2 weapons fighting style, what to use?

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:02 pm

Ok i've tried a couple of thing;

1) Crom Fayer - Runehammer
2) Crom Fayer - Axe of the undying (sometin like that)
3) Purifier - Foebane
4) Blackrazor - Purifier (weird mix)
5) Crom Fayer - FoA+5
6) Axe of the undying - FoA+5
and so on...

For some reasons, i usually have two chars usin 2 weapons:

A cleric or cleric - fighter with blunt weapons and a Fighter of some sort, like a pally, a ranger or a pure fighter with two swords.

Maybe Crom Fayer with Purifier would be a powerfull mix, i don't know...

I think that from what i've listed, Crom Fayer - FoA is da best, still Axe of the undying and FoA kick ass too with a 23 str barb! For some reasons i never use the star mace, the club of detonation and all. Are these as good as these i've listed above? Discuss on some combo u use; like why u use em and all

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:23 pm

You should really have Celestal Fury, Mace of Disruption and Daystar on your list as well. (those are from the top of my head, there are probably more)

btw: It's called Axe of the Unyielding

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:50 pm

Flail of Ages + Defender of Easthaven (from Joluv the CC merchant) rocks.

The Defender gives +1 AC and 20% resistance to slashing, piercing and crushing. Particularly good if you're playing a kensai.

Qwinn

Lancelot122 · Post by **Lancelot122** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:01 pm

True enough, those rocks too

Thx for the name hehe... But tell me more about ur testing, what u have found the most effective and why

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:07 pm

Well, I really loved the combinations
Celestal Fury - FoA
Axe of the Unyielding - FoA

I don't know why, probably because they worked well in almost any situation.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:30 pm

Axe of Unyeilding and Belm in the offhand.

Belm's extra attack transfers to the main-hand. Therefore, you get an extra shot at an insta-kill!

Nimiety · Post by **Nimiety** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:53 pm

I like dualling like weapons to ensure I get the maximum proficiencies and not splitting them over too many different choices, unless you aren't a fighter and can't get 5 *'s.

For a fighter/mage, dual katanas: Celestial fury and Dak'kon's Zerth Blade
- you get one of the best katanas plus an ac bonus and extra spells.
I also like:
- dualling axes: Azuredge is a great range weapon and you can dual Stonefire and Frostreaver which also give elemental damage for extra impact. Add in the Axe of the Unyielding later as a +5 weapon in your main hand.
- dualling scimitars: Belm is available early, Kachiko's steals wisdom, and there are two +4 scimitars in ToB's watcher's keep.
- dualling flails: one of the best combos with the Flail of Ages and the Defender, as mentioned, but then add the +5 Crom Faeyr.

Overall, I always use the flails, because the FoA is just too good a weapon (upgrades to +5 and deals out elemental damage which can break through mage defenses quickly). Axes are probably my second favorite since you can use both melee and ranged weapons out of the same class, and that class carries a +5 weapon. The rest depend on the classes of your characters...

G'Luck!
N......

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:17 pm

My theory in dual weilding is that your offhand weapon is there to improve your character in some way other than just having another attack. The offhand weapon only attacks one time a round, no matter how many attacks you get per round.

So, using two non-magical katanas really doesn't help too much. IMHO, you're better off with a shield. Using something like Dakkon's Zerth Blade (AC bonus, extra spells) is definitely worth it. A weapon like Crom Faeyr is incredible, but when placed in the off-hand, it's even better (since the 25 STR is now applied to your main weapon, like Celestial Fury or the Flail of Ages). Belm and Kundane add an extra attack (with the main-hand weapon) which is just awesome. It's an extra chance to stun (CF), slow (FoA), or decapitate (AoU). Awesome baby!

Sticking a magical weapon that doesn't do anything but turn out to be an extra attack (at a negative to hit) just isn't worth it.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:59 pm

[QUOTE=Klorox]My theory in dual weilding is that your offhand weapon is there to improve your character in some way other than just having another attack. The offhand weapon only attacks one time a round, no matter how many attacks you get per round.

