Questions about kensai/mage, limited wish, equipment, etc. Please help !

marmotts · Post by **marmotts** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:00 am

Hi.

I'm new to BG2 and just took a look at some Kensai/Mage strategy guide on gamebanshee.com. I'd be glad if u could answer a few questions about this character.

I'm not sure I understood well... but the author says it's possible to reactivate the Kensai class (so u may gains more kensai levels) even after you have dualed to a mage ?! How can we do that ?

Another question : what is that limited wish and wish thing that requires the character to have a good wisdom ?

One more : would it be a good idea to wait till lvl 15 before dualing in order to have bettre fighting skills, since I plan to export to Throne of Bhaal later (8,000,000 exp cap) ?

Since there are plenty of belts that can raise strength to 19+, would it be a good idea to make a kensai/mage with as low strength as possible in order to max wisdom ? Is there any uber-belt that I should wear instead of a strength enhancing belt ? High wisdom helps with saving throws right ?

Thanks a lot for your help

Pat

LotharBot · Post by **LotharBot** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:39 am

marmotts wrote:the author says it's possible to reactivate the Kensai class (so u may gains more kensai levels) even after you have dualed to a mage ?!

You misunderstood.

"Reactivate the class" doesn't mean you can get more Kensai levels. If you dual at level 9, your kensai is *always* level 9.

But, once your mage reaches one level higher than your kensai level, your kensai is "reactivated", which means you get all of your Kensai abilities back. This includes proficiencies, hit and damage bonuses, ability to use all weapons, kai, etc.

what is that limited wish and wish thing that requires the character to have a good wisdom ?

Limited Wish is a level 7 (I think) mage spell, and Wish is a level 9 mage spell. Each of them, when cast, gives you a list of options you can choose from (the list isn't the same every time.) These can be anything from "dispel magic on everyone in the area" to "fully heal my party" to "summon a bunch of bad monsters to kick my butt". Obviously, limited wish gives you fewer options, and they're generally less powerful.

I think the chances of you getting good results from a wish spell depend on your wisdom. I always cast these spells with my cleric/mage (with 21 wisdom, due to manuals from BG1) so it always worked out nicely for me, but I'm sure if your wis is lower you run into problems with wishes.

would it be a good idea to wait till lvl 15 before dualing in order to have bettre fighting skills, since I plan to export to Throne of Bhaal later (8,000,000 exp cap)?

There are traditionally 3 different levels to dual-class from a fighter to something else.

1) dual-class at the start of the game (level 7). This gives you a decent fighter base with good strength and proficiencies and a lot of hitpoints, and lets your mage (or cleric or thief) level up very high. It also minimizes the amount of time you spend waiting for your fighter skills (proficiencies, etc.) to reactivate. Do this if you want to focus on the "mage" part of kensai/mage.
2) dual-class at level 9. This gives you a few more hitpoints, one more proficiency and another +1 to hit / damage as a kensai, but it takes you longer for the kensai to reactivate. It also means your mage can only make it to level 30 instead of level 31 (but you probably won't get close enough to the XP cap to care.) This is a nice balance.
3) dual-class at level 13. This gives you an extra +1 attack each round, more hitpoints, and one more proficiency, but it takes *FOREVER* for the kensai to reactivate (1.25 million XP for the kensai, and then you have to wait for 1.5 million more XP as a mage -- basically until the end of SoA.) Your mage will also hit the Xp cap at level 28. Do this if you want to focus on the "kensai" part of kensai/mage, but be aware that it will take you a long time for the kensai to become useful.

If you choose to wait until level 15, you don't really gain many extra fighter abilities, your mage can only get to level 26, and you're pretty badly hamstrung through the most fun part of the game. I would recommend against it.

If it's your first time with a kensai/mage, I'd recommend level 9.

Since there are plenty of belts that can raise strength to 19+, would it be a good idea to make a kensai/mage with as low strength as possible

Not unless you have a bunch of other high-strength fighters in your party to pick up the slack before you're able to afford the first strength belt.

Still, I wouldn't go "as low as possible" -- you want to at least have a medium-decent strength just to be able to carry stuff in the early game.

