New to PS:T; Another "help me create my stats for NO" topic.
Hello, I got my hands on a copy of PS:T and need some help. I started a new character following the tips from the Dan guide and posts from this forum. The Nameless One stats chose were more geared for the dialogue and conversational aspect of the game. I enjoy a good story driven game, but I'm a little overwhelmed with all the content and areas to explore, plus all the people to talk to, and all the grouping NPC's.
What I would really like to do it play the game as a fighter or thief the first time through with limited group NPC's then again with a mage with most grouping/dialogue options. Before I do, I'd like to ask some questions =)
How much of the game will I miss if I play a combatant class, will I just be a stupid grunt that marches around, nods, and kills things with hardly any dialogue? Will I know anything of the story at the end of the game?
What are the major differences in the fighter and thief class (skills, weapons, etc)?
What are the optimal starting stats to create a powerful fighter or thief, or if possible, a powerful fighter or thief with some dialogue options?
What are the best weapons for damage for a fighter and a thief?
How can I play the game with minimum group NPC's that I have to worry about and manage?
Basically what I want to do is slaughter things without having having to worry about managing lots of group members. It would be great if I could be an awesome combatant, yet have decent dialogue options that will help with some of the story line.
I hope what I'm asking for isn't too confusing, my mind tends to go poo at 4am...especially when I'm at work =P
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
New to PS:T; Another help me create my stats for NO topic
Dialogue is an important part of PS:T. On the other hand, combat is practically optional. There are only four creatures that you have no choice but to fight. But if you enjoy combat, the game gives you the option to kill as many monsters as you like. The beauty of PS:T is that you can play it a lot of different ways. Even if you have high Wisdom and get to choose from a lot of different dialogue options, you can still resort to violence if you prefer. 
I don't think you'll miss much of the plot if you play a Fighter instead of a Mage; you will see less dialogue and be forced into more fights because you can't talk your way out of them. But even if you play a very wise, intelligent character and are able to read all of the dialogue that the game has to offer, there will still be a lot of unsolved mysteries, and you'll just have to get used to that.
Compared to a game like Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, the combat scenarios in PS:T aren't very complex. There aren't many enemy spellcasters, and it isn't difficult to coordinate your own attacks if you have a party of six. Essentially, you just need to keep your weaker party members back and let your strongest fighters gang up on the monsters (you will rarely ever encounter more than three at a time, with the primary exception of Under Sigil and a few special encounters).
When you switch classes, you still retain all of the fighting abilities you acquired as a Fighter; the main difference is the weapon restrictions. For example, if you become a Mage, you will be just as deadly with a dagger (which a Mage can wield) as you would be if you were still a Fighter.
The main difference between Thieves and Fighters (besides thieving skills) is backstabbing. Other than that, the only other difference is weapon restrictions--for example, a Thief cannot use axes or hammers. But Thieves and Fighters can both use knives and punch-daggers, so there is also a lot of overlap when it comes to weapons. If you put a lot of proficiency points into a weapon as a Fighter, you'll enjoy the benefits as a Thief as long as you choose weapons that are usable by a Thief.
No matter what class I play, my favorite weapons are knives and punch-daggers (proficiency: Fist, I think). They're great for backstabbing, and you can find some pretty nice weapons fairly early in the game.
Starting stats are not very critical, in my opinion. Any class benefits from high Wisdom, not only because of the dialogue options, but also because higher Wisdom lets you gain experience faster. As you level up, you automatically gain stat points. You can also gain stat points just by talking to people. The max for each stat is 25, and I'd say that 19 is optimal for each one. By that, I mean that more is always better, but 19 is the point at which you're really starting to shine.
I can understand the desire to create the most kick-ass character possible, and if that's your goal, I say go for it. But I hope you believe me when I tell you that you don't have to sweat over the details. Your character will be very powerful no matter what course you take. And furthermore, your character has a special gift that completely changes the nature of combat: if he gets killed, he gets right back up. Actually, he doesn't get right back up where he was killed--he wakes up in a safe place. Think about that for a moment. Can you think of a way to capitalize upon that fact and turn it into a strategy? I figured out all sorts of ways to exploit such things, and the game actually let me get away with it.
