The bads of Fable

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:27 pm

I'm curious as to why so many people don't like Fable. Seeing as how people here are giving it a 3/10 scoring. I'm curious as to why you people don't like it. So I'm starting a list of the bad things about fable to help myself understand. The only things I'm hearing is the following:

1. You can't customize the main character.
2. The game was to short playing it the first time around.
3. It's not easy to die in this game. (I'm not likely to die in games as it is so I wasn't worried about this too much, but I have almost died in this game b4.)

The way I see it, you're supposed to enjoy the environment and not worry about building up your character. I'm sure the goods outweigh the bad here and that the game is worth a play. If I'm right, why are people giving Fable a 3/10? ...of course people are giving it about an 8-9/10, also.

If the reason you aren't satisfied with the game is because it did not meet your expectations, then that is really your own fault.

SmokeSoft · Post by **SmokeSoft** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:39 pm

Great Game with a few woes

My only real grip with the game is that I feel you only get to enjoy the game ONCE.

As you play through the first time, you've found all this stuff, explored the world from top to bottom, do deeds on both sides of the alignment and made a character both stat wise and visually that you personally enjoyed making.

After that, you really want to do it again, only this time the opposite of your last character. Then the questing begins and its....well...the same.

The world doesn't evolve with the character, which I completely understand. But the quests are not that much different for either good, bad, or neutral characters. You know right where all the Silver Keys are and how to open all the Demon Doors. Seeing as any character can get them and open them, it doesn't seem very difficult the second time through.

My cure for this is to set it aside for awhile. After a few weeks to a month or two, then I may be able to enjoy the game again.

As for Bloodthroe's list of negatives I would add one

4. It is far, far easier to be good than evil. You need to work at being evil while being good comes easily. The stuff that you kill for quests and building are primarily "bad" things worth "good" exp

Cowled Kensai · Post by **Cowled Kensai** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:17 pm

Ditto except for a few things.

I enjoy doing quests even if it is the same one becuase i am a hard core RPer so I imagine me doing it with another personality, but I can't help imagining a bandit saying to a guard "Hey what about my Miranda Rights?!" and the guard shots him with his crossbow like a machine gun

.

To add on the list

5. It is easier to obtain evil aligned equipment that good. Example the only definate place you can buy bright plate is in the Aerna Anteroom while Dark Plate can be bought in about 3 or 4 definate shops.

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:29 pm

well i have three characters good, evil, and neutral. Just because im good doesnt mean i have to get married, maybe ill save that for my nuetral guy. Maybe you felt you had to do all the side quests that were evil with your evil guy and that's what ruined the going through it mroe then once for you. I've split up the side things into three diff groups and even some things ill skip. More things wrong with the game people please. I didn't know these things.

Gromph · Post by **Gromph** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:00 pm

More things wrong

There are several other factors that added to my debated 3/10 rating that i laid apon the game. The enviroment is the biggest, its tiny, there is very little to the world and the parts of it are just sad, I was expecting something in the style of Diablo 2 or Morrowind. Another, there are a few quests that can never be done, and the missions that ther are are way too easy. Then the fact that there are only about 10 optional missions and a total of only abut 14 core missions, that leaves me feeling a little slighted. thirdly the items are fixedm they never change, there are always the same items in the same chests. And finally one of the big ones, the targeting in abysmal, unless you loc to a target your guy just jumps randomly from guy to guy, and even if you do lock it wont always get the guy you are pointing at, or even the guy closest to you.
I admit there are some cool things about this game and they do nerly make up for the bad ones but its just not all it could be

AnimeBrin_XBL · Post by **AnimeBrin_XBL** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:10 pm

I rate Fable 8.5/10, but there are still some things that aren't to well .

The targeting.
The fact that you need Bright Plate Male for one of the Demon doors, but you cant get bacn into the Arena.
And that if you are good, or evil, which ever path, there are some Will that you can't get because of it.
If you have Downloaded content because of XBL, and you are around alot of enemies, the game lags.

But other then that, I loved the game. But it would of been even more appealing if it was like a XBL game, and you could play against other people.

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:37 pm

well there are only two abilities you cant fully master unless you are good or evil and those two are heal life and drain life.

beornica · Post by **beornica** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:41 pm

This game just sucks, it's like swiss cheese, full of holes, holes that lead to **** all. Couldn't they have taken time to at least clean the empty spaces out?? All the potential quests that lead nowhere, Lady Greys sister etc.

This game gets a 2/10 from me, its like playin a demo.

Wild_Bill · Post by **Wild_Bill** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:08 am

Most of whats already been said I agree with.

Too short
Useless Weapons: Why take any Melee weapon thats not Light? Heavy weapons mean your opponents beat down on you that much more because you cant swing it around fast enough, even with Maxed strength.

Need Bigger environments: The maps are so small and set. Nothing to really explore or wander around. Its more stay on the path and go this way. This should have been along the lines of GTA:San Andreas that map is HUGE! almost to big.

