I'm putting together a good party, but I have some doubts.. all chars have max in all important skills/points.
1 Fighter (Berserker)
1 Paladin (Inquisitor) only to use the best sword
1 Archer
1 Fighter/Mage , going to dual class after lvl 9
And now, here's my doubts:
A thief is a MUST.. and I need a cleric for healing.
I could make a fighter/thief multiclass, and a fighter/cleric dualclass(dual after lvl 9). OR
A thief/cleric multiclass, and then make a monk maybe..
or maybe any other suggestions?
Thx in advance.. =)
What to choose?
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Jurosementalistile
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I agree with Maurice on the dual classed thief. They don't require much experience, so you could get one to a decent level and then dual without it affecting your next class.
As for the priest, a single class isn't necessary, it would just be a waste of a character. Personally, I wouldn't have any priest at all. There are so many healing potions in the game, and three rings of regeneration (if you include the ring of Gaxx). You don't need a priest. But if you want one, Definetely dual or multi class them. Probably dual. Maybe you could have a multiclass cleric/thief, and then you'd only have to have one weak character in the party.
If you have room, two dual class fighter/mages would kick arse.
Fighter/mages are without a doubt the most powerful characters in a fight, in my opinion. And they're so much fun
As for the priest, a single class isn't necessary, it would just be a waste of a character. Personally, I wouldn't have any priest at all. There are so many healing potions in the game, and three rings of regeneration (if you include the ring of Gaxx). You don't need a priest. But if you want one, Definetely dual or multi class them. Probably dual. Maybe you could have a multiclass cleric/thief, and then you'd only have to have one weak character in the party.
If you have room, two dual class fighter/mages would kick arse.
Fighter/mages are without a doubt the most powerful characters in a fight, in my opinion. And they're so much fun
I have to disagree with that last one regarding Clerics: a pure Cleric has more healing spells and as far as potions go, yeah there are enough, but I didn't find a plethora of them either.
For a thief, definitely dual the thief. While it's fun to have a pure thief, after level 13 or so there's not much more in the way of skills they can gain that make much difference. I'd dual to a mage.
Fighters, I went with a barbarian and by endgame could walk through pretty much anything and lay down some serious hurt with dual-wielding some really badass swords.
But my parties consist of at least three heavy fighters, a pure cleric (ahh, my dear Viconia... but I digress) a darn good thief (level 9 or higher) and a random character, usually a hevay mage. Hope that helps some.
For a thief, definitely dual the thief. While it's fun to have a pure thief, after level 13 or so there's not much more in the way of skills they can gain that make much difference. I'd dual to a mage.
Fighters, I went with a barbarian and by endgame could walk through pretty much anything and lay down some serious hurt with dual-wielding some really badass swords.
But my parties consist of at least three heavy fighters, a pure cleric (ahh, my dear Viconia... but I digress) a darn good thief (level 9 or higher) and a random character, usually a hevay mage. Hope that helps some.
Erm ... I dualled a Fighter at level 6 to Thief, not the other way around 
This way, you get a Thief who can use good equipment (including a helmet!) and weapons, without the usual penalty for Thieves. Since I use him alot for backstabbing, I have five stars in his Short Swords (don't ask - I chose this back in BG I when I created the character, in the assumption you could not backstab with long swords), while pure Thieves can only gain two stars there. Furthermore, the Fighter class gives a very good Thac0, and a load of HP's.
Be sure to have a Dex of 17 AT LEAST for this character, otherwise you can't dual-class him to Thief. If you go the other way around, have a strength of AT LEAST 17.
