and Bush's policies. I, my wife, and most of our friends do not deserve such an insult.
That there; exactly the kinda diversion we coulda used.
I also am not surprised at the results of the election. When you look at it though, the line between 'libs' and 'neo-cons' is disappearing. They are both extremist morons.
On politicalcompass it showed Kerry and Bush REALLY close to eachother on the chart, and that to didn't seem to surprise me either.
I think we need a good old fashioned civil war with muskets and cannons and stuff now..and knowing how awesome I am with strategy, I would get a +1 bonus to attack from having higher ground!
On politicalcompass it showed Kerry and Bush REALLY close to eachother on the chart, and that to didn't seem to surprise me either.
I think we need a good old fashioned civil war with muskets and cannons and stuff now..and knowing how awesome I am with strategy, I would get a +1 bonus to attack from having higher ground!
I was surprised by two things, the turn out ( I was expecting less than 100 million) and that a repeat of the Florida Incident didn't take place.
I was also expecting Kerry to take the Electoral and Bush to take the Popular, sweet justice to some.
In the perfect world, I would prefer the President and Congress to be split all the time, now though it seems the Reps will have a free run at least for two years (Next House election)
I was also expecting Kerry to take the Electoral and Bush to take the Popular, sweet justice to some.
In the perfect world, I would prefer the President and Congress to be split all the time, now though it seems the Reps will have a free run at least for two years (Next House election)
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
- fable
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I also am not surprised at the results of the election. When you look at it though, the line between 'libs' and 'neo-cons' is disappearing. They are both extremist morons.
Libs? What libs? The US hasn't had a liberal movement since it was squashed in the Reagan landslide of 1980. Is Kerry liberal, a man who has repeatedly stated he wouldn't sign the Kyoto Protocols--the incredibly ineffectual, tiny series of baby steps intended to bring global pollution under control? A man who has supported nearly 90% of the defense appropriations bills since he was elected to the Senate back in the 1970s? A man who sponsored several of them? Who backed the formation of Homeland Security? The US has sllipped so far to the right that it currently views anybody who's moderate-to-conservative as "liberal." We really need to stop applying labels, especially labels created by other people to control us.
And the neo-cons aren't morons. Never make the mistake of thinking that because you despise a point of view, the people who espouse it are intellecutally inferior. the neo-cons know exactly what they want, they know how to set about getting it, and they are doing it in spades, with great success. They are extremely wealthy, and have a large, competent national network. Their real problem is that they have a good grasp of the mindset of their followers, but none of other cultures, which they treat with the kind of contempt you apply to them.
Libs? What libs? The US hasn't had a liberal movement since it was squashed in the Reagan landslide of 1980. Is Kerry liberal, a man who has repeatedly stated he wouldn't sign the Kyoto Protocols--the incredibly ineffectual, tiny series of baby steps intended to bring global pollution under control? A man who has supported nearly 90% of the defense appropriations bills since he was elected to the Senate back in the 1970s? A man who sponsored several of them? Who backed the formation of Homeland Security? The US has sllipped so far to the right that it currently views anybody who's moderate-to-conservative as "liberal." We really need to stop applying labels, especially labels created by other people to control us.
And the neo-cons aren't morons. Never make the mistake of thinking that because you despise a point of view, the people who espouse it are intellecutally inferior. the neo-cons know exactly what they want, they know how to set about getting it, and they are doing it in spades, with great success. They are extremely wealthy, and have a large, competent national network. Their real problem is that they have a good grasp of the mindset of their followers, but none of other cultures, which they treat with the kind of contempt you apply to them.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
It's a subject worthy of a deep sociological study, I think. To most Europeans it is amazing that Bush have even strenghted his position!VonDondu wrote:Now that Bush has won the popular vote, his rationalizations and self-justification can only get worse. I don't know what he's capable of doing with a head that big. I'm surprised that so many people trust him to be our President.