So, using two non-magical katanas really doesn't help too much. IMHO, you're better off with a shield. Using something like Dakkon's Zerth Blade (AC bonus, extra spells) is definitely worth it. A weapon like Crom Faeyr is incredible, but when placed in the off-hand, it's even better (since the 25 STR is now applied to your main weapon, like Celestial Fury or the Flail of Ages). Belm and Kundane add an extra attack (with the main-hand weapon) which is just awesome. It's an extra chance to stun (CF), slow (FoA), or decapitate (AoU). Awesome baby!

Sticking a magical weapon that doesn't do anything but turn out to be an extra attack (at a negative to hit) just isn't worth it.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with this reasoning... offhand weapons attack only once per round regardless... so they should do something for the main hand and/or do something besides a paltry extra 20-50 dmg.
Xtra attack weapons let your MAIN hand weapon have the xtra attack... so they're well worth it.

Good combos are usually:
Dmg weapon + Belm/Kundane/Scarlet Ninja-to (+1 attack trinity)
Dmg weapon + Status effect/armor/attack effect weapon (Answerer i.e.)
Dmg weapon + buff weapon (Crom etc.)

These combos are fairly effective...
Foebane +5/Kundane for the xtra attack and the minor drain (which regens you twice as fast as the ring of gaxx if you use it right)
Axe of unyielding/Crom Faeyr (for the str)
Celestial Fury/Scarlet Ninja-to: Stunning chance with fury is impressive even if it usually fails by ToB.. xtra attack is worthwhile
Purifier/Answerer: The answerer does some nasty stat effects and the Purifier is a fairly good offensive weapon as most critters in the game are evilish anyways. (This build is basically like using Holy Avenger but more offensive)

For builds which exploit weapon buffs there is no requirement to be proficient in the weapon at all since you're only using it for the stat enchancement...

Nimiety · Post by **Nimiety** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:31 pm

The only problem I have with Belm (et al) is that the games maxes your attacks per round at 5, and it's pretty easy to get a fighter up to around the same range (I don't have the charts, but...)

The problem I have is that I want the off-hand to be not just a buffing effect for the main hand, but also an offensive aid itself. By dualling katanas, for example, you can quickly get close to 0 THAC0 with both hands (I have a level 7 kensai dualled to mage, now at level 12 that has 5 *'s in katanas, a base thac0 of 14 and main/off at 4/7 - my 13/9 thief/kensai has a base/main/off thac0 of 12/-3/-1 with axes). And, granted, the off hand only hits once, but that extra hit could be the period on the end of the sentance that kills the boss / dragon, whatever. Why not take the special weapon and take it for your off-hand, and get the best weapon of that class for your main?

In the end, you are right that you don't need to be proficient in the weapon in your off-hand by that strategy, but your effectiveness would be higher if you were also proficient in that weapon.

N.....

LotharBot · Post by **LotharBot** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:54 pm

There are lots of good 2weapon combos at different stages of the game. I usually have 3 characters 2weaponing, so I'll list my normal progression for each. Offhand is listed first (but sometimes doesn't matter which is offhand):

1) Axes / Hammers (usually with my wizard slayer)
- Stonefire + Frostreaver
- Crom Faeyr + Stonefire / Frostreaver
- Crom Faeyr + Axe of Unyielding
- Crom Faeyr + Runehammer (specialty combo)

2) long swords (usually with a kensai-mage)
- sword of flame + blade of roses
- blade of roses + daystar (OR use belm offhand. I'm not sure if Kundane gives an extra attack, since its description doesn't say so, but if it does, consider it offhand.)
- equalizer + daystar
- angurvadal + daystar / equalizer
- angurvadal + answerer

3) flails / maces (usually with a fighter-cleric or fighter-druid)
- wyverns tail + flail of ages
- mace of disruption + flail of ages
- storm star + flail of ages

Other good combos include:
- belm (etc) + celestial fury
- belm (etc) + any other weapon with a cool effect (flail of ages, axe of unyielding, etc.)

Typically, the best off-hand weapons are those that either make your on-hand weapon stronger (Crom Faeyr, Angurvadal) or faster (Belm), or those that give your character extra buffs (mace of disruption, equalizer, storm star) or those that have some elemental damage you might want on occasion (stonefire, frost reaver, sword of flame).

