Druids

melancolly · Post by **melancolly** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:30 pm

does anyone have a view on druid
do you think they are to powerful and do they really get all the spells in the players handbook
if so do they get all the spells in all the books

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:34 pm

The druid is not to powerful IMO.
what do you mean "they get all the spells" in the PHB?
There are spells restricted to Druids, spells restricted to cleric and so on....
IIRC they can't take spells that belong to the opposed alignment...

melancolly · Post by **melancolly** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:40 pm

when i started runing d@d 3 years ago one of my players anouced that he had access to all the druid spells and now that charector is 11lvl and seems to be overpowering other players

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm

I thought you meant he got all the spells in the PHB..

Well, that dipends on the other player, what classes are they and what spells have your Druid chosen? If he has only chosen damage and death spells and have a high wisdom score, I can see why he is outpowering the other players.

But as I said, I think Druids are restricted to spells that fit with their alignment.

I.e a lawful neutral druid can't take a spell that got a chaotic descriptor ( I am not 100% sure on this though)

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:15 pm

How is the Druid PC overpowered? What are they doing to gain more power than the other players? And what do you mean by "access to all druid spells"?

Fiberfar is correct - druids can not cast spells of the opposite alignment descriptor. So a CN druid can not cast spells with the Lawful descriptor, for example.

Cheers,
TGHO

Volk · Post by **Volk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:59 pm

Which kinda forces druids to stay True Neutral that way they can cast all their spells.

Druids are very underplayed in most groups, but their incredibly powerfull if played correctly due to some of their high level spells and shifting abilities.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:38 am

[QUOTE=Volk]Which kinda forces druids to stay True Neutral that way they can cast all their spells.
[/QUOTE]

I think True Neutral druids have to choose a alignment that will work as their opposite alignment.

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:45 am

The druid is a class based around polymorphing, a broken concept of itself. I personally think this is one of the most powerful classes in the game.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:46 am

[QUOTE=Fiberfar]I think True Neutral druids have to choose a alignment that will work as their opposite alignment.[/QUOTE]

I don't think so.
In my opinion, a true druid should be true neutral. That's nature's way.

@ Mr Weasel
I somewhat agree. It depends on some points.
First of, level. A low lever druid is pretty weak IMO, the lower spells just aren't that great and good abilities come later.
Second, a point we argue about a bit in our group, polymorphing and HP. I say you get 2 HP levels, one as your true self and another for your beast form. You can also say though that wen you get more morphs per day that you get more animal forms and thus a lot of HP. HP as your true self and for every single one of your beast forms.

Volk · Post by **Volk** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:46 pm

True Neutral druids do not need to select a prohibited alignment unless its a house rule, its the bonus a druid gets for selecting the alignment that best fits his class.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:25 pm

[QUOTE=Mr.Waesel]The druid is a class based around polymorphing, a broken concept of itself. I personally think this is one of the most powerful classes in the game.[/QUOTE]

If you go by the exact letter of the rules, then yes. However if you use some common sense, then no. I've read the discussion about polymorphing that was on one of those forums you pointed me at, Mr.Waesel, and I was rather surprised that any of those people, all of whom have many, many years of roleplaying under their belts, didn't just say "well, we house-rule it like this".

I mean, really. Yes it's broken. We all know that. Fix it with house-rules.

That's what they're there for.

So Druids can be powerful as they reach the higher levels. However this is balanced out by their limitations. Usually Druids in the games I run still have to belong to a Druidic order, and have a lot of duties and responsibilities tied back into that order.

Cheers,
TGHO

iron30 · Post by **iron30** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:57 am

RE: I think Druids are definitely not overpowered

High Level Monks are overpowered in my opinion ( I hate monks I don't allow them in my campaign ) but Druids I find kind of weak even at higher levels.

What exactly is so overpowering about a druid anyway ?

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:04 am

We did not say they were overpowering.... But a Lv.20 druid can shift into many nasty creatures, like a huge elemental (at least I think it is huge)

melancolly · Post by **melancolly** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:09 pm

thanks for all ye tips . the druid in question overpowers the other players because whenever a problem arises they always have a spell to deal with it . i think the druid is a very good all rounder whatever the situation .

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:41 pm

I don't think the Druid is overpowered, but if you are having trouble with a true neautral you should just hold them to the true neutral alignment much stricter than the other characters.. If he leans too far one way or another, force him to change to that way at least temporarily, or restrict XP for not RPing the alignment.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:11 pm

I'm still wondering what you mean by "access to all druid spells". Even if the party is of a reasonbly high level, they should not be able to handle every single situation immediately - some thought is required. If it's just whackage, then yes. How does the druid handle diplomatic/thiefy/alignment situations?

Cheers,
TGHO

melancolly · Post by **melancolly** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:39 pm

How does the druid handle diplomatic/thiefy/alignment situations?

Cheers,
TGHO[/QUOTE]

diplomatic = avoids at all costs , stays out of towns , rural turns into animal and spies
thiefy = turns into animal which ever suits situation
alignment = does whatever keeps them alive (group secondary)

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:30 pm

[QUOTE=Rob-hin]@ Mr Weasel
I somewhat agree. It depends on some points.
First of, level. A low lever druid is pretty weak IMO, the lower spells just aren't that great and good abilities come later.
[/QUOTE]

Blinding Spittle and Entangle are IMO some of the best level 1 spells in the game.

[QUOTE=The Great Hairy]If you go by the exact letter of the rules, then yes. However if you use some common sense, then no. I've read the discussion about polymorphing that was on one of those forums you pointed me at, Mr.Waesel, and I was rather surprised that any of those people, all of whom have many, many years of roleplaying under their belts, didn't just say "well, we house-rule it like this".

I mean, really. Yes it's broken. We all know that. Fix it with house-rules.

That's what they're there for.[/QUOTE]

But that's the Oberoni fallacy: Just because you can houserule it doesn't mean the designers don't have to put in any effort.

Besides, houserules make for bad discussions

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:13 pm

[QUOTE=melancolly]
diplomatic = avoids at all costs , stays out of towns , rural turns into animal and spies
thiefy = turns into animal which ever suits situation
alignment = does whatever keeps them alive (group secondary)[/QUOTE]

Huh, sounds like you need to set up a town based game for a couple of sessions. And set it up so they have to stay in town - like swamp the surrounding area with an enemy army and state "Sure you can stay outside the town. Gimme your character sheet and generate a new PC."

@Mr.Waesel
Blinding Spittle? I missed that one, which book is it in? Yeah, Entangle is very cool for lvl 1. However - it does not differentiate between "enemy" and "friend", as the Druid in one game I ran found out...

Oberoni fallacy? I've never heard that one before! Yes, I agree that the designers have to put in a lot more effort than they have, especially when it comes to tidying up some rule-holes. However, I don't think any group would allow those holes to remain within their game, so I would think there would be a plethora of house rules around to handle Druidic shapechanging. So a discussion of them would be worthwhile!

Cheers,
TGHO

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:26 am

Blinding Spittle is from Magic of Faerûn and Player's Guide to Faerûn.