Before or After?

Cowled Kensai · Post by **Cowled Kensai** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:44 pm

Should I kill Firekraag and the shadow dragon before or after the Asylem since I have statrted my first Aran shadow theif quest. I am currently an 11mage/9kensai and most party members are lvls 10-11. Also is it possible to kill Kangaax at my level?

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:34 pm

There's no harm in trying.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:04 am

If you have spell immunity then yes it's very possible to kill Kangaxx without much if any trouble. Just learn a few tactics by looking it up on the boards here, I presume there's some decent Dragon Slaying tactics both cheesy and legitimate on this board as well.

Firkraag I would say is much more trouble than Kangaxx and you'll definately have trouble with him. The shadow dragon is probably the weakest of the dragons and again with careful planning you'll be able to get him as well.

Personally it doesn't sound like you've done all the available quests to only be level 10 or 11 (just out of dungeon

), so presumeably you don't have very good items. Building up your levels before tackling the Dragons and Liches is a good idea before going to spellhold for many reasons.

As a note it is possible to complete every quest on the main land before going to spellhold.

ensaro dai · Post by **ensaro dai** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:11 am

Buy a protection from magic scroll, and let some1 melee him to death, he cant be hit

.. Only thing u need is a weapon that is able to damage Kangaxx/Firkaag, than its easy

(cheesy btw

)

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:30 am

another thing to consider is Imoen's level - she'll be level 12 or so mage when you rescue her. if you complete all the high-xp quests before going to spellhold, she'll be a bit lower in levels than the rest of the party.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:42 am

[QUOTE=Mirk]another thing to consider is Imoen's level - she'll be level 12 or so mage when you rescue her.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. Imoen could be as much as 5 levels higher, depending upon how much experience your party has gained before freeing her.

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:25 am

"Imoen could be as much as 5 levels higher, depending upon how much experience your party has gained before freeing her."

Really? I've never noted this in any of my games. She always seems to come in around 11th-12th level for me, regardless of my level. Is what you're saying documented anywhere, any reference allowing one to approximately predict what level she'll be based on your current level when you pick her up?

Also, if there really is a scale based on the party's current level, I wonder if the SwashImoen mod does the same?

Qwinn

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:39 am

I've been looking around on the Web, and found the following in a thread in another forum:

IIRC, there are only 3 versions of the Spellhold Imoen--she is at Mage levels 8, 9, and 11, respectively.

There are arguments from other posters in that thread, who state that a 13th level Imoen is also available. So others can confirm that there are variants of Imoen with different levels of experience; however, I'm probably off regarding the levels she'll have. These are the recruitable Imoens in Shadowkeeper:

CUIOMEN2.cre: 7/11
CUIOMEN3.cre: 7/11
DPIMO01.cre: 7/8
IMOEN10.cre: 7/8 (Imoen's Belt)
IMOEN15.cre: 7/13 (ToB equipment)
IMOEN211.cre: 7/11
IMOEN213.cre: 7/13
IMOEN6.cre: 6/10 (Imoen's Belt, & the equipment she had at the start of BG1, minus the Studded Leather Armor and the Wand of MM)
PPDRIM0.cre: 7/8 (Imoen's Belt)
PPIMOEN.cre: 7/8 (Imoen's Belt)
finimoen.cre: 7/24 (boosted STR & DEX, ToB equipment)

None of this means you have to rush out and grab Imoen as soon as you can, because her level will be closer ot your party's. Some players have suggested she will always be somewhat lower in experience than the party that finds her. And in any case, lower level characters advance quicker. Besides, is the idea to enjoy playing the game successfully, or is the goal to squeeze the most experience out of every encounter and circumstance, following a schematic?

