...suggestions for PC advancement ?

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:48 am

...suggestions for spellsword further development ?

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...could need some suggestions for the further advancement of my spellsword...

build right now:

race: drow male

level 10: rogue 3 - fighter 2 - barb 2 - wizard 3

stats: STR 19+ - DEX 20 - CON 16 - INT 18 - WIS 4 - CHA 5

feats: power att. - dodge - cleave - expertise - imp. crit - dirty fighting - 2x EW-BS

skills: hide - move silently - open lock - disable device - concentration - spellcraft

originally planned build:

level 30: rogue 3 - fighter 4 - barb 3 - ranger 3 - wizard 17

...wanted to level him up yesterday evening - 6 more wizard-levels - but came to the conclusion that there are not that many usefull feats anymore available !

great cleave - quite useless feat in IWD2
SF / GSF - as he should buff himself and then go melee not that usefull
better saves feats - has already excellent saves and SR
imp. initiative - as he should be buffed before battle not that necessary
combat casting - already very high concentration & see above
elemental feats - nice for the elemental resistance - but no use for the additional damage
SW small blade - don't know if the +2 AB are worth it for a 2nd hand weapon
EW-BS 3 - can't take it yet
MW/SW-bludgeoning 3 - actually don't now which weapon he will use on the long run (mace, flail...)

btw. what do you think is the best bludgeoning weapon (including HOF, bonus merchant & BG2 bonus merchant)

...so I thought about giving him ambidex and dual-wielding and change the 3 planned ranger levels into 3 additional wiz levels...

...any suggestions - comments - ideas ?

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Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:46 am

Well best B. Damage weapon?

Well Xvim's Brutal impact... or Phantom staff +5

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:51 pm

i am agreat fan of Scout/Duel-weilder/Self-buffing chars, such as yours Drow spellsword.
i had a version of this build in almost every IWD2 party, and the one most suitting my needs became a Human rogue 3/ranger 3/monk 3/wizard 5 (5th level taken at level 30 to avoid XP penalty)/fighter16

here's a couple of thoughts on this:

- 3 monk levels: 2 VERY usefull monk items for this char (SPOILER Sash of Black Rave & Thunderclap bracers END SPOILER), and an extra +2 to will save.

- favorite class: whatever you prefer, but for me the level 2 wixard spells (Mirror Image!!!) were all i REALLY needed to cast by myself, using scrolls for all the high-level stuff (Tenser's Transformation, etc)

- main weapon: scimitar -> scimitar+1 -> longsword+2+1 cold -> Longsword of Stunning +2 (found it in the SPOILER Black Raven Tomb END SPOILER) -> Scimitar +3, Scimitar +4, Scimitar+5+2d6 electrical & +3 Deflection -> at the end - Bastard Sword of Heroism, Scimitar of Souls for special occasions

- off-hand weapon: the best Short Sword you can find, untill HoF, when you pick up the Golden Heart of <Charname>

- secondary weapon - Mace of Disruptuion, or Flaming Burst Mace of Disruption, although Xvim's hammer (Normal/Hof) are indeed the best one-handed bludgeoning weapons in the game. Other "speciality" weapons were also used (Moonblade, Goblin Slayer, etc)

- armor: once i put on Zuvembi cursed armour, i never looked back. Not even at the Chain of Drakkas. i even took 3 armored arcana feats for it...

- Luck items: i ended up giving this char 2(!) Tymora's Loops. With scimitars he used to score a critical almost every hit!

hope you find this usefull. All power to duel-weilding scouts!!!

EDIT: two feats that i found both useful and very "in-characther" with the intelligent duel-weilding finesse warrior: Blind-Fighting and Expertise.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:38 pm

well, may as well grab your Wizard levels. You can then have most of your defensive magic up and running and take your Barb and Fighter levels and start pouring Feats into specialisation etc.

Improved Intit. is worth taking for any spell caster. The reduced casting time is very handy.

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:38 am

i'm pretty sure improved Initiative is not working. i didn't test by myself, nut it seems to be the general agreement. correct me if i'm wrong.

