Will This Work!?

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:37 pm

Allrighty: now, I'm currently attempting to create an evil Spell-Caster, and so I have the following thoughts:

I am currently a wizard. I continue to be a wizard up until lvl 17, after which point I have all of the spells and a powerful Familiar. I then Multiclass a Monk for a level, largely to gain Cleave and perhaps another feat, if this works as I think it should. Then, I become a Blackgaurd, and level that ad infinitum.

If I have planned this correctly, I should end up with a strong caster, with both a familiar and an Undead/Fiendish (by Level) servant. Furthermore the Blackgaurd would allow me to take a bit of punishment, so I don't have to start running the moment a monster looks at me cross-eyed.

Here is my question: Will this work? I've never played NWN before, nor DnD, so I am not certain that I am not missing something important. will this be an effective idea, and am I missing out some major flaw in the design. Any comments would be appreciated. Lastly, does being a Blackgaurd increase the number of feats I can get?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:28 am

Rules wise I would think it could work when looking at the Blackguards requierments.
As for how good a character it is - that I'll leave up to others that "care" more about that.
But generally if you wish to try it - then try it out. Most any character can complete the game.

However - when you say that you have never played NwN before - then it springs to mind which version of the game you have, because that might set the limits for you.
If you have NwN+Shadows of Undretide + Hordes of the Underdark (or platinum I belive the full box is labled) then you should be okay. If you lack some of these parts of the game, then it will be all but impossible for you.

swcarter · Post by **swcarter** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:29 am

A couple things:

1. Cleave is a general feat, but it requires power attack, and power attack requires 13+ strength. So you don't need to take a monk level for it.

2. I don't think wizards and blackguards go really well together, especially if you're only playing the official campaigns (meaning you probably won't hit level 30). Shields and armor cause spell failure for wizards, and the feats that let you avoid it are all epic. You're probably better off staying as a pure caster, and only taking a level or two of other classes for specific bonuses (like saving up skill points so you can take a monk level and use it to max tumble).

SWC

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:31 am

Okay, a few points:

1: I Don't have HotU and SoU yet, but I am getting them right now, which is why I am arranging it so that it is a while before I need to use a prestige class.

2: Thing is, I am currently a very weedy wizard. I am saving up loads of skill points, so my essential Idea is to takea level of monk at 18, max out a couple of monk skills, and then get Cleave without having to either level my strength, which is at about 8 or so, or use up a feat slot for Powerattack. Taking a level of monk struck me as the most painless way of getting Cleave.

3: I will be Epic almost immediatly after I take Blackgaurd levels. at lvl 21, I'll be a Wiz/Mnk/Blck, 17/1/3, so I'll be able to get the epic feats. Furthermore, though I am not certain, Combat-type characters usually get more feats then caster types, (Or at least so it was Done in KOTOR, which uses this rule system, and I think it's done this way in DnD) so I'll be able to get a few more Epic Spells. (Hellball.....

) The Blackgaurd level should give me then extra feats, an additional summonable minion, considerably higher HP, (d10 rather then d6). The armor doesn't really figure into it as much as the HP does. Besides, I'll be able to get Epic Mage Armor almost immediatly after I take the Blck Levels. Besides, it fits my evil character.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:48 am

Well - a few things (away from my manual so some of this is based of memory).

1) While it is possible to play all three "games" in a row with the same character, it will make SoU incredible boring, seeing as that expansion is made for a level 1 character

HotU is made for higher level characters and storyline-wise follows on SoU.
The level you most likely will end up at by playing normally through NwN->SoU->HotU is around level 27-30, so either calculate with playing through the game more then once or calculate that into your character equation

2) As for your character build - then I will not really comment, because that is not "my thing"

. I am all for playing wierd concepts

(just remember finess and finess weapons if you wish to meele decently with 8 strength, if you dexterity is higher - or stock up on strength buffing items).

3) The epic rules will get in your way if I recall correct.
Your character will be epic after level 20, but that dosen't mean your class' will be epic. A L17wizard/10 Blackguard will be an epic character - but neither Blackguard nor wizard will be epic classes.
To gain wizard specific epic-feats, I recall you have to be an epic wizard and not just an epic character. That means 21+ wizard levels. (granted - as mentined - I'm away from my manual, so can't check up on this).
So spellcasting in armour will be a problem.

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:13 am

1: According to Epic Rules, (Or so it says elsewhere on this site, I did a search, either Pale Master or Blackgaurd) with the base classes, you just have to be a 21st level character, not necessarily a 21st lvl Wizard. With the Prestige Classes, you are right, you need to be 11th Level Blackgaurd. Accordingly, I should get the Epic wizardry spells and such once I hit lvl 21, or to be precise, wiz/mnk/blk 17/1/3 with the faster feats for more Epic wizard abilities.

2: I like weird builds too, they don't always work but when they do, *Whistles*

3: I'll think about the whole 3 game idea, but if I remember properly, the main NWN takes you to about lvl 25 or so, so I'll be able to tell whether I want to perhaps refine the character further or try something else along different lines. (Rogue/Assassin anyone?) I like evil...

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:24 am

1.) I'm still not quite sure with the "epic class specific" feats compared to "generel epic" feats. Some epic feats are class-specific whereas others are generel for all epic classes, and I seem to recall from somewhere that class-specific feats requier the class to be epic and not just the character.
But I will have to test it out when I get home to be sure

I just recall testing something similar before, but I can of course be mistaken.... it is afterall quite some time since I played NwN.

