Mysterious emails - From a friend???(SPOILERS)

trance · Post by **trance** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:47 pm

The taxi driver at the end of the game is definitly not the same taxi driver from earlier on. Not only because he has a strong accent, but also because as I recall, Jack tells you he has brought in someone to drive you around at the end of the game.

Here's my take for what it's worth: The taxi driver from the end was actually Caine. He and Jack are "friends" or something like that, this makes a bit of sense because as you learn early on, Jack has been around for a very, very long time, so it's easy to see him meeting Caine at some point. I think Caine and Jack had their eye on you from the moment you became a kindred; they somehow saw your potential (I'm sure Caine could see this kind of thing) and decided to help you realize it. That would explain why Jack goes through the trouble of helping you out at the beginning of the game and why he hesitates talking politics with you (letting you make your own assumptions). Also, remember that while Jack did hang out with the anarchs, he said that he didn't really consider himself to be an anarch, just someone who believed in the same things the anarchs did, so again you wouldn't have your decisions swayed. Then right before you leave for your final cab ride, Jack tells you that it's time to make a choice about who you're going to side with, then Caine helps you to make a final choice while in the cab. I also believe that it was Caine sending you the mysterious e-mails, as like someone said before, Jack simply doesn't seem like the mysterious e-mailing type, while Caine definitly does.

Just my 7 cents

tomataus · Post by **tomataus** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:46 pm

[QUOTE=trance] I also believe that it was Caine sending you the mysterious e-mails, as like someone said before, Jack simply doesn't seem like the mysterious e-mailing type, while Caine definitly does.[/QUOTE]

Well, I can understand the reasoning for eliminating Jack, but I haven't actually seen anything in the game (both the PC game and the table top game) to support the "Caine Theory".

Oh, and I highly doubt Jack and Caine are friends. These guys haven't even seen an Antideluvian before (heck, most Camarilla think they don't exist), much less the father of all vampires.

Off-topic question to the table top players of VtM, is Jack actually Smiling Jack the Anarch?

showoffjp · Post by **showoffjp** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:01 pm

Jack...

To reply to the whole Jack thing...
Yeah...Jack's the man...I mean, come on...he's a freakin' pirate, but yeah, I think he's Smilin' Jack, the one who the fourtun teller at the begining of the game is refering to("Why is he smiling?"). I also think that him and Caine had come across each other and become freinds, though I do know whether Jack knew he was actualy Caine or not...(When you ask Caine what he thinks of Jack, he mentions how he hasn't know him for too long...). I also think it was Caine who sent the emails...I think Caine, like Jack in a way, was sitting back the whole time watching all the events unfold, and helping to advise you at the end...I mean come on...he has to be Caine, with his old European accent, and his wierd black aura, and his knowledge of everything going on, and his little line at the end. I think it was him who sent all the emails, judging by the way the developers gave Caine an end game focus and the way he acts at the end(mysteriously, and knowing all that has happened). Cheers!

wolfehunter · Post by **wolfehunter** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:17 pm

gary's the One.

I vote on Gary as the one. Hes knows all and is all over. Hes a gamer trickster. Right Boss?

showoffjp · Post by **showoffjp** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:29 pm

It could always be that Nosferatu hacker guy(forget his name)...he seemed kind of...well..."mysterious"

wolfehunter · Post by **wolfehunter** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:50 pm

The name is Mitnick that your looking for.

Mitnick is not the one. IF you understand how the Nosferatu underground works Gary knows all. Gary keeps a tight leash on his minions. Mitnick is cracking / hacking and maintaining a network for Gary. Not paying attention to your character. Gary is aware of the hole thing. Anyhow hes the only one you don't see in the intro. Not to say he isn't there. Maybe hes just hidden? Gary is intelligent with a sophisticated understanding of knowledge. And knowledge is power. all the other characters NPC's etc are the chess peices in the game. Gary is watching the game from the outside in. Thats what I see.

