I don't understand how everyone can be just as right as each other when they believe different things. If one person believes God exists and another believes God does not exist, either God exists or does not exist so one person is right and one is wrong - one is more right than the other.
There's the third possibility that the universe is perceived inadequately by creatures who are too small to understand its complexities. As a result, what appears to be self-contradictory might be nothing of the sort. Had you asked a scientist 100 years ago whether it was possible for any particle of matter of exist in two different locations simulataneously, for example, they would have looked at you as if you were mad. But there are subatomic particles that do precisely that. The "truth" is this case may simply be that the mechanistic and deific explanation arrive at an identical result, or one that is mutually satsifactory to both conditions.
Religion
IMO, this whole discussion is really about something much deeper than 'do you believe in god' or 'do you associate yourself with a religion'. To me, it's hard to even begin thinking about it, because it leads to so many question, I think, why bother?
I do not believe in an entity called 'god'. I think that entity is a good personification of what I do believe, just something to talk to, something a bit more tangible than the 'higher powers' in which I believe (the one's who are responsible for everything from the big bang, to water, to creating human life to mending broken bones, to determining what kind of day I'm gonna have (with a great deal of human input, of course)).
But does anyone who believes in god REALLY believe? Is anyone who is an athiest REALLY an athiest? This is all part of the human condition, and human conditioning. We've all been conditioned for millions of years (or possibly, a bit under six thousand, but still) to ask these questions about 'religion', or lack their of. Religion may be a total farce, the head of some old tribe decided he must evoke some higher power to have more control over his tribe, and it just caught on with other despots. Or, it may have happened as the Judeo-Christian history seems to tell it- god was always there, god is responsible for everything, everyone believed in god, even those who didn't follow him, everyone had proof that god existed, and a few bad apples didn't like the idea of a higher power, and broke away.
Of course, no one knows the answer. One could just say 'Everyone has their own compass, their own faith, their own beliefs, and eveyone can just decide for themselves', but of course, do any of us have our own beliefs? our own opinions? there have been too many thousands of generations before us to really be sure that everying about the human psyche is anything more than conditioning.
To contradict my last statement- I personaly have my own 'proof' that my religion, and my belief structure, is correct for me. And not in any small way- there is a 'god' (or whatever he represents), who is responsible in a way for everything that happens everywhere for better or for worse. I have faith in my religion- whenever formaly requesting something, I always speak in Hebrew, at the very least bookending my prayers with traditional prayers. I have faith that no matter how crappy this world gets (and it is a pretty crappy world), I, as a Jew, will persevere. I don't believe in the bible, but as I said, I've done my thing as a Jew, and it seems to have gotten regular responses.
That could also be a manifestation of something else- I'm very comfortable being Jewish ethnicaly. I live in the most beautiful country in the world, where I am at home, I automaticaly can find a friend or a place to sleep virtually anywhere in the world, and it really makes me feel good to think how many important people were Jewish, espeicaly as an aspiring filmmaker, where I know that a lot of my idols are part of a rather small group which I'm also a part of.
I am not a fan of science, not a fan of modern way of thinking, because I think both just keep on trying to advance at the expense of everything else, and we will reach a limit one day (Einstein's WWIV theory is dead on, IMO). So, I have a natural aversion to arguing about athiesm (which is just as much escapism as religion is), as I've been conditioned, through rather obvious circumstances, to dislike modern way of thinking, which usualy equates to a 'European way of thinking'.
So it's all conditioning. Yet I have faith I am right. A faith which may or may not be just conditioning. A conclusion which leads us nowhere. So basicaly, my answer to this whole thread is the exact same thing as everyone else- it's each man to him or her self on the matter, but looking through the nihilistic lens of, we can all be wrong, and none of our thoughts about religion are really our own.
Morlock 1- who finds it strangely encouraging about the human race that I can find boundless optimism in seemingly boundless nihilism.
Morlock 2- who has been getting way too philosophical lately
I do not believe in an entity called 'god'. I think that entity is a good personification of what I do believe, just something to talk to, something a bit more tangible than the 'higher powers' in which I believe (the one's who are responsible for everything from the big bang, to water, to creating human life to mending broken bones, to determining what kind of day I'm gonna have (with a great deal of human input, of course)).
But does anyone who believes in god REALLY believe? Is anyone who is an athiest REALLY an athiest? This is all part of the human condition, and human conditioning. We've all been conditioned for millions of years (or possibly, a bit under six thousand, but still) to ask these questions about 'religion', or lack their of. Religion may be a total farce, the head of some old tribe decided he must evoke some higher power to have more control over his tribe, and it just caught on with other despots. Or, it may have happened as the Judeo-Christian history seems to tell it- god was always there, god is responsible for everything, everyone believed in god, even those who didn't follow him, everyone had proof that god existed, and a few bad apples didn't like the idea of a higher power, and broke away.