To get the best options when you first start the game, I recommend the following stats:
STR 10 (you can eventually raise it to 25 if you like--see below)
DEX 13 (raise to 18 ASAP if you want to play a Thief)
CON 10 (I never bother to raise it, since the Nameless One doesn't need more hit points and he regenerates)
INT 12 (it never needs to be higher than 19)
WIS 18 (add one more point at level-up and then try to raise it to 24 through dialogue options)
CHA 13 (add one more point and wear a +2 tattoo to raise it to 16 when you visit the Dead Nations)
There isn't really a level limit. There are a couple of places where monsters respawn endlessly (I think of them as training grounds), so you can become 65th Level if you like and max out all of your stats. If your Constitution is 24, you will have so many hit points and regenerate so fast, you probably won't find any monster that can kill you. Therefore you can kill the monsters casually, and that's when you can be creative and turn it into an art.
When you leave the Mortuary, you should keep Morte in your party. He's a great melee fighter because he has such high resistance to damage. If you head for the Alley of Dangerous Angles, you can let the two rival gangs kill each other (just lure one group into the other gang's territory) and pick up thousands of gold pieces' worth of treasure if you do it over and over. (When you leave the area and come back, they will respawn unless their leader is killed.) There aren't many weapons to buy until you get farther into the game, so head to the tattoo parlor and buy some tattoos. Armor? What's armor? Go find Dak'kon and keep him in your party at least until you meet Annah--that will give you enough time to decide whether you like him. If you like Annah (and I don't see why you wouldn't), be sure to ask her if she can show you some of her tricks; she can help you become a better Thief (and you can do the same for her).
I don't like Ignus or Vhailor, but you can let them join your party long enough to talk to them for some interesting benefits. Fall-From-Grace is a great character, and she's nice to have around, especially if you play a "contemplative" character as opposed to a ruffian. If you need a healer, she's your only choice. If you don't need her healing, she can cast some mean lightning bolts at high levels. If you're planning to get into a lot of combat, I suggest that you recruit Nordom, who is the only character in the game who can use ranged weapons. If you upgrade his stats (with dialogue and items) and equip him with the Lens of Seeing Double, he'll shoot down most of your enemies before they even reach you.
I think you ought to play the game and see how things work. Come back and tell us what you think about it. I'm sure you'll have some more questions for us, and we'd be glad to help.
I don't think you'll miss much of the plot if you play a Fighter instead of a Mage; you will see less dialogue and be forced into more fights because you can't talk your way out of them. But even if you play a very wise, intelligent character and are able to read all of the dialogue that the game has to offer, there will still be a lot of unsolved mysteries, and you'll just have to get used to that.
Compared to a game like Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, the combat scenarios in PS:T aren't very complex. There aren't many enemy spellcasters, and it isn't difficult to coordinate your own attacks if you have a party of six. Essentially, you just need to keep your weaker party members back and let your strongest fighters gang up on the monsters (you will rarely ever encounter more than three at a time, with the primary exception of Under Sigil and a few special encounters).
When you switch classes, you still retain all of the fighting abilities you acquired as a Fighter; the main difference is the weapon restrictions. For example, if you become a Mage, you will be just as deadly with a dagger (which a Mage can wield) as you would be if you were still a Fighter.
The main difference between Thieves and Fighters (besides thieving skills) is backstabbing. Other than that, the only other difference is weapon restrictions--for example, a Thief cannot use axes or hammers. But Thieves and Fighters can both use knives and punch-daggers, so there is also a lot of overlap when it comes to weapons. If you put a lot of proficiency points into a weapon as a Fighter, you'll enjoy the benefits as a Thief as long as you choose weapons that are usable by a Thief.
No matter what class I play, my favorite weapons are knives and punch-daggers (proficiency: Fist, I think). They're great for backstabbing, and you can find some pretty nice weapons fairly early in the game.
Starting stats are not very critical, in my opinion. Any class benefits from high Wisdom, not only because of the dialogue options, but also because higher Wisdom lets you gain experience faster. As you level up, you automatically gain stat points. You can also gain stat points just by talking to people. The max for each stat is 25, and I'd say that 19 is optimal for each one. By that, I mean that more is always better, but 19 is the point at which you're really starting to shine.
