Average Party LEVEL

Iliphar Nelnuve · Post by **Iliphar Nelnuve** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:11 am

Hi everybody!

I'm just entering the Monastery in normal mode with an APL of 7 (six characters (16 / 13 / 1.1.1.1.11 / 1 / 1 / 1 =47/6=7.833 rounddown). Is anyone familiar with this subject and can tell me if it's good or not (I mean that my level is too high or too low?)
Thanx
Hasta la vista

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:42 am

I guess it's OK, my party of four was around 14-16 when I got there. Well, the average is a bit low, but that really doesn't count. Are you satisfied with all your 1st lvl chars? You might consider uusing just one of them, so that he/she will develop faster (the rest of the party is strong enough to deal with anything, I guess - depends on their classes, though).

Iliphar Nelnuve · Post by **Iliphar Nelnuve** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:17 am

Allright Brynn, I don't know if what I'm gonna say is considered as a spoiler or not but in any case I'll write it in Dark Slate Gray so I avoid troubles.
so:
My question is have you read the JUPP (I think I found it on weidu). Its very very interesting and I learned a lot, especially about character levels (party level also, and it's incidence on the XP gain). I composed my team using Jukka's exemple of Melee & Arcane Party (Ok it's not my imagination but by mixing both, I'm really happy with this team).
Basically, my team is: NOrmal mode
- Bombardier & buffer(diplomat): drow Sorcerer (currently lvl 16, for spell access) (HP 120)
- Tank & healer & buffer: deep gnome Dreadmaster of Baine (Lvl 13 (will jump to 17 asap) (HP 130)
- Decoy & debuffer & buffer & utility-infielder & bombardier: deep gnome Rogue (1) / Paladin (1) / Monk Old order (1) / Sorcerer (1) / Illusionist (11) (I will squatt until reaches Illus. lvl 17 then add one level as Cleric (for the scrolls) (HP72)
And I have 3 charcters at level 1. But one of them is designed to advance all his levels at once : Drow rogue (1) squatt and then add 17 lvls as Diviner. then squatt again a bit...(then more diviner I think

)
And the 2 other, well... they are for muling purpose (They carry heavy Items and disappear before the party receive quest XP (like monastery chambers for exemple). Obviously they are under the effects of Invisibility and Stoneskin (just in case they hit a Skulltrap or something stupid happens..ya never know).
I managed to finish all monastery chambers with my Sorcerer (animate dead helps a lot, but I kill myself the summon before killing the monk so the summon don't take a share of the XP...) in less than 15 min.
Do you think I could finish the game with my sorc. at lvl 18, Healer lvl 17, and decoy illus.lvl 17 ???
Where do you think I'll get my 3 (or 4 with the Diviner) character maxed (lvl 30) in HOF?Thanx for your answer
Hasta la vista

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:02 pm

Do you think I could finish the game with my sorc. at lvl 18, Healer lvl 17, and decoy illus.lvl 17 ???
(They carry heavy Items and disappear before the party receive quest XP

How do they "disappear"? You remove them from the party before gaining xp and then import them again? That must be tiring

Does it really worth it?

Unfortunately I don't know how far you can get in HOF. It is said that it's not recommended to even start HOF with a party lower than lvl 20 - and I'm petty sure you will need a full party... Heidrek may tell you more about HOF, he's more familiar with it.

Do you think I could finish the game with my sorc. at lvl 18, Healer lvl 17, and decoy illus.lvl 17 ???

Your sorcerer will definitely reach lvl 18, no doubt about that. But your illusionist is lvl 11 right now, I don't know how he will gain 6 more lvls... Unless you use Dalekeeper

Especially that he's multiclassed, that means some XP penalty too, I think (see the sticky "Kayless' guide to multiclassing").

Are you sure you need all of those 1st lvl chars? Why not keep only one of them (the one you want to develop) - this way they won't gain xp from battles either. Their 1st lvl skills don't help your high lvl party much... But it's just a suggestion, of course

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:35 pm

level 1 chars are just for XP bonus... Brynn

But i would recomend having one tank..

But as for HoF.. there is some threads.. you should see those.. same tactics should work with you too..

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:51 am

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]level 1 chars are just for XP bonus... Brynn[/QUOTE]

You mean that the party gets more xp for killing a goblin just b/c there's a lvl 1 char in? Even if the rest is around 17?

