Taking on dragons

Tulkas the Stout · Post by **Tulkas the Stout** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 5:55 am

I'm soon to take on Lord Fierkraag, which I've heard is a red dragon. Is there a way to kill this prick without losing to much of my faithful men?
Spells of particular type or magical items?

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 6:04 am

Check out the strategy guides from this site.

Skeelo · Post by **Skeelo** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 3:53 pm

Summon everything you can, specially fire elems, haste, bless, chant, improved invis, lower resist, MM, cloudkill, lightning bolt. Good archer also helps.

rumagent · Post by **rumagent** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 8:53 pm

You should have breach as either spell or scroll. It helps a LOT.

Don't do the fog of war/cloudkill thing. It robs you of a great battle...

------------------
"Beyond the grave they will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for their happiness we shall allure them with the reward of heaven and eternity." -- Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

Jurosementalistile · Post by **Jurosementalistile** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 9:03 pm

I agree with Rumagent. Standing out of range and using area of affect spells is no fun, and it's kinda cheating. Breach is also very helpful, although he still seems to get a few free hits after you cast it. I found that with most of the powerful baddies in the game. Pissed me off, it did.
Anyway, I killed all the dragons in the game with a fighter/mage. Beef him up with stoneskins, Tensors transformation etc. (Although not invisibility or mirror image, as dragons can see through these).
If your PC isn't a fighter/mage, perhaps you could use one of your mages to draw fire, and then move in the others, although that probably wouldn't work very well.
If you can cast simulacrum, that is very useful (Best spell in the game, in my opinion). But if you're going after Firkraag, you're probably not high enough level for that yet.

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 9:02 am

Drop considerations about "great battle", etc. Firkraag belongs to impossible battles in the game. You cannot face him. He will cast teleport fields and different sleep-like spells. In the meantime he kills your party by means of area-effect spells. Do not forget that Resist Fire spell makes you fireproof against NORMAL fire, not against dragon breath and some other spells (Resist Fire offers 80% resistance here). Therefore, use tricks. I think that the best one against dragons is the "Fake Talk" strategy described elsewhere on these pages. Do the following:
1. Apporach Firkraag
2. Pause the game
3. Let one of your guys to pretend that he will TALK with Firkraag.
4. Assign ATTACK to all your guys (including the "talking" one)
5. Unpause the game for 5 sec. (No longer! Firkraag will wait for the talk for one round, then he becomes hostile)
6. IF(Firkraag is dead)
quit
ELSE
go to step 2
END IF
Fake Talk is a sure fire method. You do not need any special spells or potions. All what you need are good weapons (at least +2).

rumagent · Post by **rumagent** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 11:05 am

He most certainly can be taken down by "leagal" means. Imo there is no difference between using fake talk/Fog of war and using, say, shadowkeeper. It is cheating.

Yes, you a probably going to take some casualties. Just like in PnP roleplay, when you go up against a dragon people get hurt! If you do not like that - do not fight the dragon. It is that simple.

------------------
"Beyond the grave they will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for their happiness we shall allure them with the reward of heaven and eternity." -- Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 12:08 pm

My dragonslayer tips are these.

Surround the dragon with your characters, that way his wingbuffet will not knock all of you down.

Warriors using the best weapons, dragonslaying ones are a good bonus, using haste, strength potions, potions of fire resistance and potions of spell immunity.

The dragon will attack that which is closest to him so your fighters will get stomped a lot, retreat with one to heal up while the other gets the dragons attention. Summoned monsters really give you a needed break to heal them fighters.

Mages should immediately launch as many Lower Resistance as they can, preferably using the Spell Sequencer spell. Follow up with Greater Malison, slow, chaos, blindness, deafness, and everything else that could turn the battle in your favor. Death spells have a tendency to not work but I did manage to turn Firkraag into a squirrel once.

Other than that I heartily recommend Mordenkainens sword as dragons can not wound it or use spells against it. Savor the few moments that sword will buy you.

Clerics should focus on healing the fighters but cast all the Doom spells they have after resistance is down. Makes him weak as a kitten for a few moments. Before I turned him into a squirrel he apparently had the worst Thac0 one could imagine and didn't make a single save. Doom is a very underestimated spell since the effects of it are cumulative. Insect plauge and Summon insects are good druid spells and the Harm spell is a lottery ticket one should not disregard. A souped up cleric can get a lucky shot and bring the dragons HP down to 1 in a single blow.