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:02 am

[QUOTE=Mirk]i am agreat fan of Scout/Duel-weilder/Self-buffing chars, such as yours Drow spellsword.
i had a version of this build in almost every IWD2 party, and the one most suitting my needs became a Human rogue 3/ranger 3/monk 3/wizard 5 (5th level taken at level 30 to avoid XP penalty)/fighter16[/QUOTE]

I love this MC class type and I'm have three different builds in my party this time:

- the 2nd one is: rogue 3 - monk 3 - fighter 4 - wizard 5 - cleric 15

- the 3rd one is similar to the described one but starts with the wizard levels and take the melee levels late...

...not sure about the 16 fighter levels - as I've most usefull feats already at level 10 - and tensers give a better AB then all these additonal levels!

[QUOTE=Mirk]here's a couple of thoughts on this:

- 3 monk levels: 2 VERY usefull monk items for this char (SPOILER Sash of Black Rave & Thunderclap bracers END SPOILER), and an extra +2 to will save.[/QUOTE]

can't take monk levels - already have barb levels...
...btw. there are two PCs in my party with 3 monk levels mixed in

[QUOTE=Mirk][QUOTE=Mirk]- favorite class: whatever you prefer, but for me the level 2 wixard spells (Mirror Image!!!) were all i REALLY needed to cast by myself, using scrolls for all the high-level stuff (Tenser's Transformation, etc)[/QUOTE]

can't remember that there are so many Tenser scrolls available - btw. I think a drow is the perfect choice: SR is great for all melee-fighters, you really need the stat boni for a good build, and with SR and the +2 on will saves you can live with 4 WIS !

[QUOTE=Mirk]- main weapon: scimitar -> scimitar+1 -> longsword+2+1 cold -> Longsword of Stunning +2 (found it in the SPOILER Black Raven Tomb END SPOILER) -> Scimitar +3, Scimitar +4, Scimitar+5+2d6 electrical & +3 Deflection -> at the end - Bastard Sword of Heroism, Scimitar of Souls for special occasions[/QUOTE]

...as said - using the bonus merchant, BG2 merchant and the improved BS-mod (without using the overpowered elemental damage BSs) - I use BS Wroth right now and will later change to BS of Heroism.

[QUOTE=Mirk]- off-hand weapon: the best Short Sword you can find, untill HoF, when you pick up the Golden Heart of <Charname>[/QUOTE]

...right now (level 10) I don't use dual-wiedling yet - but I've the short sword of brilliance from the Battlesquare in my back-pack

- and if I have 180.000(!!!) gold left - I will buy one special short sword from the BG2 bonus merchant

...btw. the Golden Heart of <Charname> you will first get in HOF !

[QUOTE=Mirk]- secondary weapon - Mace of Disruptuion, or Flaming Burst Mace of Disruption, although Xvim's hammer (Normal/Hof) are indeed the best one-handed bludgeoning weapons in the game. Other "speciality" weapons were also used (Moonblade, Goblin Slayer, etc)[/QUOTE]

AFAIK there are a few nice bludgeoning weapons - but most of them are random drops - so I wait with my secondary weapon feats until I find a good one...

...btw. ever tried the Mace of Disruptuion at Kuldahar pass ? - ...unbelievable !!!

[QUOTE=Mirk]- armor: once i put on Zuvembi cursed armour, i never looked back. Not even at the Chain of Drakkas. i even took 3 armored arcana feats for it...[/QUOTE]

I invested a huge amount of gold in a drow chain-mail from the BG2 merchant (similar to Drakkas)

...zuvembies is not bad - but I will rely on my drows SR or cast deathward if necessary - and I don't like the 15% spell-failure and the capped DEX-bonus (having 24/28 DEX! -> +7/+9 AC-bonus)

[QUOTE=Mirk]- Luck items: i ended up giving this char 2(!) Tymora's Loops. With scimitars he used to score a critical almost every hit![/QUOTE]

you're are really lucky - it's a random drop AFAIR ?

...but do they stack ?!

btw. I would use executioner eye and split the 2 T loops on 2 PCs!

[QUOTE=Mirk]hope you find this usefull. All power to duel-weilding scouts!!![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mirk]EDIT: two feats that i found both useful and very "in-characther" with the intelligent duel-weilding finesse warrior: Blind-Fighting and Expertise. [/QUOTE]

...have expertise already - very usefull and more or less the only chance to get an HOF-compatible AC for your melee fighters !

is blind-fight that good ? - but maybe not a bad choice for a drow

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silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:18 am

[QUOTE=Mirk]i'm pretty sure improved Initiative is not working. i didn't test by myself, nut it seems to be the general agreement. correct me if i'm wrong.[/QUOTE]

I also read this several times on different forums...