3.) The original NwN takes you (post-patch 1.62 I belive was the patch) to around L16 (was around L18 earlier).
The Levels that I have normally optained is L16 in NwN, L12 in SoU (L18/19 I belive when playing after NwN) and if playing through all 3 games I belive I ended up near 28-ish in end of HotU (L25-26 when playing from NwN, and about the same when starting from SoU only).
Remember that level cap in the original NwN is also L20 (so you couldn't have gotten to L25 "legally"

) withouth the HotU expansion, and I don't even think that NwN can handle L20+ characters withouth messing up xp

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:54 pm

Are you sure about those levels? I just finished Chapter 1 and I'm already lvl 7, so it would be strange if my leveling gets cut to a quarter from here on in.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:50 pm

[QUOTE=NeoTiamat]Are you sure about those levels? I just finished Chapter 1 and I'm already lvl 7, so it would be strange if my leveling gets cut to a quarter from here on in.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that with 3rd ed. rules, low-level progression is much faster than at later levels. Monsters give more xp at a lower lever (because the CR of the monster, in relation to your level, is higher). Your level progression will slow down, especially with the level cap at 20.

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:49 pm

If you say so...

*Shrug*

I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:13 am

[QUOTE=NeoTiamat]Are you sure about those levels? I just finished Chapter 1 and I'm already lvl 7, so it would be strange if my leveling gets cut to a quarter from here on in.[/QUOTE]

Yep - I'm quite sure that thoese were the levels I've reached in my games.
Using henchmen and summons plus "milking" some XP spots (can't remember any at the moment) can make your level vary with a few levels.

As Aegis says - leveling happens faster in the earlier part of the game due to the D&D mechanics.

Coo · Post by **Coo** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:45 am

Does the level of the blackguard's fiendish ally depend on blackguard level or character level? If it depends on blackguard level, you might as well as stick to wiz and cast "Gate" instead.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:25 am

I've not played Blackguard myself - but I'd strongly suspect that it depends on the Blackguard levels and not the characters combined levels.

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:17 am

Character suggestion

As a suggestion, try Sorcerer/Monk/BG.

The Sorcerer and BG both use Charisma as their primary stat. The Sorcerer needs it for spellcasting, and the BG adds the Cha bonus to saves and uses it for turning undead and smite good. You can also take divine shield and divine might to use a turn undead to add your cha bonus to AC and damage respectively.

The monk has no use for charisma but one level is still worthwhile to get Cleave and Evasion.

NeoTiamat · Post by **NeoTiamat** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:43 pm

The Issue is that I'm already a Wizard, and I'm not going to repeat the whole a chapter and a half. It's not that I want to play a Blackguard so much as I'm looking for an effective evil class combo for my wizard.

Coo · Post by **Coo** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:22 pm

Gee...you should have planned ahead earlier.

Magic users are not good muti-classing characters...

I think its better if you stop leveling your character as a Wiz and put your points in fighter levels or blackguard levels.

Thus by high level you will have a character that hits hard, and can cast quite a few good buffs, as opposed to a character that can't hit hard enough, can't damage enemies enough through spells and has summons that gets kill in a few rounds.

Forget damage spells, they won't work. Just learn all the nasty buffs. Can you cast stoneskin and improved invisibility yet? If not, you might want to level up another level in Wiz to get those two.

Having those levels in Wiz also allows you to use scrolls, so remember to keep those scolls of Tenser's Transformation handy for big bosses.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:42 pm

[QUOTE=Coo]Forget damage spells, they won't work. Just learn all the nasty buffs. Can you cast stoneskin and improved invisibility yet? If not, you might want to level up another level in Wiz to get those two.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry if I am rude, but are you Serious? Damage spells won't work? A mage can easily reduce a warrior to dust with a spell. take i.e Fireball, it has a reflex save, and there are not many plain fighters that has a high reflex. And later on, the mage get spells with fortitude save or die. Which still can be a problem for the fighter. phantasmal killer is a great spell to waste nasty things that get in your way (but IMo it is best for rogues).

Coo · Post by **Coo** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:33 pm

...-_-''

I was saying that offensive magic won't work for the character type I had suggested to him.

If he decides to make a mostly warrior + a few levels of Wiz type of character, learning buffs are far better than learning offensive magic, since he would be wearing armour. Also, due to the fact that his Wiz levels are probably less than 10, higher level enemies will easily save against/resist his offensive spells like fireball.

I plays Socs, I sure as hell know what spells like wail of the banshee and cone of frost can do.

Like I said before, Wiz muti-class are not really very effective. The only effective ones are Warrior-Wizard types or maybe rouge-wizard. Staying a Wiz is best, but NeoTiamat seems to want to muti-class very badly...

Coo · Post by **Coo** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:22 pm

I just remember another very effective build for Wiz-muticlass. Amazing how this could have slipped my mind.

Try muticlassing to a thief or a shadowdancer, at the same time put points into stealth skills (move silently etc) and learn silent spells feats. You can then move around in stealth mode and cast spells at will, without being found out, since you need not speak during spellcasting.

This build could potentially unbalance the game though, since you could easily take down loads of enemies without being hurt...

Eliswathe · Post by **Eliswathe** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:18 am

If you're playing an elf, why don't you become an arcane archer? that way, you won't need to put your points into strength but dexterility instead, which presumably should be higher than strength in a wizard build, you also won't need cumbersome armor which would result in arcane spell failure and there are some very nice bows around ( you can get a *beautiful* forever in the underdark! costly, though), and point blank shot is a great feat which I personally can never do without.