Pulsar · Post by **Pulsar** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:56 am

i am pretty much sure it is jack sending all the 'friend' emails.
it pretty much fits to his character / attitude and beeing some kind of 'protective mentor' to you.
don't forget he was the one who 'introduced' you to vampire world.

pennypincher · Post by **pennypincher** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:34 pm

tomataus quoted
"Off-topic question to the table top players of VtM, is Jack actually Smiling Jack the Anarch?"

SPOILER MAYBE? SORTA!

Yep. Your good, jolly friend Jack is indeed the 6th Gen Brujah Pirate Similing Jack... At least, I remember reading he was a Brujah... Something about "tearing still beating hearts from chests in the midst of the heat of battle, and laughing"

tomataus · Post by **tomataus** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:01 pm

The Driver did it.

I firmly believe it was the driver who sent the emails, although just because he seems to know a lot of what's going on doesn't mean he's Caine. A lot of elders have a knack for digging up information.

I hypothesize he is either a) a Malkavian, or b) a True Brujah. If not, then he could be Caine.

Here are my reasons: (CAUTION: SPOILERS)

He could be Malk cuz:
a) He's not ugly but he knows too much. As Grout proves, Malks have astonishing insight on things happening around them, even though it's not as straight-forward to us sane people as it is to them. (n.b. then again he could be Nosferatu using the real Obfuscate rules to change his/her appearance)

b) The uneasy feeling vampires get since the arrival of the sarcophagus may actually have been the Malkavian Madness Network. Basically, Malks can unconciously tap into this Network and hear voices and basically eavesdrop on other Malks (or something like that). If I am not mistaken, only really old and powerful Malks can activate the network.

c) He doesn't respond with straight answers, bordering on riddling.

He could be True Brujah cuz:
a) According to Johansen (the professor), it is unusual that the sarcophagus is in pristine condition. The sarcophagus may have been touched with a discipline called Temporis, which basically tampers with time. (n.b.True Brujah had Temporis instead of Celerity which is a watered down version of Temporis)

b) I've read somewhere that if a Temporis discipline is used, the effects may actually be felt. This may have been the uneasy feeling Vamps get since the Sarcophagus's arrival.

c) Messararch supposedly lived for 250 years, but we see his corpse in the end. Which means he is not a vampire, but most probably a Ghoul of the driver. I suppose the Driver has Brujah-like qualities since he keeps on allowing, or perhaps sending his ghoul into battle during Messararch's reign. Of course, this reasoning is flawed, cuz ghouls who die after living for so long generally turn to dust. However, the game does fudge a lot of rules.

d) he seems to be aligned with the anarchs, especially Jack. And Brujah seem more prone to becoming Anarchs than other clans. Additionally,Strauss reveals (at least in the subtitles) that your sire was an anarch, which is probably why he choses to help you.

He could be Caine cuz:

a) he can theoretically do anything other vampires can do

b) Lillith (or a Lillith figure to be exact) is carved on the Sarcophagus.

c) a page from the Society of Leopold shows the sarcophagus and "Cain slaying Abel" in the same page.

On a side note that I found interesting, the driver may have also given the main character some of his blood, or forced the main character to diablerize another ancient vampire; then made him/her forget it happened. I mention this because the Tzimisce mentions in the "Hell at the Hollowbrook Hotel" mission that your blood has become stronger since your last encounter at King's Way mansion. And goes on further by asking "Doesn't it make you wonder?"
Additionally, La Croix fails to dominate you during the ending sequence.

tomataus · Post by **tomataus** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:31 pm

I retract

MAJOR SPOILER

I change my stand on the identity of the driver.
I was looking for the music files used in the game at the installation directory. I also found the voice for the characters.

The ff is in black text...

The driver is Caine. Listen to the voices in the directory <installation directory>\Vampire\sound\character\dlg\main characters\caine

I think it sucks that they should name the files so conspicously. It shatters the intrigue aspect of the game.

Fenor · Post by **Fenor** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:12 pm

[QUOTE=tomataus]MAJOR SPOILER

I change my stand on the identity of the driver.
I was looking for the music files used in the game at the installation directory. I also found the voice for the characters.

The ff is in black text...