Qwinn · Post by **Qwinn** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:18 am

No, I agree that's not the issue. Imoen gets plenty high by the end of ToB, so it's not a huge concern, at least given the information you've just shared. The difference between 8 and 11 is no big deal at all, or even 13. It's just that the way I read your previous post, I thought you were saying that you could actually get Imoen at around -17th- level ("5 levels higher" than the 12 that Mirk mentioned). Now there, we're talking a good 1.5-2 million xp difference, and if it were really possible to pick her up that high, I have to admit I'd be in less of a hurry to go get her, heh.

For the record, I believe that if you use the SwashImoen mod (and you don't rush to Spellhold, I did about 60-70% of available quests in Chapter 3 when I tried it), you'll likely get her just shy of 11th level (which is also just shy of reactivating her 10th level swashbuckler skills). I have to admit I really do prefer SwashImoen, though the fact that she's -totally- useless in Chateau Irenicus (she's 10th/1st with that mod installed) is just the price you have to pay for balance

Qwinn

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:57 am

[QUOTE=fable]These are the recruitable Imoens in Shadowkeeper:[/QUOTE]
@Fable: I'm not sure what you mean by "recruitable". Not all of them appear in the game and ask if they can join your party. For example, some of the "Imoens" on your list appear only in cutscenes (where their level and equipment and so forth is irrelevant). FINIMOEN.CRE is a custom file, so that one might be the result of a mod (I think it might have been added by the Ascension Mod), and if that's the case, that particular "Imoen" won't join your party. Since you have listed all of the others, perhaps I should also mention TTIMOEN.CRE, which is the one that appears in the tutorial. There's also one named simply "IMOEN.CRE" which appears to be leftover junk, not an actual character.

To everyone: To the best of my knowledge, here are the "Imoens" that can join your party:
IMOEN10 - The "standard" Imoen (95,000XP) that joins you at the beginning of BG2
IMOEN211 - One of the two "Imoens" that can join you in Spellhold (400,000XP)
IMOEN213 - The other "Imoen" that can join you in Spellhold (1,300,000XP)
IMOEN15 - The one that can join you in TOB (2,500,000XP)

Two important things should be noted. First of all, the "Imoen2" you meet in Spellhold is not the "Imoen" you meet in Irenicus's dungeon. They have different soundsets and different scripts. If you edited Imoen at the beginning of the game (which I often do), you'll have to edit her again after you rescue her in Spellhold. This does not apply to mods that have the "Forever Imoen" feature, or presumably mods such as SwashImoen. If you look at your saved games in Shadowkeeper, you'll see that "Imoen" is a member of your party in Chapter One, while "Imoen2" is a member of your party in Chapters Four through Six.

Second of all, Imoen can be found at two different experience levels in Spellhold. I have no idea how the game determines which level she will be when she joins your party. As a general rule, if your main character has over 400,000XP, Imoen2 might have 1,300,000XP. Or, she might not. If you feel cheated, then I suggest that you use cheat codes to make it right.

Personally, when I play, I do my best to enjoy the game without worrying about whether my characters are maxed out and god-like, just as I don't worry about whether my own life is as perfect as possible.

I thought I would enjoy Tactics and Improved Battles in my last game, but the difficulty made the game a lot less lifelike. Instead of being immersed in an artificial environment, I was all too aware that I was playing a game, and it simply wasn't as much fun as pretending that it was real. The next time I play, I think I'll stick with a more "vanilla" experience that doesn't require so many reloads and take whatever comes my way. Reality isn't perfect, you know.

Kambion · Post by **Kambion** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:32 pm

kill'em all if you can

Shadow dragon is the weakest, i killed him when was kensai9/mage11 (my teammates were average 11)

Kangaxx is simple too, but do you have +5 weapon?

Firkraag is rather tough beast especially if you don't have crom fayer and silver sword, but try.

Good luck.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:44 pm

@Fable: I'm not sure what you mean by "recruitable". Not all of them appear in the game and ask if they can join your party.

True, but my point in any case (which I thought was clear

) was that there's more than one experience level at which you'll find Imoen in Spellhold, for recruitment. She's not going to have, as some have claimed, a single level of unvarying experience.