A high level monk could kill him in a single blow using the quivering palm. Don't count on luck though.

Traps is the thieves way to go as the dragons do not attack you before you attack them.

Using this strategy I won against the dragons in the game with all the characters alive. It takes a lot of pausing and running around, a dragon is nothing one should feel ashamed for running away from, but in the end you will prevail.

Do not use the flaws in the AI as fighting him "on his terms" really makes you feel a little proud when you win. I pondered putting the squirrel Firkraag in a box and give him to Xzar under the guise that it was the transformed Montaron. Better be a halfmile away when that dispel magic hits home. ;-)

[This message has been edited by Thomas (edited 12-07-2000).]

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 12:35 pm

Get a good 19th level halfling kensai wielding Crom Fayer mainhand & belm offhand. Then cast improves haste on the guy to get your attacks / round up to 10 and kill firkraag in a single round with the guy. It should be doable?

rumagent · Post by **rumagent** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 1:09 pm

"I pondered putting the squirrel Firkraag in a box and give him to Xzar under the guise that it was the transformed Montaron. Better be a halfmile away when that dispel magic hits home. ;-)"

*ROFL* That would be SO cool. "btw you were wrong Xzar, they transformed your little friend into a squirrel, not a bird... Well, urm, forget about the reward-thing... gotta run"

------------------
"Beyond the grave they will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for their happiness we shall allure them with the reward of heaven and eternity." -- Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

Jurosementalistile · Post by **Jurosementalistile** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 8:04 pm

Firkraag is not that harsh. As I said, I took him out with my fighter/mage by himself, at level 9/12. Fire resistance most certainly DOES work. Thats one of the advantages of using only one character. Give him high resistance, and the breath weapon really isn't very scary anymore (When I took on the shadow dragon, I thought there was some bug, as it wasn't doing anything. I realised later it was because my character was wearing amulet of power and was therefore completely immune to it's breath weapon).
The same is true of all Firkraags area of affect spells. If there is only one target, they lose their potency.
A single, hasted, dual-wielding warrior with strength of 19+ can take him out reasonably quick (after breach is cast).
Why bother playing the game if you're gonna use cheap tricks like that talking thing? Do you really find that fun?

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 7:57 am

A few questions:
1. Clerics should cast doom, mages should lower resistance, ... How many clerics and mages are there in the party? And haven't they got their spells interrupted by the dragon's attack? Sorry, my experience is different.
2. lvl 19 fighter ... Which one? Do you want to wait until you gain lvl 19?
3. The dragon will NOT concentrate on the closest fighter. He will cast dragon breath (area effect spell). Unless you have high level guys in your party, your saving throws are lamentable (except paladins). You will lose HP fast.
4. Well the following method may work:
a) send the best fighter, let him try to hit Firkraag and when he becomes too much hurt, put him out of sight.
b) heal him and send him back.
How does it differ form Fake Talk? Yes, there are differences:
a) you lose bags of healing potions
b) you lose time
But both methods have the same denominator. Improvisation. In both cases, you cannot face the enemy. You cannot prepare for the battle and say: "Firkraag, it's time to pay for your deeds!" I think, Firkraag is foul at the given phase of the game (i.e., rather early phase) - the characters are low-level, saving throws are bad, resistances are next to none. Therefore, Fake Talk.
5. What to do with Firkraag's Teleport Fields (followed by Fireball)? When you run toward Firkraag, you will be teleported away and hit by a fireball. Well, if you succeed with Silence ..., but you has to succeed first.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 8:10 am

At 1. I can remark that you can cast these spells BEFORE initiating combat. You should remember that Firkraag is neutral (blue circle) at that time, giving you ample opportunity to cast whatever spells you like (as long as they don't damage him!).

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 9:18 am

I'm a bit baffled by Radeks response but here are my answers.