Personally, I'd leave the wisdom low and strength high, and use some other character (a cleric-mage, possibly) to do all of the wishing. A low-strength kensai is just kinda silly.

Is there any uber-belt that I should wear instead of a strength enhancing belt ?

There are other belts you should consider (inertial barrier is pretty nice.) Usually, at least one of my kensai-mages ends up wearing a strength belt, and the other ends up with a strength-enhancing weapon, but that's not until late game.

High wisdom helps with saving throws right ?

I don't know. It's not described very well in the game.

-Tom aka LotharBot

moltovir · Post by **moltovir** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:38 am

High wisdom gives you more chance to resist mind-attacking spells, like dominate or charm. If you're not a Druid or Cleric, Wisdom is basically useless (that doesn't mean you have to lower it to 3, that will give you saving throw penalties!). If you're a mage and like to cast (limited) Wish, just buy some cheap Potions of Understanding and use them when the time is right.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:23 am

I'm moving this over to the SoA forum. It's more of an SoA, start-up-a-character kinda question.

Nimiety · Post by **Nimiety** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:50 pm

I wasn't sure about the low wisdom either - so I did a test and created three identical characters. Same class (fighters), same proficiencies, same ability scores, except for wisdom. Whether the wisdom was 3, 10 or 14, the saving throws were identical, so I think it is now safe to say that you can dump your wisdom all you want without any saving throw differences.

I also did a test with mages, and whether wisdom was 3, 9 or 15 they got the same number of spells. Obviously, this would be different for priests that do get additional priestly spells.

So, if you're not making a priest, there seems to be no reason why you can't just bring along a few potions of understanding to take before you cast wish to get the best choices.

N......

me0w · Post by **me0w** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:37 pm

"I also did a test with mages, and whether wisdom was 3, 9 or 15 they got the same number of spells. Obviously, this would be different for priests that do get additional priestly spells."

there is no difference, I haven't checked it, but its not gonna change it. For a mage, all that wisdom seems to do (beyond influencing certain conversation out comes) is effect your lore, and it really effects it, wisdom really is usefull for a mage, and definately for a bard, but really, I keep it at 7-10, no point in any higher.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:02 pm

Wis does affect some saving throws... look at individual spells and saves.
The only real stat that matters for a mage is int... that affects everything.
All other stats can die as far as a mage is concerned... The only reason you would want to have other stats is for saving throw bonuses. If your mage is gonna actually be a mage and never go into battle... well Int is important for spells.
If your mage is going to go into battle then you're gonna have to give up some bonuses...
The main consensus atm is to let wis go since you get normal saves all the way down to 3 wis.
All this will mean is that your guy is gonna get confused etc. more.
Choose something since you cant get the best of both worlds (though you can get most of both)

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:59 am

AfaIk Int. for mages is important only to determine the max number of spells/lev. you can memorize and the %chance to memorize them.
The check for the max number of spells/lev. is made in the moment you try to memorize, so as long that in the moment of memorizing the spells you have an int. of 19+ you can memorize every spell/lev. you like, and with an high int. you wan't risk to fail the memorization (but you can always reload): that said as long as you have potions of genius available when memorizing spells you don't need a high int to be an effective mage.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:18 pm

[QUOTE=lompo]AfaIk Int. for mages is important only to determine the max number of spells/lev. you can memorize and the %chance to memorize them.
The check for the max number of spells/lev. is made in the moment you try to memorize, so as long that in the moment of memorizing the spells you have an int. of 19+ you can memorize every spell/lev. you like, and with an high int. you wan't risk to fail the memorization (but you can always reload): that said as long as you have potions of genius available when memorizing spells you don't need a high int to be an effective mage.[/QUOTE]

If you have more int you get bonus spells as well. Though at some point its not worth it.
As for failing the memorization... just buy a bunch of potions. If you only care about memorizing all the spells and not about how many you can cast lower your int to avg and just drink lots of potions... but the spell bonuses are fairly useful.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:03 pm

[QUOTE=Ekental]If you have more int you get bonus spells as well.[/QUOTE]

no, you don't.

the only way to get bonus spells and spell slots is either memorize them if you're a mage, and use items, like rings of wizardry.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:48 pm

With 18 intelligence you get the ability to scribe scrolls up to level 9 in power, which you previously weren't able to do. Additionally you get to write more spells to your book (18) and higher lore bonus.