Most of the difficult to get items are useless by the time you get them: Some of the legendary items are hidden in High Key count chests or Demon Doors that require you to be further along in the main quest before you can open them. By the time you get them open the item is no longer top of the line. Oh wow I have the Doll Masters Mace but who cares because I already pulled out Harbringer. And I wont have it for very long because the game is almost over.

Lack of Mini's: The big thing in RPG's now seems to be mini games. Fable even has a few. The bar games. But these are either random events (black jack) or memory games (card sort). No real skill is needed.

A difficulty adjustment would have been nice. Adaptive would be even better. This would keep it a challenge.

More quests: Side quests, Main quest. Etc. Just lots more of them were needed.

The buy/sell idea was a nice idea but it needed to be flushed out. Guile did a better job of getting you Steal and Lockpick then it ever gave you for Con the salesman. Lets see I have Maxed guile and still can't get a good deal armor/weapons. At guile 7 it shouldn't matter if the trader only has one in stock, at that point he should be selling it at list price. Same with selling stuff, at Guile 7 I should be able to get at least list price for my items.

Magic: I don't know about the rest of you but, when I'm playing a Mage I like a few offensive spells with range. We could have Lightning or Fireball. Wow big choices. It needed alot more spells. Nothing worse than trying to play a Mage who has to keep pulling out his sword because the useful spells are 0 range.

Homes need to restock: You could loot homes usually once. After you have looted it you wont find anything in it again. Some how all the windows get replaced by you next visit but they don't buy any new cloths or books. This would have been so bad if there was more homes, aka bigger cities and towns.

Let me use the Frying Pan in Borrowstone! It's not technically a weapon so the guards shouldn't have taken it away.

Make being Evil more fun. You loot, pillage, and murder townsfolk developing a bad rap. So the gaurds now keep an eye on you. And the townsfolk run from you (makes trading hard). Out in the boonies thats fine. But it would have been cool in town if when you got out of hand the angry mob came after you with pitch forks and stuff.

Needed a few more Monsters and enemies. Oh look another Hob ...yawn.

All weapons should have an execution move. Okay you knock a Bandit down and stun him. Quick stand over him a run him through with your sword. Excellent. Hey you stunned another one. Quick kick him while he's down and call him hurtful names because your too dumb to use your Mace to bash his friggin skull in.

Make armor more useful. This falls into the same problems as the weapons. Once I have Plate why wear anything else? Other than its funny to kill people while wearing a dress.

A first person point of view option for looking around. Do the makers know how annoying it is for the character to be talking to someone and all I see is his back? Not to mention it hard to defend yourself when you cant see the attacker. Swing the view around so I can see, but the as soon as I lock on and target the guy the camera swings behind the character again and I can't see. Mainly because the character gets to be so big.

And the holes. Obviously the game was supposed to include alot more. And they cut it short to meet a deadline. The dragon, Grey sister, etc. The close ups of my chest when people are talking to me. And how come it keeps track of my furthest chicken punt but no record of how far I can kick a head?

Keep in mind there is alot I liked in this game as well, but you asked for things we didn't like.

beornica · Post by **beornica** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:04 pm

[QUOTE=AnimeBrin_XBL]
[*]The fact that you need Bright Plate Male for one of the Demon doors, but you cant get bacn into the Arena.
[/QUOTE]
You can buy bright platemail off random traders that are wandering around... the ones you see in greatwood, etc., and I THINK the smith in knothole glade has a piece as well.

The previous comment was my husband, not me. Though I do agree completely.Anyone notice this game is just like Zelda for nintendo, save the graphics?

SmokeSoft · Post by **SmokeSoft** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:09 pm

Bad things

I remember reading an interview with the game's designer out of GMR.

If I remember things correctly, most of what we don't like about Fable, He didn't want in or he wanted change/expanded/improved.

The way I see it, because Fable is selling as well as it is, and the gamers are flat out demanding the same things the designers wanted in there, then we can expect a much larger and all reound better Fable II!

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:13 pm

[QUOTE=SmokeSoft]The way I see it, because Fable is selling as well as it is, and the gamers are flat out demanding the same things the designers wanted in there, then we can expect a much larger and all reound better Fable II![/QUOTE]

What tens of thousands of gamers are "demanding" anything from Fable's publishers? All they see is the bottom line, how well a product sells. If Fable with all its flaws sells well, they won't be encouraged to take a much longer time and put in a lot of new features for a Son of Fable. They'll just give us more of the same, so the expenses don't increase. That's the way the game industry has operated since its consolidation and ownership by a few very large publishers: push the same engine and feature list, until it gets so old and revenues drop. Then, and only then, innovate.

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:29 pm

Actually a correction there. Not everyone agrees with you that fable has SO MANY flaws. Remember that Morrowind had it's flaws too. The fact of the matter is I know a lot about the making of Fable and the creators are always trying to do better when making their games. I'm sure whether or not Fable sells well, which it kind of is, the creators are going to try harder to create an even better game next time.

SmokeSoft · Post by **SmokeSoft** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:47 pm

Thanks Bloodthroe.

Gamers are getting smarter and their tastes pickier.