About Clerics I can write pages. I'll keep it short. Clerics are NOT PURELY there for healing! Sure, I use their healing, too, but they have many spells that could be even better than healing spells. What about Bless and Chant? They all increase your chance on succesful rolls in combat (Thac0, AC, saving throws, etc...) or whatever. Protection from Evil spells help you against ... well, evil. If someone gates in a Demon, have this spell on your party and laugh at the creature. Negative Plain Protection helps prevent level drain on characters. Lesser Restoration is able to cure all Level Drain effects from characters should they have gotten drained. FlameStrike does a fair amount of damage to enemies, and against Undead, the spell SunRay is devastating? Troubles with Liches? Cast a SunRay or two and watch how he falls to pieces instantly ... Slow Poison helps to stop poison from wrecking one or more of your characters should they have gotten poisoned.
For me, having at least ONE Cleric (preferably a FULL Cleric) is vital to the survival of the group.
This way, you get a Thief who can use good equipment (including a helmet!) and weapons, without the usual penalty for Thieves. Since I use him alot for backstabbing, I have five stars in his Short Swords (don't ask - I chose this back in BG I when I created the character, in the assumption you could not backstab with long swords), while pure Thieves can only gain two stars there. Furthermore, the Fighter class gives a very good Thac0, and a load of HP's.
Be sure to have a Dex of 17 AT LEAST for this character, otherwise you can't dual-class him to Thief. If you go the other way around, have a strength of AT LEAST 17.
About Clerics I can write pages. I'll keep it short. Clerics are NOT PURELY there for healing! Sure, I use their healing, too, but they have many spells that could be even better than healing spells. What about Bless and Chant? They all increase your chance on succesful rolls in combat (Thac0, AC, saving throws, etc...) or whatever. Protection from Evil spells help you against ... well, evil. If someone gates in a Demon, have this spell on your party and laugh at the creature. Negative Plain Protection helps prevent level drain on characters. Lesser Restoration is able to cure all Level Drain effects from characters should they have gotten drained. FlameStrike does a fair amount of damage to enemies, and against Undead, the spell SunRay is devastating? Troubles with Liches? Cast a SunRay or two and watch how he falls to pieces instantly ... Slow Poison helps to stop poison from wrecking one or more of your characters should they have gotten poisoned.
For me, having at least ONE Cleric (preferably a FULL Cleric) is vital to the survival of the group.
Thx guys =)
Well.. I made 2 fighters, and are going to dual them to a thief and a cleric..
I started the the thief dual at once, because of all the locks and traps in the start.. But i don't gain any hp per lvl-up? The fighter was lvl 7 with 98hp, and now it's: fighter lvl 7 / Thief lvl 3, and still 98hp.. Is there some kind of rule for this?
Well.. I made 2 fighters, and are going to dual them to a thief and a cleric..
I started the the thief dual at once, because of all the locks and traps in the start.. But i don't gain any hp per lvl-up? The fighter was lvl 7 with 98hp, and now it's: fighter lvl 7 / Thief lvl 3, and still 98hp.. Is there some kind of rule for this?
So you opted for another 1/2 attack, eh? Well, that's okay I guess. My Thief made level 23 in the end ...
You don't gain any HP, since your highest level class (fighter) is inactive. As soon as it becomes active again (Thief level 8), you'll gain additional HP's again, but this time according to the Thief table of HP's.
My Fighter/Thief came to 134 total, brought to 139 with the Helm of Balduran. He has a Constitution of 18, by the way.
You don't gain any HP, since your highest level class (fighter) is inactive. As soon as it becomes active again (Thief level 8), you'll gain additional HP's again, but this time according to the Thief table of HP's.
My Fighter/Thief came to 134 total, brought to 139 with the Helm of Balduran. He has a Constitution of 18, by the way.
I have my doubts about that combi ... if you dual a priest to thief, you'll never be able to reach high-level spells with your Cleric class. The other way around, thief to cleric, prevents you from reaching high skill levels in your thieving abilities.
The latter might work, though, if you specialize in one or two of his thieving skills, and you use items along that boost these skills even further.
The latter might work, though, if you specialize in one or two of his thieving skills, and you use items along that boost these skills even further.