It is obvious that there is a great division between Americans politically. If it is any consolation, I can at least say that before I started posting on this board, I have never met an American who voted for Bush - I even posted a question here long ago asking who on earth all the Bush supporters were, seing all of my many American friends and colleagues explicitely and fiercly opposed him. Looking at the demographic and geographic maps of voting ratios, I think this is easy to explain since the Americans I know generally belong to a specific part of the population. It is sad how the rift between the US and Europe (and the Arab world, and the rest of the world possibly excluding Kenya where many people seem to like Bush ) deepens.Fable] Polarization wrote:
Interesting, I've always suspected the same, and at an anecdotal level (ie my personal references and my friends from the US and former Soviet union) I found many fundamental cultural similarities. I am quite happy Putin did not reign during the cold war.
Several political analysts I've read seems to think it was a turning point in the development of major differences between US and Europe, that representative parliamentarism developed here whereas polarisation grew deeper and became rooted in the American set of mind. What do you think can be done about this situation today in the US, if anything?The federal government that eventually evolved only furthered this perception of deep division and mutually antagonistic viewpoints, with a tendency to great bitterness because the loser in any election or floor vote received nothing in compensation. Winning became all that mattered. Whereas the modern European represenative model (it must be remembered, this was not present back in the 18th or 19th centuries) emphasized compromise because of the power it gave to small interests, the powerlessness of small interests in the US led naturally to coalescing into major, antagonistic parties.
In Europe, polarisation as well as influence by irrational factors is developing partly as a consequence of media development, and partly as a consequence of the failure of the traditional political ideologies to match the development in society. Up to the 1980's or so, TV messages were not so important for voters, instead it was personal information from stations places all over town, and think leaflets that the parties sent out. The independant newspapers also always covered elections extensively, and people often read this. Many people voted for ideology (social democrat, liberal, conservative etc) rather than specific issues. Over the last 15-20 years, voters have become more mobile, people vote for specific issues more often and thus change party more often. This development is good IMO, since it demands that people actually take in information about the different parties' stance in different issues. However, what is really bad is that people have become more TV-oriented and thus, the politicial messages are adapted to suit TV-discussions where each speaker has 15 seconds each to reply to a question. Messages thus become more slogan-like since they need to be short, strongly simplified and instantly appealing. This opens up for emotional arguments and fragmentation of a degree never seen in Sweden before, and was very obvious in the EMU referendum last year. Politicans also lack visions of what a society should be like, they seem to focus only on how to survive until the next election, which obviously result in a very short time thinking. So I think the European crisis in politics can be described mainly as lack of adaptation to modern society, lack of long term thinking, simplification and fragmentation of political issues which decreases people's understanding of the consequences, and following this: decrease in interest and lack of confidence in politicians in general.
Gwalchmai] I was very surprised. But then again wrote:
I was optimistic for Kerry not because I think he's so much better but because I simply couldn't believe a majority of Americans were prepared to support Bush after what has happened...most people I know thought the same, and in Europe many people have a hard time understand what makes Bush popular. Many Swedes were quite depressed this morning.
I agree whole heartedly with this sentiment, except that I would point out that 56 million Americand didn't support him, and didn't vote for him. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to trump the 59 million that did vote for him.
I would like to apologize to everyone right now, for I am feeling very thin-skinned these days. I am sure that I will take offence at anyone who lumps all Americans together as supporters of Bush and Bush's policies. I, my wife, and most of our friends do not deserve such an insult.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
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- fable
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Several political analysts I've read seems to think it was a turning point in the development of major differences between US and Europe, that representative parliamentarism developed here whereas polarisation grew deeper and became rooted in the American set of mind. What do you think can be done about this situation today in the US, if anything?
Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness (which are in some respects reflective of one another) that I really don't see any way for a reasonable removal of this to occur. A drastic, earth-shattering change would have to take place, one that affected the American psyche on a level and in a way that it hasn't been hit before; something that would break the notion that one's enemies aren't people, and that large sums of money don't create a manifest destiny. It would have to be here, at home, not overseas, where Americans could rationalize away matters as they quickly managed with the Iraqi prison scandal, or the dumping of out-of-date drugs on the African continent so that Amercian drug makers could claim the loss for tax purposes. It would have to be a continuous and lengthy crisis of great dimensions, so that the media couldn't ignore it and the public couldn't turn to other forms of entertainment to avoid reality.
But at a fundamental level, it would have to start at home and in the schools--and right now, the schools are daycares that instill a hatred of curiosity and knowledge, while the home is a source of entertainment and the learning of prejudices. Evolving beyond polarization doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. Quite the opposite, in my opinion.
Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness (which are in some respects reflective of one another) that I really don't see any way for a reasonable removal of this to occur. A drastic, earth-shattering change would have to take place, one that affected the American psyche on a level and in a way that it hasn't been hit before; something that would break the notion that one's enemies aren't people, and that large sums of money don't create a manifest destiny. It would have to be here, at home, not overseas, where Americans could rationalize away matters as they quickly managed with the Iraqi prison scandal, or the dumping of out-of-date drugs on the African continent so that Amercian drug makers could claim the loss for tax purposes. It would have to be a continuous and lengthy crisis of great dimensions, so that the media couldn't ignore it and the public couldn't turn to other forms of entertainment to avoid reality.
But at a fundamental level, it would have to start at home and in the schools--and right now, the schools are daycares that instill a hatred of curiosity and knowledge, while the home is a source of entertainment and the learning of prejudices. Evolving beyond polarization doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. Quite the opposite, in my opinion.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
From a global point of view, the Bush will win will mark a transformation. All the anti-Bush sentiments, or at least a great deal, while be merged with plain anti-Americanism. While it might not be justified, the full half of the population that voted for Bush deserves all the ire directed at it (at the risk of breaking the forum rules). It's simply beyond me how you can vote for a guy with his record as it is.
I do understand that 48% did vote for Kerry, and most of that probably hates Bush with a passion, but there won't be much distinction in the next four years between Bush or America. In the minds of the global population, America had the chance to get rid of Bush, and they didn't want to. He got a majority of the popular vote (something he didn't do last time), and the GOP's majority's in Congress increased.
I was at school today, and we heard that Kerry conceded over the internet (I live in Canada, btw). Almost anyone I talked to about Bush winning was angry and frustrated. In our minds (and they have been this way for the past four years), America is not a global leader; they're the single largest threat to peace and justice in the world today (but that's another discussion). How can the American public know (or supposedly know) about these global feelings about Bush, and yet elect him? It will be nigh-impossible for America to gain back its global credibility for a long time.
Not to mention the fact that Bush helps terrorism. Bin Laden's message proved exactly this; he's probably in his cave somewhere, chuckling at all his new recruits.
GOP supporters toyed with the idea that Bush will now try and govern from a more centrist platform, to try and "unite America". ...Right.
It's an unfortunate day for the world.
I do understand that 48% did vote for Kerry, and most of that probably hates Bush with a passion, but there won't be much distinction in the next four years between Bush or America. In the minds of the global population, America had the chance to get rid of Bush, and they didn't want to. He got a majority of the popular vote (something he didn't do last time), and the GOP's majority's in Congress increased.
I was at school today, and we heard that Kerry conceded over the internet (I live in Canada, btw). Almost anyone I talked to about Bush winning was angry and frustrated. In our minds (and they have been this way for the past four years), America is not a global leader; they're the single largest threat to peace and justice in the world today (but that's another discussion). How can the American public know (or supposedly know) about these global feelings about Bush, and yet elect him? It will be nigh-impossible for America to gain back its global credibility for a long time.
Not to mention the fact that Bush helps terrorism. Bin Laden's message proved exactly this; he's probably in his cave somewhere, chuckling at all his new recruits.
GOP supporters toyed with the idea that Bush will now try and govern from a more centrist platform, to try and "unite America". ...Right.
It's an unfortunate day for the world.
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.