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:57 pm

Honestly, I can't see why Dakkon Zerth's blade is so popular (other than being lifted from one of the best RPG's ever). Yes, one AC and a few low level spells is nice, but is one extra 1-4th level mage spell comparable to 20% slashing, piercing and bludgeoning resistance? Not in my book. I would -always- put the Defender of Easthaven in my offhand over Zerth's blade, even if all my proficiencies were in katanas (which I've yet to do, actually).

That is my ultimate defensive offhander. I'd have to put Crom Faeyr as the ultimate offensive off-hand weapon.

Qwinn

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:51 am

[QUOTE=Qwinn]Honestly, I can't see why Dakkon Zerth's blade is so popular...[/QUOTE]
The reason is very simple: enchanted katanas are in short supply, so ANY +2 katana is bound to be popular with players who want to equip their parties with katanas.

SP101 · Post by **SP101** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:42 pm

FoA and Defender combo rocks! FoA is a must against mages with stoneskin on (and every wizards got it... often more than one time!). Defender, as Qwinn said, gives alot of defensive features (+1 AC and +20% resist Blunt/Slashing/Piercing dmgs).

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:34 pm

[QUOTE=LotharBot]
Typically, the best off-hand weapons are those that either make your on-hand weapon stronger (Crom Faeyr, Angurvadal) or faster (Belm), or those that give your character extra buffs (mace of disruption, equalizer, storm star) or those that have some elemental damage you might want on occasion (stonefire, frost reaver, sword of flame).[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the support! The only difference in this last paragraph that I have with you is the part about the Mace Of Disruption being in the offhand. There isn't one time in the entire game that I can think of where you need the MoD, but don't want it in your primary hand!

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:52 pm

[QUOTE=Nimiety]The only problem I have with Belm (et al) is that the games maxes your attacks per round at 5, and it's pretty easy to get a fighter up to around the same range (I don't have the charts, but...)

The problem I have is that I want the off-hand to be not just a buffing effect for the main hand, but also an offensive aid itself. By dualling katanas, for example, you can quickly get close to 0 THAC0 with both hands (I have a level 7 kensai dualled to mage, now at level 12 that has 5 *'s in katanas, a base thac0 of 14 and main/off at 4/7 - my 13/9 thief/kensai has a base/main/off thac0 of 12/-3/-1 with axes). And, granted, the off hand only hits once, but that extra hit could be the period on the end of the sentance that kills the boss / dragon, whatever. Why not take the special weapon and take it for your off-hand, and get the best weapon of that class for your main?

In the end, you are right that you don't need to be proficient in the weapon in your off-hand by that strategy, but your effectiveness would be higher if you were also proficient in that weapon.

N.....[/QUOTE]

I've managed 12 attacks/round with improved haste... so thats 6 attacks per round without it... maybe I had a mod installed or something... but it was definately 6.
As for the offhand... you get 1 attack with it per round...yes you could kill the dragon with it, however lowering the dragons AC or THAC0 or healing yourself or causing a nasty status effect will probably be more beneficial. Remember that many of the good offhand weapons are good weapons in general anyways... just not so good that you would want to use it in your main hand... so you DO do that xtra dmg your talking about anyways.
As for THAC0... I assure you my kensei's -20/-20 is the most impressive ive yet seen. (Although he was lvl 30s XD)

With foebane/kundane i.e. I was able to heal myself for about 20 or so hp/round (not counting ring of gaax) and do hundreds of points of dmg. (like 200-400 cant remember)

Edar Macilrille · Post by **Edar Macilrille** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:14 pm

Playing with whatever mod it is that adds an Acid Kensai after Celestial Fury hunting you for ages his katana works quite nicely in left hand with Celestial Fury in right, especially after CF is upgraded to +5. Kensai/Mage main character with that, Solaufein with Angurvardal and Flail of Ages and Minsc with a pair of nice maces. Add a good sorcerer, Viconia and Sarevok to wield Two-handed swords and shout "Die!!!" while dealing out 200+ hits...
I love it

Best wishes; Palle