The driver is Caine. Listen to the voices in the directory <installation directory>\Vampire\sound\character\dlg\main characters\caine

I think it sucks that they should name the files so conspicously. It shatters the intrigue aspect of the game.[/QUOTE]

old news

Brownie · Post by **Brownie** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:04 am

Caine, unlike many other elder kindred who can just twitch an eyebrow and all others around them just disappear as if they were never there, is more or less 6000 years old, the father of all vampires, in his human life he possesed inhuman powers since he was much closer than any of us to the first generation of humans upon this planet, so even mages consider him to be in some way their forefather, and right after the embrace he was already more powerful than any other kindred we can think of today, now, after 6000 years, not only his blood got stronger and stronger during his sleep, if he was awake all this time, like the theory in VtM: Bloodlines, he should have Godlike powers under his sleeve.

All supernatural creatures upon this planet believe the coming of caine to be the end of the world, so i dont know of any of you came to think of it the first time you've finished the game, but if caine truely is awake, it means the end of the world has began (whether or not it would be a fast process).

And you can eliminate the possibility of jack knowing the mysterious driver is Caine himself, other than an elder kindred who saw the end of lacroix coming this way.

And yes, i believe the emails were sent by Caine himself, and not an elder kissed by malkav.

But hey... i guess it is for Troika to know and for us to find out?

tomataus · Post by **tomataus** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:06 am

[QUOTE=Brownie]
<...snip...>
All supernatural creatures upon this planet believe the coming of caine to be the end of the world, so i dont know of any of you came to think of it the first time you've finished the game, but if caine truely is awake, it means the end of the world has began (whether or not it would be a slow or fast process).
<...snip...>
But hey... i guess it is for Troika to know and for us to find out?
[/QUOTE]
This is a bit off-topic, but since Brownie has brought it up, I might as well add something.
Actually, White Wolf has already published the long awaited series of Gehenna related Novels and RPG Books. I Guess VtM:Bloodlines is just another Gehenna outlet for them. I haven't been able to grab copies cuz they're not available where I live, but I'm pretty sure other supernaturals have different concepts for the end of the world, and that Caine is just one of the heralds of Gehenna. Some probably don't involve Caine at all.

Of course, why Troika or White Wolf decided to explicitly include Caine in VtM:Bloodlines and in a very conspicuous and unlikely manner befuddles me.
Which is why i prefer that the Driver was some other ancient Vampire.

I guess this "Email from a Friend" topic has already been exhausted and everyone agrees it was the Driver (aka Caine), because everyone else can be safely eliminated except this guy.

Wyndeward · Post by **Wyndeward** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:15 pm

[QUOTE=tomataus]This is a bit off-topic, but since Brownie has brought it up, I might as well add something.
Actually, White Wolf has already published the long awaited series of Gehenna related Novels and RPG Books. I Guess VtM:Bloodlines is just another Gehenna outlet for them. I haven't been able to grab copies cuz they're not available where I live, but I'm pretty sure other supernaturals have different concepts for the end of the world, and that Caine is just one of the heralds of Gehenna. Some probably don't involve Caine at all.

Of course, why Troika or White Wolf decided to explicitly include Caine in VtM:Bloodlines and in a very conspicuous and unlikely manner befuddles me.
Which is why i prefer that the Driver was some other ancient Vampire.

I guess this "Email from a Friend" topic has already been exhausted and everyone agrees it was the Driver (aka Caine), because everyone else can be safely eliminated except this guy.[/QUOTE]

Reading them now. They actually reference back to the game, after a fashion, or at least are in sync, plot-wise, referrencing Lacroix's death, etc.

showoffjp · Post by **showoffjp** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:12 pm

emails...

I really wish you could ahev kept all of your emails throughout the game(instead of just being able to have 10, the emails everwriting each other). Mabey someone will release a mod making your "inbox" a bit larger, being able to hold all the emails in the game, being able to refrence back to them...

showoffjp · Post by **showoffjp** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:24 am

Caine..

[QUOTE=tomataus]...everyone agrees it was the Driver (aka Caine), because everyone else can be safely eliminated except this guy.[/QUOTE]

Though I do think it's Caine sending the emails, I don't think everyone else could be eliminated as a possibility...I mean heck, it could be Jack, as he was the one who killed the prince in the first place, being one of the only ones having foreknowledge of his death...amoung other things, people, and reasons...