But i'm not going to dual... It's multiclass. I had a char like this before.. With thieving skills and high lvl spells. He starts out with lvl 7 in both cleric and thief I think(he don't need as much exp to lvl'up as a normal thief or cleric), and Exp is devided between them. Do u have any suggestions on my last char?
Ah, I didn't get the MULTI class ... well, it might work. Did you check out what levels the character can get in both his classes?
As for the other character, I don't know ... with this setup of five you've got everything pretty much covered I guess. I think you should take a char. there that brings something you don't have yet, while taking care you don't have him bring in something you don't really need (anymore).
How about another character that can use magic? Jurosementalistile suggested adding a second Fighter/Mage. While I don't think it matters what the first class is, it might be nice having another mage class in your group. Perhaps a Multi-Class Fighter/Mage??
As for the other character, I don't know ... with this setup of five you've got everything pretty much covered I guess. I think you should take a char. there that brings something you don't have yet, while taking care you don't have him bring in something you don't really need (anymore).
How about another character that can use magic? Jurosementalistile suggested adding a second Fighter/Mage. While I don't think it matters what the first class is, it might be nice having another mage class in your group. Perhaps a Multi-Class Fighter/Mage??
Some recommendations from a beginner:
1. Do NOT create multiclass characters! They are inferior to other characters. A multiclass fighter/thief is a bad thief and a bad fighter.
2. Create dual-class characters whenewer possible because most of their stats work on the "best of" basis. Namely:
a) THAC0 - the better thac0 is used. A dual-class MAGE/fighter9 character will be a mage with thac0 11. The mage part of the character cannot best the mage's thac0 to the end of the game. That's why it is good to requalify to mage later in the game.
b) IMPORTANT! Weapon proficiencies work on the "best of" basis. Suppose we want to create a MAGE/fighter. Create a fighter and give him the proficiencies: halberd++, 2H weapon++, short bow++, spear+ (lvl9). Now requalify to a mage and give him proficiences: qstaff+ and dagger+ (lvl6). At level 10, the mage regains this fighter capabilities and ALL the pluses become valid. You will add next plus at lvl12, say qstaff++ (he can because he is a fighter). Nice mage, isn't he?
c) saving throws.
Hit points: while the dual-class has his primary class capabilities blocked, it does not get any hit points when it levels up. Therefore, FIGHTER/thief, etc. is nonsense. Well, you get a fighter - with almost the same number of HP as a thief.
3. Thief is a must in the game because of traps and locked doors/chests. It is not right that your thief cannot offer anything past lvl13 or so. You will need: disarm traps 110 (because of armor), detect traps 110, set snare 100, other skills high. When do you reach it?
4. Cleric is a VALUABLE character. He can heal and he is not a harmless fighter. He can cast among others:
a) Sanctuary - splendid spell when you need to bring something from a dangerous area. You can open chests and pick items without breaking sanctuary.
b) Harm and Slay Living - good spells against tough opponents.
c) Sunray and False Dawn - against undeads.
d) Gate - no comment necessary.
e) Lesser Restoration - a MUST against vampires. You cannot find a temple in a dungeon. And do you want to pay forever for healing in temples and restoration scrolls?
Here is my party "Walking Disaster Ltd."
1. Inquisitor - because of his Dispel Magic ability.
2. Undead Hunter - immune to level drain.
3. fighter/CLERIC
4. fighter/MAGE
5. berserker/THIEF
(6. Imoen, Valygar, Cernd, Korgan, etc.)
All characters have more than 130 HP. All of them are strong and dexterous. When the mage casts Tenser's Transformation he gets 250 HP (the maximum) and becomes a high-level fighter.
1. Do NOT create multiclass characters! They are inferior to other characters. A multiclass fighter/thief is a bad thief and a bad fighter.