Of course, no one knows the answer. One could just say 'Everyone has their own compass, their own faith, their own beliefs, and eveyone can just decide for themselves', but of course, do any of us have our own beliefs? our own opinions? there have been too many thousands of generations before us to really be sure that everying about the human psyche is anything more than conditioning.
To contradict my last statement- I personaly have my own 'proof' that my religion, and my belief structure, is correct for me. And not in any small way- there is a 'god' (or whatever he represents), who is responsible in a way for everything that happens everywhere for better or for worse. I have faith in my religion- whenever formaly requesting something, I always speak in Hebrew, at the very least bookending my prayers with traditional prayers. I have faith that no matter how crappy this world gets (and it is a pretty crappy world), I, as a Jew, will persevere. I don't believe in the bible, but as I said, I've done my thing as a Jew, and it seems to have gotten regular responses.
That could also be a manifestation of something else- I'm very comfortable being Jewish ethnicaly. I live in the most beautiful country in the world, where I am at home, I automaticaly can find a friend or a place to sleep virtually anywhere in the world, and it really makes me feel good to think how many important people were Jewish, espeicaly as an aspiring filmmaker, where I know that a lot of my idols are part of a rather small group which I'm also a part of.
I am not a fan of science, not a fan of modern way of thinking, because I think both just keep on trying to advance at the expense of everything else, and we will reach a limit one day (Einstein's WWIV theory is dead on, IMO). So, I have a natural aversion to arguing about athiesm (which is just as much escapism as religion is), as I've been conditioned, through rather obvious circumstances, to dislike modern way of thinking, which usualy equates to a 'European way of thinking'.
So it's all conditioning. Yet I have faith I am right. A faith which may or may not be just conditioning. A conclusion which leads us nowhere. So basicaly, my answer to this whole thread is the exact same thing as everyone else- it's each man to him or her self on the matter, but looking through the nihilistic lens of, we can all be wrong, and none of our thoughts about religion are really our own.
Morlock 1- who finds it strangely encouraging about the human race that I can find boundless optimism in seemingly boundless nihilism.
Morlock 2- who has been getting way too philosophical lately
"Veni,Vidi,vici!"
(I came,I saw,I conquered!) Julius Ceasar
(I came,I saw,I conquered!) Julius Ceasar
[QUOTE=Arrylium]I'm not offended or anything (just in case you cared) - for interest would you be able to explain why you belief theism prevents one from living life to the fullest?
Interestingly enough I believe everyone lives in faith. It's who or what your faith is in, that people question.[/QUOTE]I am not trying to offend, I promise
(but please tell me if you think I'm not as offensive as an internet atheist should be and I can try harder)
Life must be lived for a purpose, or many purposes. These are motivating beliefs in people, forces that people will live for. Theism mistakes inward conditions for external truths, IMO, and therefore a life lived to please God, to be pious, to fulfil categorical ethical commandments or to reach the afterlife is a life living for a foible in the liver's own mind, somewhat like living for the sake of a headache. The good motivations for a life must always come from the intercourse between the individual and their situation. Theists however live for some aspect of the intercourse between themselves and the 'eternal', the 'absolute', something 'transcendental' - which, IMO exists only in their mind. For an analogy, I think a good life is a conversation with the outside world, but theists are talking to themselves, without realising it.
Of course I think that theists can, and in the majority of cases do live good lives, but I think the quality of life grows in proportion to one's forgetting about the mystical and being faithless. True faith is a destructive disassociative like ketamine.
Interestingly enough I believe everyone lives in faith. It's who or what your faith is in, that people question.[/QUOTE]I am not trying to offend, I promise
(but please tell me if you think I'm not as offensive as an internet atheist should be and I can try harder) Life must be lived for a purpose, or many purposes. These are motivating beliefs in people, forces that people will live for. Theism mistakes inward conditions for external truths, IMO, and therefore a life lived to please God, to be pious, to fulfil categorical ethical commandments or to reach the afterlife is a life living for a foible in the liver's own mind, somewhat like living for the sake of a headache. The good motivations for a life must always come from the intercourse between the individual and their situation. Theists however live for some aspect of the intercourse between themselves and the 'eternal', the 'absolute', something 'transcendental' - which, IMO exists only in their mind. For an analogy, I think a good life is a conversation with the outside world, but theists are talking to themselves, without realising it.
Of course I think that theists can, and in the majority of cases do live good lives, but I think the quality of life grows in proportion to one's forgetting about the mystical and being faithless. True faith is a destructive disassociative like ketamine.
SYMISTANI COMMUNIST