As a general rule, if your main character has over 400,000XP, Imoen2 might have 1,300,000XP. Or, she might not.

Have you found this to be the case? I mean, acquiring Imoen for your party when you had done most of the chapter 2 quests yielded the less powerful Imoen? I've not had this happen. It's always been my hero's more experienced if still bratty sister who's joined a truly veteran party.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:49 am

[QUOTE=fable]Have you found this to be the case? I mean, acquiring Imoen for your party when you had done most of the chapter 2 quests yielded the less powerful Imoen?[/QUOTE]
I cannot answer your question as stated, because I have never played a game in which I had done most of the quests in Chapter Two. I don't see the point in doing all of the quests before going to Spellhold, especially not if I want Imoen in my party when I'm doing them. Besides, I don't want the game to be completely linear for the last four chapters. My main character has always had something between 500,000XP to 1,250,000XP when she arrived in Spellhold. By my reckoning, a "veteran party" who had done all of the quests in Chapter Two would have about 2,000,000XP each, and my parties have never had anything close to that. So, to answer your question, I've never actually seen a "veteran party" like the one you described meet an "Imoen2" with only 400,000XP. But if I recall correctly, I have seen a mid-level party (somewhere between 500,000XP and 1,250,000XP) meet the "inexperienced Imoen2" in at least two different games. In one of those cases, I was surprised that she was so far behind the rest of my party. I'm confident that I will meet the "veteran Imoen2" if I have done about half of the quests in Chapter Two, and that's actually part of my strategy to maximize my party's experience. (A little bit of "meta-gaming" doesn't hurt.)

@Cowled Kensai: To answer your questions, it's tough to kill a dragon at 10th-11th level, but it can be done (even without Crom Faeyr or the Silver Sword). I can't really put my finger on it, but Firkraag does seem a bit tougher than the Shadow Dragon (although the Shadow Dragon's level-draining breath weapon and use of the Death spell to kill summoned creatures should give you pause). In any case, it's harder to reach Firkraag than it is to reach the Shadow Dragon because the Windspear Hills quest is harder than the Umar Hills quest. If the Shadow Dragon is too tough for you, you can use a wardstone to pass by him and come back to fight him later when you're better prepared. Fighting Firkraag (or any of the other dragons in the game) is also optional.

You can kill Kangaax at any level if you have a Berserker in your party (or a scroll of Protection Against Magic) and the Improved Mace of Disruption. It's so easy that way, I'd rather do something more challenging.

A Mage with Spell Immunity: Abjuration and some way of inflicting fire damage faster than Kangaxx can regenerate is one alternative. If all else fails, a 34th Level Cleric can make him explode by using Turn Undead.

Deadalready · Post by **Deadalready** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:55 am

[color=dark orange]Spoilers Alert[/color]

Of all the times I've played I prefer to do all the quests on the mainland before going to Spellbound because the game is practically over by the time you come back anyway, also getting into fights with vampires early on is an annoying thing.

If you've fought all the Liches up to Kangaxx then defeating him should really not be a problem, of all the times I've played I've used the spells Spell Immunity and Melf's Minute Meteors to defeat him and that ring makes it a beautiful treat to carry for the rest of the game. One note I must bring up is when fighting Kangaxx then you can't use a protection from undead scroll because it'll ruin his scripts and you'll fight a never ending and never dying version of Kangaxx.

With the Dragons you have to take a large amount of care and precaution because their fighting abilities are par to none. Personally I prefer to use Mordenkainen's swords to distract (but that's a high level spell) or running about with a dragon chasing me into a prelaid minefield of skull traps. The major problem is their magic resistance and you'll need the right spells to lower it.

Personally I'd probably leave most of the big monsters to kill untill later since almost all of them you can avoid, but at the same time if you have the galls they can be defeated with planning.

Other groups to consider include the Hidden Rune can be killed early, I've gotten myself the staff of the magi at level 11 with a solo sorcerer many times.