2. Create dual-class characters whenewer possible because most of their stats work on the "best of" basis. Namely:
a) THAC0 - the better thac0 is used. A dual-class MAGE/fighter9 character will be a mage with thac0 11. The mage part of the character cannot best the mage's thac0 to the end of the game. That's why it is good to requalify to mage later in the game.
b) IMPORTANT! Weapon proficiencies work on the "best of" basis. Suppose we want to create a MAGE/fighter. Create a fighter and give him the proficiencies: halberd++, 2H weapon++, short bow++, spear+ (lvl9). Now requalify to a mage and give him proficiences: qstaff+ and dagger+ (lvl6). At level 10, the mage regains this fighter capabilities and ALL the pluses become valid. You will add next plus at lvl12, say qstaff++ (he can because he is a fighter). Nice mage, isn't he?
c) saving throws.
Hit points: while the dual-class has his primary class capabilities blocked, it does not get any hit points when it levels up. Therefore, FIGHTER/thief, etc. is nonsense. Well, you get a fighter - with almost the same number of HP as a thief.
3. Thief is a must in the game because of traps and locked doors/chests. It is not right that your thief cannot offer anything past lvl13 or so. You will need: disarm traps 110 (because of armor), detect traps 110, set snare 100, other skills high. When do you reach it?
4. Cleric is a VALUABLE character. He can heal and he is not a harmless fighter. He can cast among others:
a) Sanctuary - splendid spell when you need to bring something from a dangerous area. You can open chests and pick items without breaking sanctuary.
b) Harm and Slay Living - good spells against tough opponents.
c) Sunray and False Dawn - against undeads.
d) Gate - no comment necessary.
e) Lesser Restoration - a MUST against vampires. You cannot find a temple in a dungeon. And do you want to pay forever for healing in temples and restoration scrolls?
Here is my party "Walking Disaster Ltd."
1. Inquisitor - because of his Dispel Magic ability.
2. Undead Hunter - immune to level drain.
3. fighter/CLERIC
4. fighter/MAGE
5. berserker/THIEF
(6. Imoen, Valygar, Cernd, Korgan, etc.)
All characters have more than 130 HP. All of them are strong and dexterous. When the mage casts Tenser's Transformation he gets 250 HP (the maximum) and becomes a high-level fighter.
" b) IMPORTANT! Weapon proficiencies work on the "best of" basis. Suppose we want to create a MAGE/fighter. Create a fighter and give him the proficiencies: halberd++, 2H weapon++, short bow++, spear+ (lvl9). Now requalify to a mage and give him proficiences: qstaff+ and dagger+ (lvl6). At level 10, the mage regains this fighter capabilities and ALL the pluses become valid. You will add next plus at lvl12, say qstaff++ (he can because he is a fighter). Nice mage, isn't he? "
If you want to have your mage use a weapon like the Staff of the Magi (quarterstaff proficiency) and no other weapons, it might be useful to have your fighter put ALL his stars into the quarterstaff proficiency. I rather prefer 5 stars in the weapon I usually use, than have a few stars over various weapon types, of which you might wonder if you ever use them.
" You will need: disarm traps 110 (because of armor), detect traps 110, set snare 100, other skills high. "
I never EVER used the 'Set Snare' ability. You may call me stupid for not having used it, but I managed perfectly well without it. I simply didn't want to waste points on a dubious skill, that I most probably wasn't going to use anyway. Detect & Disarm Traps should indeed be 100+, and I also recommend the same for Hide in the Shadows and Move Silently, if you want to use him for scouting undetected, and backstabbing. Put points on Lockpicking, if you want to open chests and such the NICE way (instead of kicking them open) - this also gives you some experience. And if you want to pickpocket people, put points there as well. This will allow you for instance to pickpocket Ribald (Adventurer's Mart) for a second Ring of Regeneration, or Kangaxx the Lich for a second Ring of Gaxx.
In the end, my Fighter/Thief (6/23) had 100+ in all skills except Set Snares, to which I never ever put a point.