...but never tested it myself !

AFAIK there is a mod that gives you a potion to correct this - but don't know where...

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silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:22 am

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...but back to the main question: 3 ranger levels or 3 wizard levels and then taking the 2 feats ?

...and do you think the elemental feats are worth to take for a mainly melee fighter ?

...or what feats would you take else ?

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silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:41 am

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think I will take the 3 wizard levels and take ambidex & dual-wielding as feats

...cause I only loose:

01 BAB
01 feat (wizard level 20 bonus feat)
01 favoured enemy boni
18 HP
02 fortitude save

...but I gain:

01 level 7 spell
02 level 8 spells
03 level 9 spells
03 caster level multiplier
01 will save

EDIT: it's really awfull how useless rangers are under 3rd edition rules !!

...once ranger clerics were one of my favoured MC and really powerfull !

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Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:23 am

Little bit off topic... so it is written in black.. (improved iniative)

Well that feat works for me.. and -1 to spell casting time is sweet... It is a must for every spell caster in this game.. But as for ''general agreement''.. dont think taht everything that majority or minority says is right.. try things out by yourself.. it doesn't take long.. if you use dale keeper..only thing taht you need to have is 2 identical spell casters.. but other has that feat and other does not.. then make them cast same spell at same time.. and if one with that feat finishes that spell faster it works.. but try it few to just be sure..

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:09 pm

Improved Init. is definitely worth taking and does work for me. Casting Mirror Image at speed 1 means very little chance of interuption before your images kick in and start absorbing hits. Same with Improved Invis. casting time of 4 is long when you are already in combat. Dropping it to 3 is very handy. Same with the Symbol Spells.

Your character looks to be essentially a wizard with some fighting ability and rogue levels added for sneak attacks and lock opening. Do you find that your Low CHA increases the price of most items in the stores? How do you play this character? I think your initial design is not a bad idea, but 17 Levels of Wizard will mean you sacrifice quite a bit of HP and Base Attack. Still all the mirror images and other defensive buff will help make up for this.

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:58 am

[QUOTE=Heidrek]Improved Init. is definitely worth taking and does work for me. Casting Mirror Image at speed 1 means very little chance of interuption before your images kick in and start absorbing hits. Same with Improved Invis. casting time of 4 is long when you are already in combat. Dropping it to 3 is very handy. Same with the Symbol Spells.[/QUOTE]

...if it works imp. initiative might be a good idea even for melee-builds - reduced self-buffing time during combat should be worth a feat !

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silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:31 am

[QUOTE=Heidrek]Your character looks to be essentially a wizard with some fighting ability and rogue levels added for sneak attacks and lock opening. Do you find that your Low CHA increases the price of most items in the stores? How do you play this character? I think your initial design is not a bad idea, but 17 Levels of Wizard will mean you sacrifice quite a bit of HP and Base Attack. Still all the mirror images and other defensive buff will help make up for this.[/QUOTE]

...it's not a solo-build so CHA doesn't matter as my sorceress loves shopping

...as I decided to skip the 3 planned ranger levels he will have 20 wizard levels...

AB

20 wiz levels gives a BAB +10 with a +10 on AB from tensers (level 20 caster) you have will get exatly the +10 AB back which make the difference between fighter and wizard !

...so he will have BAB 19 +10 (Tensers) at level 30 - and a level 30 fighter only has one more !

...when using M-sword he gets another +24 (!) on AB !!!
...or with black blade +10 on AB !

AC

...the only real disadvantage is that he can't recast MI for 20 rounds after using tensers !

but with a HOF-compatible AC, 1xMI, blink & blur...

...stoneskin, haste & imp. invis. (will all be recast on him by my sorc if necessary)

...barkskin from my druid & some divine buffs he should be really hard to hit!

HP

...he will only have 261 HP on level 30
- but will get additional 20d6 HP (~100HP with luck +3) from tensers
- and will have CON+4 if necessary (another 60HP)
- could use trollish fortitude another ~80-100 HP

- alltogether he should have ~ 500 HP !

...and btw. for what does I have 2 clerics with heal spells in my party & 2 other casters with stoneskin

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