HoF or Normal mode, what's your Fav.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:22 pm

I'm about to finish HoF Mode with my first party and wanted to see what you guys all thought of the HoF and Normal modes, what do you prefer?

Personally I found that many battles in HoF are easily won so long as you have access to a few important spells, with a few exceptions. Generally you'll diable the attacking horde pretty easily with a Symbol or Greater Command with a Wail thrown in, but the opponents that aren't affected by these spells can give you no end of headaches. Case in point Slayer Knight's of Xvim. These guys are tough in normal, but unbalanced in the extreme in HoF. One of these guys will happily cut a path through your whole party unless all you do is concentrate your fire on him. These guys actually have a better Fortitude save that Ixachu Xvim himself I think. They are also totally immune to Fire and other damage types.

Here's how I see HoF mode: most battles will tear your party appart if you can't disable your opponents en-mass nearly instantly. A group of Orc's can take you down in record time, 20th level or not, but are almost always tripped up by the Symbol, Command and Wail spells. Without these you must resort to having summoned creatures fight your battles for you. Most battles can't be won by force alone.

Single opponents on the other hand are easier to handle than Normal. The Guardian and Ixachu Xvim both took me many reloads and evey buff spell I could cast in Normal, but I killed both first time around in HoF, barely broke a sweat. I love the HoF items, and the fact that you can get to such high levels and still get slaughtered, but I find it a little unbalanced. I'd rather fight either the Guardian or Xvim than a squad of 5-6 Slayer Knights! One or 2 I could handle, after that it get's very messy.

So tell me which you prefer and why. Normal is great because a Fireball is actually worth casting, and Delayed Blast Fireball? That's goodnight. In HoF these spells, even Meteor Swarm aren't even worth casting unless you've already disabled everyone.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:45 pm

HoF.. well hordes of monsters.. big fights..

Dreez · Post by **Dreez** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:42 am

I´ve looked through every menu in IWD2 and cant find the option for HoF,
so atm im taking my über party of 6xlvl17 through the entire game again
from the start - quiet boring since i get no good fights.
FYI , i have only the origional IWD2 , no expansion.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:23 am

Well, I've played HoF for about 5 minutes...

I got as far as the warehouse, and I was chewed up and spitted out by those lovely goblins

So, I'm still waiting for my characters to improve to be able to face such a hard challenge.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:26 am

Well personally i have only found 2 last chapter chalenging..

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:28 am

[QUOTE=Dreez]I´ve looked through every menu in IWD2 and cant find the option for HoF,
so atm im taking my über party of 6xlvl17 through the entire game again
from the start - quiet boring since i get no good fights.
FYI , i have only the origional IWD2 , no expansion.[/QUOTE]

Well you need to run config...

You cant change game to HoF when playing IWD2..

You need to run difrent thing.. it is called.. config.. there is no expansions in IWD2.. Hof is with every IWD2 versions..

Open IWD2 folder and there you should see config..

winter sorrow · Post by **winter sorrow** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:40 am

I think Normal is my favorite mainly because you can try a number of tactics and use a variety of spells / party combinations, have fun and come out victorious. There is more chance of a role-playing feel to the game.

After a while HOF mode can be a bit boring. Best tactic in HOF mode is pretty much summon allies, cast disablers, mass heal and repeat. It's quite detached really. If you're not a cleric or mage then you're not going to be effective for HOF mode. Monks are not much use other than to be something for the enemy to chase. Your fighters, paladins, barbarians are no longer the tanks they used to be.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:37 pm

I think I prefer Normal mode because the battles are far more challenging. In HoF, they are either far too easy or far too hard (normally decided by whether they are vulnerable to instant kill spells/disablers or not). Basically the Melee component of HoF mode is almost irrelevant. You will never win any of the battle by combat alone. Even fully Buffed your best tank is unlikely to survive a one on one fight with many opponents, let alone the 10+ opponents you commonly encounter. You're only chance is to use uber spells like Symbol: Hoplessness and Wail of the Banshee, where HP doesn't matter. The powerword Stun and Kill spells are useless becuase your opponents are almost never in HP range for them. Ditto Symbol: Stun and Death.

HoF reduces the game to a formula, it's best point is that you actaully get a chance to fully develop your characters and use those powerful spells you were just getting at the end of normal mode. The problem is it makes almost all the other sopells redundant. Fireball is next to useless, offensive spells below 6th level in general may as well not exist. Your fighters become road blocks buying you time for the wizards to kill or disable everything.

Firing off a Fireball or Coe of Cold and knowing it was actually going to really hurt it's targets and allow your tanks to finish them off is a good feeling. In HoF, if it doesn't take it's target out immediately it's hardly worth casting.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:35 pm

Personally.. i think fire ball is useless in normal too.. well i have used delayed fireball.. but still..

