Hello all, sorry to bother, but I've just started a Toreador going Celerity and firearms (Perception etc. as well )
I've currently got Cel3 and Firearms3, and it took me nearly 48 shots with my .38 to put the Blood Guardian in Gallery Noir to death. That's weak! I dread doing the warehouse quest, it's packed with people (and ghouls! ) that'll kick my behind. What did you guys do?
Compared to my Protean/Fortitude gangrel, this guy is mashed potatoes.
I wouldn't waste too many xp on upgrading your firearms skill if i were you, after all...this game is no FPS. I killed that creature quite easily with only a knife. Later, when you get a fire axe, or even better, a sword, you won't be needing firearms at all anymore. At least i never made much use of em. The maincharacter is a vampire, so i play as one....i bite.
Since the Blood Guardian is a sort of supernatural being, it's understandeable that he resists shots very well. The real problem -imho- is that the game does not seem to make any distinction between supernatural creatures and humans. Later in the game there are nasties resisting more than a couple of .44 magnum bullets at point blank range! This really ruins the gaming experience and makes the firearms completely useless.
Firearms start out fairly weak, that is true. But later in the game, guns catch up to the rest of the team and are quite competitive. My Mellee Tremere didn't hesitate to pull out his Anaconda (6 ranged skill) to soften up the opposition, or to handle freaks with celerity. The automatic shotgun got me through the Hollywood sewers, and a Utica shotgun made Jazabel Locke a walk in the park. Firearms suck at the start, but as soon as you get the shotgun (that should be during your next quest after the gallery) things start to even out...
Most of the firearms in VTM:B are useless, but the .44 magnum is very powerfull and probably (my opinion) the best gun in the game. It's accurate up to a far distance, reloads quite fast and has an alternate "fan" mode for mowing down groups of baddies.
Of course bloodstrike (thaumaturgy) is by far and away the best ranged weapons against supernatural creatures, and it doesn't require you to put any points in firearms either!
I've got to try celerity sometime and see what that's all about...
Firearms useless? Have you even tried them (at) all?
The key is to upgrade firearms and perception ASAP so you aim improves.
If you don't do this than don't expect to own with guns no. But if you do combined with a good character choise than firearms own melee and has much more versatile gameplay.
I've gone almost the same way as you. Only I pumped Celerity to 3 before getting firearms4 and perception3. I've this superhero-fetish, you see.
Oh, and a newbie question here: How on earth do I get to Fat Larry? I almost got my ass kicked by the second Plaguebearer because I had to take him out with the .38! I'm in big need of shells!
[QUOTE=Jandau]Firearms start out fairly weak, that is true. But later in the game, guns catch up to the rest of the team and are quite competitive. My Mellee Tremere didn't hesitate to pull out his Anaconda (6 ranged skill) to soften up the opposition, or to handle freaks with celerity. The automatic shotgun got me through the Hollywood sewers, and a Utica shotgun made Jazabel Locke a walk in the park. Firearms suck at the start, but as soon as you get the shotgun (that should be during your next quest after the gallery) things start to even out...[/QUOTE]
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I played a gun-toting Ventrue, but at the beginning of the game I put a few points in brawl just to take on the big guys like the Blood Guardian. Raise your unarmed to about 4 or 5 and you're set for melee encounters for a while, until guns really become insanely powerful, especially towards the end of the game, The alternate play-style they provide definately makes them worthwhile to try, and when you're mowing down enemies with a Killmatic you'll forget about melee pretty quickly. Sure, its harder in the beginning, but worth it in the end. And if I, an terrible FPS player, can beat this game with firearms, so can you, so never fear.
And Fat Larry is located behind the white truck at the side of Ventrue Tower. As you face Ventrue Tower entrance, head right, take a left on the intersection, and go behind the truck.
As I said, the greatest problem is weapon damage versus humans! The system is balanced for undead creatures but a vampire hunter taking 2-3 direct shots at close range and still surviving is unrealistic. And it seems to me that humans lack special damage zones (while zombies and certain bosses had them implemented: try aiming at their head).
This aspect defeacts one of the greatest advantages of ranged weapons, that is stopping the enemies from coming at close range.
I think firearms are definately a little underpowered across the board. Especially the shotguns! Personally, I think that two point blank head shots with a shotgun should take the head off anything but a boss monster! Sadly, it doesn't work that way in the game.
