Romanian revolution of 1989

Volk · Post by **Volk** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:28 pm

On December 16th the brakeout of the Revolution against commuism started, many men, women and children died at the hands of tanks, armored vehicles and fireing squads for suporting a just cause of freedom.

December 18th over 30 young studenents most of where where under 16 years old, died to a squad who opened fire on them for baring the Romanian coat of arms and flag, most died, some didnt and lay on the roads bleeding to death or beeing ran over by tanks and APCs.

By December 22nd the army was without a leader and many solders decided to join the peoples revolution, without orders from superiors they realised the maddness that had happened, and sought to end it.

On December 25th the communist leader was found guilty of crimes agains the people and against humanty, he and his wife where both sentanced to death by fireing squad.

Though the death of the communist leader was marked on the 25th the fighting contiinued untill the 27th of December in many parts of the world.

It is unknown how many died in the revolution but over 95% of the casulaties, both fatal and not where civilan casulaties, many where poor schoolage children wanted a better life themselves and instead ended up making the ultimate sacrifice for their friends, family and country.

Many innocents died in brief confrontations betwen the army and the rebelious forces, they died knowing that they had nothing to lose, they died for their country and i salute them.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:00 pm

It was a faux-revolution. Even then there were suspicions about it, but it's now known that it was engineered by a number of the higher officials in the Communist Party, led by Ion Iliescu. They were afraid of a groundswell that would sweep them from power and potentially land many in prison, since Ceausescu was the most brutal and repressive of the Eastern European dictators of that period. By engineering an overthrow that led Ceausescu to his death, the officials around him were able to stay on top, and move around the elements of power under new names to give a sense of change.

The real revolution occurred years later in 1996, when the Communist Party, re-christened the National Salvation Front, found themselves unable to deal with rising unemployment, hyper-inflation, and a tide of corruption, as they tried to slowly move towards a market economy without benefit of Soviet assistance. Iliescu was voted out, and the Jiu Valley coal miners who had been their staunchest allies faded back into the mountains.

Volk · Post by **Volk** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:49 pm

I did not post this to debate, i posted to inform others. I dont care who took power and why because honestly i lost too many friends in the fighting to care.

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:58 pm

Has anyone here ever read an interesting book called "Vampire Nation" by Thomas Sipos? This thread brought it to mind ...

Peace.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:59 pm

Volk, I wasn't posting to debate, either. If facts are inaccurate, they need to be corrected, to set the record straight. Many people lost their lives in 1989; it's important I think for us all to know the past, so we can learn from it. If we don't draw the correct conclusions, we're likely to make the wrong assumptions--in this case, that emotion, numbers, and arms can sweep all aside--when in fact, clear heads and good analysis are needed, if people aren't to die just so those in power can make it appear to everybody as though they're really freedom fighters. The real revolution came in 1996, when the nation stood up, and shouted NO at the corrupt bureaucracy: we see you for what you are, horrific killers in liberators' clothing.

Volk · Post by **Volk** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:35 pm

You dont seem to understand the fact that innocent civilians died without just cause, those who rebeled did NOT kill ANYONE, they simply protested against the communist regime.

And also you dont seem to understand what communism truely was, it was a regime where speaking out against the government would get you life in prison or if you where lucky death.

You say 1996 was the true revolution and maybe in it was, the point is NOT 1996, the point is that innocent civilians who wanted a better life died in 1989 for freedom.

Now Fable, dont take this the wrong way but i DOUBT you've ever had military personel open fire on your friends fammily and relatives with machineguns and tank shells, in your country or in your lifetime, i have and that changed the way i think and it changed my respect towards those who chose to ignore death and think political corectnes is the answer to everything.

If that was true then why did communists rule with an iron hand, and why where the second and third weeks of december 1989 a bloody day in my countries history, because romania was a democratic country where people could speak up? NO, because it was ruled with an iron hand and because when people DID speak up they got murdered en mass.

You say that romanians only spoke up in 1996, but your way off my friend, we spoke up in 1989 and got murdered by the numbers for it,it brought us closer to the goal for a democratic country, but at the cost of human life.

Thoes who started the revolution did so WITHOUT ARMS because it was NOT POSSIBILE to own arms as a civilian in romania unlike in america, the only death to military personel was caused by other military personel who joined the cause of freedom, not once did any civilian open fire on any millitary units to my knowledge and from what i witnessed. Yet you acuse my people of beeing horiffic killers in freedom fighters clothes?

If you make such acusations against those who fight for democracy you better have some proof of it, because most of the casualties in the rebelion where civilian, and they where NOT ARMED.

But i wont argue with you, frankly if you want to corect me go ahead i could not care less i was there and i doubt you where, so please make plausible acusations and dont turn my people into murderers without proof, or without knowing what your talking about.

Frankly if this gets me banned so be it, i know then that it was pointles for me to try to fit into the GB community seeing as though im simply a murderer posing as a freedom fighter in the eyes of an american.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:10 pm

Volk, if you can write

But i wont argue with you, frankly if you want to corect me go ahead i could not care less i was there and i doubt you where, so please make plausible acusations and dont turn my people into murderers without proof, or without knowing what your talking about.

...then you're reading precisely the opposite of what I wrote, and I honestly have no idea where you got that. Please reread my remarks.

Now Fable, dont take this the wrong way but i DOUBT you've ever had military personel open fire on your friends fammily and relatives with machineguns and tank shells, in your country or in your lifetime, i have and that changed the way i think and it changed my respect towards those who chose to ignore death and think political corectnes is the answer to everything.

I've lost several close friends that way, in China, Argentina, and Chile. And most of my family, all Ukrainians, were killed between Stalin and Hitler. Only the ones that got out to Canada and the US survived, save for one remaining female relative, who married and had a son. Well, there's also an aunt of mine who was carried away to slave labor in Germany, but as nothing was ever heard about her again--we can count her, can't we?

Frankly if this gets me banned so be it, i know then that it was pointles for me to try to fit into the GB community seeing as though im simply a murderer posing as a freedom fighter in the eyes of an american.

I'm thoroughly confused. Are you saying you were a member of Iliescu's regime, the former Communists who led the revolt? If so, then yes: yours was a cynical ploy to grab the reins of power, and I'll maintain that because it's the truth. But people who genuinely fight for freedom aren't to be castigated when duped by those in power. They're to be praised for what they tried to do. So what are you saying, here? And how does my being an American citizen affect anything, in your opinion?

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:31 pm

A little reminder, Volk...

... I don't see anything wrong with fable's post. Judging with the way you reacted, I think I can safely say that you have misread fable's input and misconstrued it for something else.

I would strongly suggest that you reread his post before being too emphatic on someone's view to the point of seeing it the way it was not intended to be.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:24 am

[QUOTE=Volk]And also you dont seem to understand what communism truely was, it was a regime where speaking out against the government would get you life in prison or if you where lucky death.[/QUOTE]

Volk, I think we should be happy for them not knowing what it was like.

I don't know if you're originally Romanian or Hungarian, but either way I'd like to know your opinion about the recent referendum about the Hungarians in Romania getting dual citizenship. If you're willing to discuss, I'd be really happy to hear what you think, I haven't had the chance to talk about it with anyone living in Romania yet.

Shai Hulud · Post by **Shai Hulud** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:33 pm

I wanted to post this quick summary to refresh everones minds:

BBC - Romania's Bloody Revolution