If you want to have your mage use a weapon like the Staff of the Magi (quarterstaff proficiency) and no other weapons, it might be useful to have your fighter put ALL his stars into the quarterstaff proficiency. I rather prefer 5 stars in the weapon I usually use, than have a few stars over various weapon types, of which you might wonder if you ever use them.
" You will need: disarm traps 110 (because of armor), detect traps 110, set snare 100, other skills high. "
I never EVER used the 'Set Snare' ability. You may call me stupid for not having used it, but I managed perfectly well without it. I simply didn't want to waste points on a dubious skill, that I most probably wasn't going to use anyway. Detect & Disarm Traps should indeed be 100+, and I also recommend the same for Hide in the Shadows and Move Silently, if you want to use him for scouting undetected, and backstabbing. Put points on Lockpicking, if you want to open chests and such the NICE way (instead of kicking them open) - this also gives you some experience. And if you want to pickpocket people, put points there as well. This will allow you for instance to pickpocket Ribald (Adventurer's Mart) for a second Ring of Regeneration, or Kangaxx the Lich for a second Ring of Gaxx.
In the end, my Fighter/Thief (6/23) had 100+ in all skills except Set Snares, to which I never ever put a point.
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Jurosementalistile
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Multiclass cleric /thief, I approve wholeheartedly .
Maurice asked if you checked the level limits, well for a cleric it's level 14, enough to get access to every level and priest spells a-plenty. Thief I'm not sure, but it must be at leeast the same, which is again plenty for all the skills you need.
As for the other slot, well you already know my first choice so I won't repeat it
(FIGHTER/MAGE, FIGHTER/MAGE, FIGHTER/MAGE!)
but if you don't want that I would suggest at least a mage of some sort, pure or dual. NOT multi. Multi-class mages only get access to level six spells, which makes them seriously impotent. Let them get to max level, or don't bother. One fighter/mage plus your Paladin and beserker should be adequate hand-to-hand, but that's one thing you can never have too much of, so if you want another melee character, go for it.
By the way, I suggest beserker for your fighter mage(s) too. Unless you want to do the Kensai thing, but thats a long story. Basically, I think one non-kensai/Mage can be made better than a kensai/Mage with the right equipment, but you won't have enough for two. So if you have two fighter/mages, you probably should make one a Kensai.
One last thing I was wondering, would an archer really make the best archer? A fighter can get to a higher level and a higher degree of specialisation. A paladin may not be quite as good a shot, but almost as good, and they will have other helpful abilities as well. If you made your archer an inquisator, he could use true sights and dispel's from a distance as well as arrows while your melee dudes get busy. Personally I found archers were too weak against all the mage protection spells and creature weapon immunities in BG2, but they can still be fun.
.Maurice asked if you checked the level limits, well for a cleric it's level 14, enough to get access to every level and priest spells a-plenty. Thief I'm not sure, but it must be at leeast the same, which is again plenty for all the skills you need.
As for the other slot, well you already know my first choice so I won't repeat it
(FIGHTER/MAGE, FIGHTER/MAGE, FIGHTER/MAGE!)
but if you don't want that I would suggest at least a mage of some sort, pure or dual. NOT multi. Multi-class mages only get access to level six spells, which makes them seriously impotent. Let them get to max level, or don't bother. One fighter/mage plus your Paladin and beserker should be adequate hand-to-hand, but that's one thing you can never have too much of, so if you want another melee character, go for it.
By the way, I suggest beserker for your fighter mage(s) too. Unless you want to do the Kensai thing, but thats a long story. Basically, I think one non-kensai/Mage can be made better than a kensai/Mage with the right equipment, but you won't have enough for two. So if you have two fighter/mages, you probably should make one a Kensai.