1. I usually have two clerics and two mages in my party. By surrounding Firkraag I did not mean to stand right next to him but rather as far away as your characters range permits. Only the fighters stand close to him. I have never had my clerics or mages blasted by his breath, they where out of his range and the fighters plus summoned monsters stopped him from approaching the spellcasters, nor have I been teleported around so I am a bit confused by your problem.

2. Level 19 fighter is a bit confusing as well since that would mean one just about have finished the game before taking on Firkraag. I rather not wait that long meself.

3. HP goes down fast, as would be expected, but for some reason I have found that he does consentrate on my closest fighter or whatever is closest to him. He only goes after the spellcasters when they toss damaging spells at him, like magic missiles.

4. When I play the fighters that goes up against Firkraag are only decoys, thus boosted heavily with protective spells and hasted, so that the spellcasters get the time to do their work. Most of the time they do only negible damage to the dragon but it adds up over time. Potions of spell immunity grants the ability to make every saving throw and potions of invunerability adds +5 to them. The fighters usually don't drink any healing potions but are rather healed with the Heal spell or ressurected.

I usually have prepared and planned for the fight from far ahead in the game, stocking up potions that I will need and finding the appropriate spells. I played trough the game five times now and so far have only lost one fighter, Minsc, one time. I feel that you are a bit unfair when you compare this tactic to fake talking Firkraag since fake talk lets you beat on him to your hearts desire without any risk to yourself. Wouldn't it just be easier to just use an editor to give you the items he has and the xp for the kill at once?

5. Well as I said I never had Firkraag teleport me around. That would indeed ruin my tactics completely though.

Didn't know that one could toss spells at a blue circled person without having them go hostile either. That seems kind of odd to say the least.

rumagent · Post by **rumagent** » Fri Dec 08, 2000 10:58 am

In resonse to Radek.

1. I had 1 cleric (Viconia) and 2 mages (jan/edwin). They should stay out of range of the breath attacks!

2. I used a different approach. I swarmed him with all my fighters (all buffed up with spells) and summoned monsters. That keeps him away from your spellcasters. Keep summoning, so that you have 5 monsters at all times!

3. With proper protection, the damage can be reduced.

4. With 8+ fighters/monsters swarming him, there is plenty of opportunity for retreat and heal. This is imo VERY different from fake talk. Hell, I even think it is realistic that you can retreat a fighter and heal him, when Firkraag is facing 7-8 monsters in melee range + spellcasters... but that may just be me.

My party was at around level 14 when I fought him. This is not really a low-level party. In fact, I doubt that a party at about level 9 could take hime down (but I am betting that some of you guys have done it), which is one of the reasons why, you can say "I'll be back!" (ok maybe not those excact words) to Firkraag.

------------------
"Beyond the grave they will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for their happiness we shall allure them with the reward of heaven and eternity." -- Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

[This message has been edited by rumagent (edited 12-08-2000).]

BadLoser · Post by **BadLoser** » Sat Dec 09, 2000 9:17 pm

Firkraag is not hard at all.. =) It took me maybe a half minute to kill him. I think my ppl were around lvl 10.. My 2 fighters and my cleric surrounded him, and my archer shot him from a distance. While my 2 mages blasted him with lower resist/breach and then magic arrow. =) I used some potions, but none of my men were in danger.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Sun Dec 10, 2000 3:27 pm

To make the battle a real walkover just summon a pit fiend with your cleric and fight along with the monster with your "dragonslayer". Be sure to have Firkraag focus its attention on the fiend by moving your fighter into battle right after the fiend.

Jurosementalistile · Post by **Jurosementalistile** » Mon Dec 11, 2000 4:20 am

Pit fiend? Thats a ninth level spell isn't it? If you can cast those, battle should be a walkover any way you do it...

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Mon Dec 11, 2000 4:58 am

9th level mage spell but also a 7th level priest spell (you'll get it at 14th level).

Chris Boney · Post by **Chris Boney** » Mon Dec 11, 2000 5:25 am

I noticed that most dragons fall easily to Mordekainen's Sword. Not Fiirkrag though, because you don't have the spell at that point yet. So, the other dragons killed the first Mordekainen's Sword with a finger of death, but then I cast a second one and they will keep trying to hack on it, and they can't hit nor damage it since it is immune to everything (except again, to instant killer spells like disruption ray or finger of death and the like)

Chris