Maxinion · Post by **Maxinion** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:57 pm

[QUOTE=showoffjp]I really wish you could ahev kept all of your emails throughout the game(instead of just being able to have 10, the emails everwriting each other). Mabey someone will release a mod making your "inbox" a bit larger, being able to hold all the emails in the game, being able to refrence back to them...[/QUOTE]

I don't know what you mean, as I know for a fact that I have 14 emails in my inbox. The chess ones auto-delete, and that's a feature, not a bug, I believe.

showoffjp · Post by **showoffjp** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:33 pm

oh...I thought Mitnick's emails and the chess ones were just auto deleteing because of the fact i had 10 messages; strangely enough, I think that was it for me, as I could nver have any more than 10 messages at a time. Wierd...

ohemgee · Post by **ohemgee** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:03 am

[QUOTE=Brownie]Caine, unlike many other elder kindred who can just twitch an eyebrow and all others around them just disappear as if they were never there, is more or less 6000 years old, the father of all vampires, in his human life he possesed inhuman powers since he was much closer than any of us to the first generation of humans upon this planet, so even mages consider him to be in some way their forefather, and right after the embrace he was already more powerful than any other kindred we can think of today, now, after 6000 years, not only his blood got stronger and stronger during his sleep, if he was awake all this time, like the theory in VtM: Bloodlines, he should have Godlike powers under his sleeve.

All supernatural creatures upon this planet believe the coming of caine to be the end of the world, so i dont know of any of you came to think of it the first time you've finished the game, but if caine truely is awake, it means the end of the world has began (whether or not it would be a fast process).

And you can eliminate the possibility of jack knowing the mysterious driver is Caine himself, other than an elder kindred who saw the end of lacroix coming this way.

And yes, i believe the emails were sent by Caine himself, and not an elder kissed by malkav.

But hey... i guess it is for Troika to know and for us to find out?

[/QUOTE]

cain is not "more powerfull", the other vampires are weaker, everytime a vampire "create" a new vampire, the newly made vampire is weaker, thats how the thinned blood were created, they are the latest generation of vampires, really really weak, while cain, the first generation is the strongest vampire, and the first vampire of each clan were made in the 3rd generation

it cant be cain (i dont care how they named his voice) why would he disguise himself as a taxi driver, when hes the MOST POWERFULL vampire, why not simply follow u?! it wont be a problem for him, or why would he even get out of his hideout, when he could easily get some1 to do it for him, taking over some1 mind wont be a problem for him, or just get a weaker vampire to do it for him, and why would he even care about u?! hes prolly DEAD, sleeping, or hiding somewhere far away hiding cuz after living for 43242342 years, hes prolly more insane/paranoid than a malkavian(just think how many 2nd/3rd generation must have tried to kill him, to be the strongest thing ever)

it was prolly just a vampire from one of the first generations, that was really bored, and choosed u as the main character of his lil game

Hawksfire · Post by **Hawksfire** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:17 am

So, all this talk of Caine...

I've decided to stop lurking, because this talk of Caine makes me gag.

I agree, the voice being named Caine is just to mess with people. Way to metagame.

In the Gehenna book, the -reason- the world is ending is because Ravno gets owned in the face, and Caine still doesn't realize he needs to own up and -be repentant- for anything. That is, Caine doesn't take any action, so God says Vampires are off the world team.

I'm going to restate that. Caine has no direct hand in the events of the Kindred world, and so Gehenna comes.

So unless we're looking at another Gehenna plot (which is, I suppose, a reasonable argument considering the layout of the Time of Judgement books) then there is no way that the Taxi driver is actually Caine-- although he could very well be a person named Caine who happens to be -really- hateful. Check the Auspex color chart in VTM 3rd, black just means hateful (or diablerie, but unless you subscribe to the Abel is 0 Generation vampire theory, Caine's not a diablerist). So, yea. I can't possibly buy that the taxi fellow is really Caine unless this is a terrible alternate Gehenna plot.
-Genghis