Finally as your last gain is that you have a higher chance of scribing a spell to your book without failure (85%)

me0w · Post by **me0w** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:43 am

"As for failing the memorization... just buy a bunch of potions"

well you can do that, or you can set the game to lowest difficulty, memorise, then raise it to what you play on.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:16 pm

[QUOTE=Deadalready]With 18 intelligence you get the ability to scribe scrolls up to level 9 in power, which you previously weren't able to do. Additionally you get to write more spells to your book (18) and higher lore bonus.

[/QUOTE]

that's a mod then.

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:46 pm

The manual says that mages with <18 INT can't scribe/cast 9th level spells, but that is not implemented in the game. All mages regardless of INT can scribe and cast all spells (though you never reach the level needed to cast 9th level spells under SoA's experience cap).
INT only limits the maximum number of spells you can have in your spellbook and determins the chance to fail scribing a scroll, it does not provide bonus spells like WIS does for clerics/druids (at least not in BG2).

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:22 pm

Yeah people with 18 intelligence can scribe level 9 spells in an unmodded Shadows of Amn but unfortunately can't use them, I never actually found a use for level 9 spells in the game to tell the truth so I always scribed them for experience (I did have the difficulty set to one level below core if that makes a difference)

At level 8 you can't use scrolls, that even includes priests and trying to use scrolls of ressurection and healing.

araknid70 · Post by **araknid70** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:13 pm

Someone who finds no use for TimeStop? You're a first, I must say... =)

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:21 pm

[QUOTE=Numinor]INT only limits the maximum number of spells you can have in your spellbook and determins the chance to fail scribing a scroll, it does not provide bonus spells like WIS does for clerics/druids (at least not in BG2).[/QUOTE]

int does NOT limit the number of spells in spell book.

int is actually a utterly useless attribute, and with all mages, and especially sorcerors should never exceed 12.

at 12 you can use wands and scrolls. if you have a precious scroll you want in your spellbook, save them until you have a few, and use potions of genius and scribe them all at the same time.

actually, int is pretty useful for FIGHTERS. since they have to go one on one with mindflayers, anything that reduces the number of intelligence drain you take before dying is a good thing...

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:58 am

"int does NOT limit the number of spells in spell book."

Er, yes it does. Absolutely, positively. Now, you can say that the limit can be easily gotten around by drinking potions of genius, but that's not the same as there being no limit based on intelligence. To be able to scroll every single 1st level spell, for example, requires a 19 intelligence. If your intelligence is 18, you can only scribe 18 spells of a given level. At 17 intelligence, I think 14 is the limit, and so on.

Qwinn

araknid70 · Post by **araknid70** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:01 am

Hmm, well, by that argument then strength is utterly useless for fighters as well - just swig a bottle of cloud giant strength and there you have it!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:16 pm

[QUOTE=Qwinn]"int does NOT limit the number of spells in spell book."

Er, yes it does. Absolutely, positively. Now, you can say that the limit can be easily gotten around by drinking potions of genius, but that's not the same as there being no limit based on intelligence. To be able to scroll every single 1st level spell, for example, requires a 19 intelligence. If your intelligence is 18, you can only scribe 18 spells of a given level. At 17 intelligence, I think 14 is the limit, and so on.

Qwinn[/QUOTE]

once you scribe them, you can then drop back into 12 int when the potion wears off. you can still cast any spell you have scribed. there is no real limit imposed by a low natural int.

and yes, str is useless for fighters too, since you have almost immediate access to a str belt that SETS your str to 19 almost at the beginning of the game.

put points into dex, con, wis...don't put points into charisma, since you have
access in athkatla of a ring that sets cha to 18, which you can wear when you go shopping. there is also an exploit to raise it to 25...