I can understand the desire to create the most kick-ass character possible, and if that's your goal, I say go for it.
But I hope you believe me when I tell you that you don't have to sweat over the details. Your character will be very powerful no matter what course you take. And furthermore, your character has a special gift that completely changes the nature of combat: if he gets killed, he gets right back up. Actually, he doesn't get right back up where he was killed--he wakes up in a safe place. Think about that for a moment. Can you think of a way to capitalize upon that fact and turn it into a strategy? I figured out all sorts of ways to exploit such things, and the game actually let me get away with it. To get the best options when you first start the game, I recommend the following stats:
STR 10 (you can eventually raise it to 25 if you like--see below)
DEX 13 (raise to 18 ASAP if you want to play a Thief)
CON 10 (I never bother to raise it, since the Nameless One doesn't need more hit points and he regenerates)
INT 12 (it never needs to be higher than 19)
WIS 18 (add one more point at level-up and then try to raise it to 24 through dialogue options)
CHA 13 (add one more point and wear a +2 tattoo to raise it to 16 when you visit the Dead Nations)
There isn't really a level limit. There are a couple of places where monsters respawn endlessly (I think of them as training grounds), so you can become 65th Level if you like and max out all of your stats. If your Constitution is 24, you will have so many hit points and regenerate so fast, you probably won't find any monster that can kill you. Therefore you can kill the monsters casually, and that's when you can be creative and turn it into an art.
When you leave the Mortuary, you should keep Morte in your party. He's a great melee fighter because he has such high resistance to damage. If you head for the Alley of Dangerous Angles, you can let the two rival gangs kill each other (just lure one group into the other gang's territory) and pick up thousands of gold pieces' worth of treasure if you do it over and over. (When you leave the area and come back, they will respawn unless their leader is killed.) There aren't many weapons to buy until you get farther into the game, so head to the tattoo parlor and buy some tattoos. Armor? What's armor?
Go find Dak'kon and keep him in your party at least until you meet Annah--that will give you enough time to decide whether you like him. If you like Annah (and I don't see why you wouldn't), be sure to ask her if she can show you some of her tricks; she can help you become a better Thief (and you can do the same for her).I don't like Ignus or Vhailor, but you can let them join your party long enough to talk to them for some interesting benefits. Fall-From-Grace is a great character, and she's nice to have around, especially if you play a "contemplative" character as opposed to a ruffian. If you need a healer, she's your only choice. If you don't need her healing, she can cast some mean lightning bolts at high levels. If you're planning to get into a lot of combat, I suggest that you recruit Nordom, who is the only character in the game who can use ranged weapons. If you upgrade his stats (with dialogue and items) and equip him with the Lens of Seeing Double, he'll shoot down most of your enemies before they even reach you.
I think you ought to play the game and see how things work. Come back and tell us what you think about it. I'm sure you'll have some more questions for us, and we'd be glad to help.
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Vicsun
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Great post, VonDondu!
There's only one thing I would like to add: don't play with a small party. The unfolding stories of the different characters were, in my opinion, one of the aspects in which Planescape: Torment shines the most.
I understand you wish to initially play with a limited party to get a feel of the game, but I feel you'd be missing a lot this way. I don't think you'd find the stories as fascinating the second time you play through the game
There's only one thing I would like to add: don't play with a small party. The unfolding stories of the different characters were, in my opinion, one of the aspects in which Planescape: Torment shines the most.
I understand you wish to initially play with a limited party to get a feel of the game, but I feel you'd be missing a lot this way. I don't think you'd find the stories as fascinating the second time you play through the game
Vicsun, I certainly agree with your assertion that you are an unpleasant person. ~Chanak
WOW! Thanks for the GREAT info! I'm copying all of that down to a file for safe keeping =). I feel more comfortable tackling this game now, hehe.
So, it seems I really can't gimp myself if I be fighter or thief, since you can level so high. But, will NPC's be more challenging as I level higher or will I be say 65 and everything will be will be dead in 1 hit? I know I said I want to be powerful, but if that's the case, I may try to complete the game before a certain level so it won't become boring.