That's... er.. cheese

Iliphar Nelnuve · Post by **Iliphar Nelnuve** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:02 am

Exact Brynn....spoiler:now you get the point of "muling". Let's say: Monastery: with an Average Party Level of 11, I get 162xp for each monk I kill with my 4 characters (16 13 11/1/1/1/1 1). That means 40.5 for each one. If I add 2 level 1 characters, Then I got 300xp/monk wich means 50/character, because my APL is 7 (47/6 rounddown) instead of 11 .....sweet no?

But my question was not about the amount of XP I'll get at the end of the game, but if I can Actually REACH the end with only 3 High level characters (18 17 and 17 1 1 1 1) and manage to Kill Isair&Madae & others..?

Thanx for your answer or Heidrek's one (or anyone who got the point)
Hasta la vista

Iliphar Nelnuve · Post by **Iliphar Nelnuve** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:12 am

Hello Heidrek

So, I actually do have a tank : Healer dreadmaster level 13 (hits pretty hard with buffs).
For my Illusionist, he won't get xp penalties because I don't take more than 1 or 2 levels from the other classes than Illus.(prefered class) and I don't need dalekeeper as he gets enough xp (with the level squatting and the muling and another technique I got(i'll tell you if you want to), he's got plenty of XP to spend..

)

And for the 1st level characters, well I kinda like them as the make me earn more XP for each kill. (of course, never forget to trash them before receiving quest xp..)
Ciao

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:53 am

[QUOTE=Brynn]You mean that the party gets more xp for killing a goblin just b/c there's a lvl 1 char in? Even if the rest is around 17?

That's... er.. cheese

[/QUOTE]

Yes you do.. becuse overall(spelling?) party level is now lower.. so you could get lot more XP..

neocool00 · Post by **neocool00** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:09 am

[QUOTE=Brynn]You mean that the party gets more xp for killing a goblin just b/c there's a lvl 1 char in? Even if the rest is around 17?

That's... er.. cheese

[/QUOTE]
Byrnn,
This is what I've discovered in regards to gaining xp. First off, you've got to consider your APL (Average Party Level). This is the number of party members divided by total number of levels rounded down. So lets say you have 4 members (2 humans, 1 drow and 1 deep gnome). The humans are level 8, drow is 6 and dg is 5. Your total levels would be 27. Your APL would be 6 (27/4=6.75 ~ 6 due to round down rule). Now, we also know that a solo character between the level of 1 and 6 gets 33 xp from a single goblin. So if your party of 4 slays a goblin, you'll get 33xp to share amongst your team. Same example, but lets say your Drow bumps up a level. Now your APL is 7 (28/4=7). So lets say you slay another goblin. I know from experience that the goblin now is going to give you 25 xp because your APL is above 6, the amount of xp gained is reduced because you are an "experienced fighter/mage/etc." Ideally, to get the most xp out of the game, you would need to keep your APL at 6, but IMO, that is next to impossible. Also, all of my facts and figures are based on Normal mode, I haven't played HOF, so I don't know if there is an increase in xp or not, but that would be the only difference between HOF and Normal mode in calculating xp gains from battles.

This actually brings up another interesting point that I've pondered. If you keep your APL at 6 past Targos, you get more xp from battles but less monsters (in same cases less powerful monsters). I remember one time I was playing the part outside of the fortress and every tower was filled with orcs, but my APL was pretty high as I was only playing w/ 3 members and i wasn't squatting. When I got to the same part with my solo Monk level 7, I didn't find any orcs on any of the towers except for the one up by the main gate. So if you squat your characters, there is a chance you'll face less enemies than if you don't and you may face weaker ones as well, but it all depends on your APL. Just some food for thought.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:24 am

Well, that's new for me

I like roleplaying, therefore don't approve of this kind of cheese, but a nice way to get mor xp, that's true. However, I found that I can manage very well taking the normal way, too (where I simply play and let my chars improve as they're meant to).

@Iliphar: I guess you can finish the game with this party, though you might encounter some problems later on. It's good that your strongest classes are Dreadmaster, Illusionist and Sorcerer (magic is always the best weapon, I say) - but are they efficient in battle? I mean, if you're satisfied with them in melee combat as well, that's OK. I guess you'll be fine. I had a party of four (Mage/Cleric/Fighter/Rogue) and I'm sure I could've done the final battle without the rogue, too. So three high lvl chars are capable to do the job, imho.