One last thing I was wondering, would an archer really make the best archer? A fighter can get to a higher level and a higher degree of specialisation. A paladin may not be quite as good a shot, but almost as good, and they will have other helpful abilities as well. If you made your archer an inquisator, he could use true sights and dispel's from a distance as well as arrows while your melee dudes get busy. Personally I found archers were too weak against all the mage protection spells and creature weapon immunities in BG2, but they can still be fun.
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Jurosementalistile
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Sorry, a few more things I wanted to add. Mainly, some more priest bashing. Most people seem to be of the opinion that you may as well make all your characters as tough in a fight as possible. In my experience, awesome or not at all is better. Jaheira is a druid/fighter, so should be pretty good in melee. In my game, she always just got shat on. Have at least three tough melee dudes (from the way you're heading(Badloser) you can probably make four or even five) and keep the rest out of harms way in a fight. I had Nalia, Imoen and Aerie, and I just keep them well away from the danger zone. Three warriors was plenty. But if you want more efficiency, go for more warriors. But basically what I'm saying is, aim for warriors and non-warriors, nothing in between. (That doesn't include fighter/mages, who are far more powerful in hand-to-hand than even a pure fighrt).
I haven't played an Archer yet, but no fighter can come close to what they can do with ranged weapons. They do get advanced specialization for ranged weapons (although they give up specialization for melee).
Beyond that, they get the same bonuses to hit and damage that kensai get with melee. Add in called shot and they are lethal at range.
Now that my speed racer kensai has finished the game (on day 24!) I may start an archer. Too bad dagger isn't considered a missile weapon since IMO the best ranged weapon in the game is Firetooth. I guess I'll have to go with Gesen and Tansheron's or maybe Sling of Everard. There are some good long bows, but they all require ammo.
As far as the party goes, you might want to consider the thief/cleric to get fill those roles then take a monk. The monk gives you another effective fighter with good special abilities without needing the equipment the others are already using.
On the other hand, if you haven't played through the game once already, forget the whole party thing and just make one character. You miss out on a lot of the game otherwise.
Beyond that, they get the same bonuses to hit and damage that kensai get with melee. Add in called shot and they are lethal at range.
Now that my speed racer kensai has finished the game (on day 24!) I may start an archer. Too bad dagger isn't considered a missile weapon since IMO the best ranged weapon in the game is Firetooth. I guess I'll have to go with Gesen and Tansheron's or maybe Sling of Everard. There are some good long bows, but they all require ammo.
As far as the party goes, you might want to consider the thief/cleric to get fill those roles then take a monk. The monk gives you another effective fighter with good special abilities without needing the equipment the others are already using.
On the other hand, if you haven't played through the game once already, forget the whole party thing and just make one character. You miss out on a lot of the game otherwise.
1. Set Snare. No objections. I am rather a trapper than a backstaber. Others may incline to other styles. As far as Hide in Shadows, etc. is concerned: sure. The reason is the same - armor.
2. +++++ This gives you a substantial advantage only if you apply an (illegal) patch and gain an extra attack at Grand Mastery. Otherwise, you improve your thac0 a bit and you inflicts a slightly more damage. At ++ you get an extra 1/2 attack. That's why my characters are ++.
3. Berserkers cannot specialize in bows/slings. The thief is a 2 weapons guy not supposed to use bows. Therefore berserker. Others are supposed to use bows.
4. Multiclass cleric/thief: at lvl 14, he gets a single level 7 spell. And he gets it rather late. That's why I do not agree.
2. +++++ This gives you a substantial advantage only if you apply an (illegal) patch and gain an extra attack at Grand Mastery. Otherwise, you improve your thac0 a bit and you inflicts a slightly more damage. At ++ you get an extra 1/2 attack. That's why my characters are ++.
3. Berserkers cannot specialize in bows/slings. The thief is a 2 weapons guy not supposed to use bows. Therefore berserker. Others are supposed to use bows.
4. Multiclass cleric/thief: at lvl 14, he gets a single level 7 spell. And he gets it rather late. That's why I do not agree.