I"ll probably give the grouping a try, since it seems not to require so much of my time to manage like you guys said. I was wondering how would I setup a position to backstab with a group or even myself, will I have to put morte up front and then circle around, or is it possible to do it without a fighter up front taking the attention away from me?
Well, I just realized that I need to stop ask questions and start playing the game, haha. Again, thank you for wonderful information and I'll let you all know how it goes!
So, it seems I really can't gimp myself if I be fighter or thief, since you can level so high. But, will NPC's be more challenging as I level higher or will I be say 65 and everything will be will be dead in 1 hit? I know I said I want to be powerful, but if that's the case, I may try to complete the game before a certain level so it won't become boring.
I"ll probably give the grouping a try, since it seems not to require so much of my time to manage like you guys said. I was wondering how would I setup a position to backstab with a group or even myself, will I have to put morte up front and then circle around, or is it possible to do it without a fighter up front taking the attention away from me?
Well, I just realized that I need to stop ask questions and start playing the game, haha. Again, thank you for wonderful information and I'll let you all know how it goes!
My pleasure.
The monsters don't get any harder if you're really high in level. If you're playing a Mage and use some arcane strategies to dish out incredible amounts of damage, you can probably kill many of them in one round. A Thief can also kill a lot of the monsters with only one hit if you backstab them. But if you're playing a Fighter, most of the stronger monsters will require more than one hit. 30-40 points of damage is pretty good for a non-critical hit.
To backstab a monster, you have to hide in shadows when it can't see you and then sneak up on it from behind. I don't recommend using another member of your party as a decoy. Once you hit (or miss), you can run away and hide in shadows again when you're out of sight, and then you can go back and backstab the monster again.
To give you a feel for the challenges, let's use larva worms as an example. They're one of the best "experience cows" in the game (you can "milk" them for experience) because they respawn and they're worth a lot of experience (I think they're worth 6000 points apiece). You can enter Under Sigil when you're about 5th level. At that level, your party wouldn't survive if you tried to take on six larva worms at a time. But Annah or the Nameless One can sneak up on them and backstab them, and each of them will be dead in about three hits. You could call it the "hit and run" strategy. It's time-consuming, but it's effective. By the time you kill about 100 of the beasties, you'll be advanced enough to kill some of them with only one backstab, and your party won't be slaughtered if you try to take them head-on. You might lose a few battles, but if the Nameless One gets killed, you'll end up outside the entrance to Under Sigil, and the monsters will be waiting for you to attack them again. When you're about 11th-12th level, you'll be ready for just about everything else you meet in the game.
The game designers were quite aware that some players enjoy a mindless dungeon crawl, and they give you plenty of monsters to kill just for the sake of killing them for the experience. There are even some characters in the game who want to learn why adventurers love dungeon crawls, and you can take part in their experiments. (That's the second place in the game where you can earn endless amounts of experience.)
You are certainly free to skip Under Sigil if you don't see any point in killing hordes of monsters just for the experience. From a roleplaying perspective, it's a completely pointless detour. You don't even get paid for killing all of those monsters. But I would definitely complete one level in the Rubikon at the hardest difficulty level--if you're reading a walk-through, you can probably figure out why. After that, it's just as mindless and pointless (or just as much fun) as Under Sigil.
I don't recommend trying to reach 65th level, and I don't recommend spending all of your time in the "training grounds". There's no need to have such a high level character, and there are so many better things to do. I was just letting you know that you can do that if it appeals to you. I think you'd do just fine with a 20th Level Fighter or a 30th Level Mage. Anything beyond that is just ego-driven mania.
The monsters don't get any harder if you're really high in level. If you're playing a Mage and use some arcane strategies to dish out incredible amounts of damage, you can probably kill many of them in one round. A Thief can also kill a lot of the monsters with only one hit if you backstab them. But if you're playing a Fighter, most of the stronger monsters will require more than one hit. 30-40 points of damage is pretty good for a non-critical hit.