Still, if you max out your "Ranged" skill by putting points in Firearms, Perception, etc. you'll do OK once you get the .44 Anaconda or the .50 cal Desert Eagle. The .44 actually does a little more damage per shot, but the Eagle shoots faster and gives more shots between reloads. They work nicely for picking off Zombies or pretty much anything else. But, be prepared to use 4 to 6 shots for a vampire! The "Jamie Sue" is sweet! Definately the gun for all your sniping needs!
Still, if you're getting mobbed, you're definately going to want to have put some points into your Melee skill, Strength, etc. The swords work great with crowds (knife and axe will do until you get a sword)! It helps to have a good "Crowd Control" discipline, such as "Mass Suicide" as well!
If they'd increase firearm damage by about 10% across the board and put Phosperous(sp?) bullets on sale somewhere in the game (for the Vamps), you could effectively specialize in Firearms. As it is, there are still going to be situations where melee is going to be your best choice.
PS- You do know that you can map weapons, disciplines or blood packs to your "Hot Keys" (#'s 1-0) for instant use right? Default key for this is "K".
dude check out the firearms guide --> http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... +character
than you`ll see how to handle guns ;] and they are really powerfull when combined with celerity, other melee characters will never hurt you because you will outrun them
[QUOTE=Maxinion]Raise your unarmed to about 4 or 5 and you're set for melee encounters for a while[/QUOTE]
In truth, all you need to do is raise it to two. Then get Nines to train you up to 3, and top it off with the Brawl Manual found in Boris's penthouse at the Empire Hotel in Downtown. That's all I ever needed when it came to melee- and when I was fighting somebody who was really difficult and really resistant to guns, I'd just use Blood Buff. Bam. Brawl skill at 9. Pretty much able to take anything your guns can't.
On the subject of guns themselves, I wouldn't say they're anywhere near underpowered. Once you get your hands on a Brokk, you're pretty much set for the game. With a high fire rate and clip size, good accuracy and recoil, and the ability to do about 30 per hit once you fully upgrade your ranged skill (less to supernaturals, however), it's quite a solid gun. Of course, the Anaconda and McLusky are even better. I must say I'm not particularly a big fan of shotguns, however. They could have used some more power. But regardless, the Braddock- and later Killmatic- are both excellent choices for close-range combat, and can serve as excellent crowd control as well. As has already been mentioned, the Jaime Sue is an amazing sniper rifle- and the Steyr doesn't perform too shabbily in that department as well, especially with an added bonus of automatic fire. And then, of course, there's the flamethrower. Once you get your hands on one of them, boss battles become a walk in the park.
So I don't know. Maybe it's just because my firearms character was a Toreador who, with Auspex, could get a Ranged Combat feat of 13. Maybe the Celerity helped as well. But that's the thing- certain clans just perform better as certain roles, and a ranged Toreador is one of those nice combinations. Nobody's going around complaining that their melee-only Tremere is underpowered, are they?
[QUOTE=msxyz]As I said, the greatest problem is weapon damage versus humans! The system is balanced for undead creatures but a vampire hunter taking 2-3 direct shots at close range and still surviving is unrealistic. And it seems to me that humans lack special damage zones (while zombies and certain bosses had them implemented: try aiming at their head).
This aspect defeacts one of the greatest advantages of ranged weapons, that is stopping the enemies from coming at close range.[/QUOTE]
That's a problem, yes, but I don't think it ruins firearms. Almost all FPSs (and yes, I know Bloodlines is not an FPS, don't flame me) have this unrealistic model of several bullets for a kill. Think about it though-- if at the end of the game you were killing Sabbat with 1 hit from your Colt, where would the challenge be? Yes, its artificial, but that's how it works. Same as in all RPGs-- no one alive is going to take a critical hit from a claymore and live to talk about it, but we see that in DnD and all of its derivatives day in and day out. I think that the game is balanced fine, and the lack of realism is attributable to this being a game, after all.
Firearms are not weak. They actually compete easily with melee as you gain access to the better ones, the Colt and Killmaster comes to mind. Personally I played as a Ventrue, focusing mainly on firearms and social skills. With 5 in Perception, and 5 in Firearms I ran into zero problems in the end game. In fact, the final boss barely touched me as I mowed it down in seconds with my Killmaster.
I'm currently playing as a Ranged Focused Tremere, and I must say that combining ranged weaponry with Thamaturgy makes up a most enjoyable experience.
Tremere and firearms make for a very good mix. The beginning of the game was much harder than with my axe-murderer Malkavian, but the endgame was much easier.
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