Game designers know that there this is a major industry where one bad gamen can cost you dearly. The designers wanted more out the game. Good sales MAY give them the time and clout to do what they wanted to do the first time.

Fable was a new engine. Take the same engine, tweek it, add more, alter it, and done. A second game in about the same amount of time.

Besides, I'd wait for a good Son of Fable.

I've been waiting on Fallout 3 for years now

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:11 pm

[QUOTE=Bloodthroe]Actually a correction there. Not everyone agrees with you that fable has SO MANY flaws.[/quote]

Correction back at you: I never said it had so many flaws. I wrote "If Fable with all its flaws sells well," meaning however you (anybody) define those flaws to be--all as all-encompassing, including the views of everybody towards a given object. But bear in mind, you created this thread to hear from people who disagreed with you and felt it was heavily flawed. ("I'm curious as to why so many people don't like Fable. Seeing as how people here are giving it a 3/10 scoring. I'm curious as to why you people don't like it.") If you didn't want to hear these opinions, you shouldn't have created the thread. Unless, of course, your emotional investment in the game is such that you can't help arguing.

The fact of the matter is I know a lot about the making of Fable and the creators are always trying to do better when making their games. I'm sure whether or not Fable sells well, which it kind of is, the creators are going to try harder to create an even better game next time.

At least a few people on these boards also have inside contacts at Big Blue Box, Edelman, and/or Microsoft, and some of us have been actively working in the gaming industry for a couple of decades; so we're friends with people at some of these companies, we know something about the game's financial bottom line, the problems it went through, and the headaches Microsoft and Molyneux gave one another. Your reading the PR doesn't make your statement about a followup game being better next time around any more specific, or more accurate. It's the publishers' accounting department that determines the amount of resources spent on any given title.

But all this is pointless, isn't it? All we can give one another is statements based on the best knowledge we have. And neither refers to Fable 2, since it doesn't have a fully allocated budget at this moment. So why are we arguing over what it will be like?

Gamers are getting smarter and their tastes pickier.

Game company executives repeatedly tell developers that the figures show they should dumb down games more and more, but I disagree with this assessment of the market. (I've heard quite a few like this myself, and I've also been on the receiving end of some amazing stories.) I have yet to see any that says gamers are actually getting more sophisticated and intelligent, and I'm curious about the source of your information, Smokesoft. Since your comments and mine really aren't pertinent to this thread, devoted to the negatives of Fable, why don't you post your statistics indicating the above over in the SYM (Speak Your Mind) forum. That will allow this thread to return to its normally scheduled programming.

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:50 pm

Just let it go fable. I did want to hear these opinions, don't try to say that I don't. It's the very point of making the thread. Instead try to speak your own mind.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:05 pm

[QUOTE=Bloodthroe]Just let it go fable. I did want to hear these opinions don't try to say that I don't. [/quote]

Since I didn't say that, I suppose I won't. Good. I'm glad we're in, um, agreement.

Instead try to speak your own mind.

As opposed to the way I was speaking my own mind, I guess. I'll keep your suggestion handy.

EDIT: Okay, my bad for the snappy comebacks, but you've obviously perceived an attack where there was none and, true to form, come out in Darth Bloodthroe mode. Re-reading what I wrote, I don't see any evidence where I attacked you, but I did try to share a joke, as my grin emoticon suggested. In the future, I won't, so this won't happen again, but you really need to lighten up, guy, and not just here. I mean it, for your sake.

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:09 pm

Then tell me what the point of you saying, "If you didn't want to hear these opinions, you shouldn't have created the thread." was if you didn't imply it to some degree? That really shouldn't have even come into conversation if you didn't, because it is common sense to not create a thread about something you don't wish to hear about. Of course if you did have a point, then please share it to better help me from feeling attacked as you said.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:13 pm

Since you Simply. Won't. Let. This. Go, let me give you a hint to the word you should look at, indicating that you weren't being accused of something:

"If you didn't want to hear these opinions, you shouldn't have created the thread."

Any further discussion on this point should be taken to PMs.

Mad Loco · Post by **Mad Loco** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:09 pm

I think you both need to chill, get rid of these posts and get back to the original question at hand which is desciribing the bad points of fable..not argueing over the sequal or how the industry works..i certainly don't care how it works as long as it produces the games i like...which is afterall the real bottom line, when someone doesn't like a game they whine about it and arguements start because of 'information' instead of sticking to the topic at hand.

Now to the thread...

The only problem i have with it is it's to linear..no real exploration. It was to me a lovely change of pace to follow already made routes instead of morrowind where it i could go to one place 1000 different ways, and the way it was graphically done was amazing. I think we shouldn't hit onto the negatives of any game...why bother..what does it accomplish apart from arguements which end up being completely trivial. I see this as a learning stage..this was a long game to design and make..and this is just the tip of the iceberg, what they've added in has given new meanings to rpgs, they may not have conveyed it across as to what it originally was thought to be but I'd say they done a good job, and by their sales so do thousands, if not millions of gamers world wide.

So in all..can we really start getting picky about the game..i'm sure we wouldn't like someone constantly bringing out the bad points of ourselves and others because we're new to the forum..