To backstab a monster, you have to hide in shadows when it can't see you and then sneak up on it from behind. I don't recommend using another member of your party as a decoy. Once you hit (or miss), you can run away and hide in shadows again when you're out of sight, and then you can go back and backstab the monster again.
To give you a feel for the challenges, let's use larva worms as an example. They're one of the best "experience cows" in the game (you can "milk" them for experience) because they respawn and they're worth a lot of experience (I think they're worth 6000 points apiece). You can enter Under Sigil when you're about 5th level. At that level, your party wouldn't survive if you tried to take on six larva worms at a time. But Annah or the Nameless One can sneak up on them and backstab them, and each of them will be dead in about three hits. You could call it the "hit and run" strategy. It's time-consuming, but it's effective. By the time you kill about 100 of the beasties, you'll be advanced enough to kill some of them with only one backstab, and your party won't be slaughtered if you try to take them head-on. You might lose a few battles, but if the Nameless One gets killed, you'll end up outside the entrance to Under Sigil, and the monsters will be waiting for you to attack them again. When you're about 11th-12th level, you'll be ready for just about everything else you meet in the game.
The game designers were quite aware that some players enjoy a mindless dungeon crawl, and they give you plenty of monsters to kill just for the sake of killing them for the experience. There are even some characters in the game who want to learn why adventurers love dungeon crawls, and you can take part in their experiments.
(That's the second place in the game where you can earn endless amounts of experience.)You are certainly free to skip Under Sigil if you don't see any point in killing hordes of monsters just for the experience. From a roleplaying perspective, it's a completely pointless detour. You don't even get paid for killing all of those monsters.
But I would definitely complete one level in the Rubikon at the hardest difficulty level--if you're reading a walk-through, you can probably figure out why. After that, it's just as mindless and pointless (or just as much fun) as Under Sigil.I don't recommend trying to reach 65th level, and I don't recommend spending all of your time in the "training grounds". There's no need to have such a high level character, and there are so many better things to do. I was just letting you know that you can do that if it appeals to you. I think you'd do just fine with a 20th Level Fighter or a 30th Level Mage. Anything beyond that is just ego-driven mania.
XP rewards
Great post VonDondu
I only have this to add:
Planescape: Torment actualy reward geting through dialogue and finding solutions that don't involve combat (you could actualy get more XP then if you simply fight and kill someone). Also you can get quite a few increse to stats by choosing right dialogue options.
For starting abilities I will go like this:
WIS 18 (you can get remaining 7 points through conversation)
INT 15 or 16
CHA 13 (raise to 16 through conversation before you go to Ravel)
DEX 11 or 12 (put here first points)
leave STR & CON at beginig value
As for party members:
Morte: allways keep (you will have great laughs with him)
Annah: good character - you need her to switch to Thief
Grace: allways keep her - only healer available
Dakkon: good starting NPC - you need him to switch to Mage or Fighter
Ignus: can't really say - I only used him to raise my Mage abilities
Vhailor: you only need him to get both big XP and weapon at one point
Nordom: only NPC that can use ranged attack
In my opinion you should keep Morte, Annah & Grace regardless of your gameplay and remaining 2 should depend on the way you choose (Fighter/Thief/Mage).
Great post VonDondu
I only have this to add:
Planescape: Torment actualy reward geting through dialogue and finding solutions that don't involve combat (you could actualy get more XP then if you simply fight and kill someone). Also you can get quite a few increse to stats by choosing right dialogue options.
For starting abilities I will go like this:
WIS 18 (you can get remaining 7 points through conversation)
INT 15 or 16
CHA 13 (raise to 16 through conversation before you go to Ravel)
DEX 11 or 12 (put here first points)
leave STR & CON at beginig value
As for party members:
Morte: allways keep (you will have great laughs with him)
Annah: good character - you need her to switch to Thief
Grace: allways keep her - only healer available
Dakkon: good starting NPC - you need him to switch to Mage or Fighter
Ignus: can't really say - I only used him to raise my Mage abilities
Vhailor: you only need him to get both big XP and weapon at one point
Nordom: only NPC that can use ranged attack
In my opinion you should keep Morte, Annah & Grace regardless of your gameplay and remaining 2 should depend on the way you choose (Fighter/Thief/Mage).