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:02 am

Right, Heidrek. The problem is that it wipes away the rpg feeling, it's just a "how-to-use-your-highest-level-spells" course, just as you said. In "reality" (of the Realms, I mean) it's not likely that a goblin would defeat a 18 lvl fighter, even if it's tougher than normal.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:08 am

Well.. perhaps not in Forgotten realms.. but in REAL WORLD.. well i am not so sure about who would win.. but If D&D rules would be even little bit more realistic.. then there would be little bit more ROLEPLAYING FEELING.. but There is going to be game wich has little bit more realistic combat system and that is called... OBLIVION..

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:54 pm

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]Personally.. i think fire ball is useless in normal too.. well i have used delayed fireball.. but still..[/QUOTE]

You don't get access to Delayed Blast Fireball until about 14th Level, thats pretty late in the game, probably the last chapter. What do you use for the rest? In Normal mode I found Fireball to be a very useful spell. It has a fast casting time, does good damage and has a good area of affect. You can get one off before opponents close to melee range.

Delayed Blast Fireball has a number of advantages, but it also takes muck longer to cast and cant really be used against advancing opponents as the will get to you before you finish the spell. It's devastating against stationary targets like spell casters, or disabled/held opponents though.

HoF would be great with a little more thought. Rather than Goblins attacking Targos, why not make them Elite Orog's or some other tougher opponents, Drow or Umber Hulks or Werewolves or something and so on?

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:31 pm

Well.. i get that spell how to say after leaving underdark.. so there is going to be realy much use for it.. Or earlier.. depends on my party..

But i have my own playing style.. and that doesn't have fireballs in it.. and since normal is place where antone can melee so i will melee mostly.. and then i will pick usefull spell's and avoid picking spells like fireball..

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:09 pm

What is your party make up? How do you handle Slayer Knights of Xvim in HoF? I'd be interested to hear what you have found works as it sounds like you have a different approach than me.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:25 pm

Giant vermin.... + few shades.. my party goes melee and cleric casts mass heal..rapidly..

Varis · Post by **Varis** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:07 pm

I had started ID II some time ago, then paused after getting to Chapter 3 or so. Recently I've resterted the game in HoF mode with brand new characters, and I find it simply boring.

Yes, that's right. Brand new characters, all started at level 1 - one drow, two aasimars, three of normal races. After killnig the second goblin they got to level 2, four goblins more and they are level 3... Before we get to Ulbrek, they were already 8 or higher. The battle on the Palisade, very challenging in the normal mode, in HoF was but a joke.

While in normal mode I had reloaded a few times (playing on insane difficulty), and in the end finished with almost everybody with no spells and barely a few Hit points, in HoF not a single hit point and but a few spells were depleted. The summoned creatures did all the job.

Now I'm at the Horde fortress, and the same rule applies, only the party is about level 14-15, and though all the spellcasters are somewhat multiclassed, their summons rock. Too much for me. I still hope that the things are going to get better (read: worse for my party) when their spell power stops advancing, with enemies getting tougher and tougher. Otherwise I would have quitted and returned to normal mode.

Ellester · Post by **Ellester** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:45 pm

Yea, I’ll admit my hof game I have going right now has been reduced to throwing summonings in front to do the fighting and having all 6 of my party members casting spells and using ranged weapons. No one gets hurt anymore. So it’s now a piece of cake (I’m in the ice palace). It kindastinks becaused I tried to use my tanks up front but they kept on getting slaughtered so I am forced to use summonings to do the tanking.

So far I would vote for the normal mode.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:53 am

Good idea! Shall we create a poll for it?

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:08 am

[QUOTE=Brynn]Good idea! Shall we create a poll for it?[/QUOTE]

...good idea - but you should also ask for the individual HOF combat-style:

- concentrate on summonings
- concentrate on magic (malison & WotB)
- or hardcore melee (ultra-high AC)

.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:40 pm

both modes have their advantages...

i prefer normal b/c a variety of tactics / parties work just fine (some more of a challenge than others, but the game is "winnable" w/ just about anything)

hof mode otoh, is more of an excercise in "finding the loophole" ie using weapons of slaying vs their target, summons, wail, mass dominate, disintegrate. outlikues res sphere. some cheese some legit.

i think i've beaten the game w/o using cheese until i get to slayer knights, then more drastic measures are called for.

the "fun" of hof is in trying to find ways of not using summons, ie buffing your tanks to the gills, and finding other ways to limit your vulnerability to melee damage. (ie hold, stun, slow, grease ect) while making the most of your own party members, finding the most efficent ways to deal damages right weapon right time, timely use of spells ect.

that being said, the sense of completion following a hof run is greater than completing regular mode. (also applies to stuff like monk challanges and battle squares)