amn versus baldur's gate...

Meerlight · Post by **Meerlight** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 12:17 pm

Nashkell belongs to Amn and it took about 2 days journey to get from Nashkell to Baldur's Gate. Thats not exactly a far away war...

Amn would completely obliterate Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate does have a lot of money OTOH and could hire a bunch of Flaming Fist...

Path of Wind · Post by **Path of Wind** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 12:55 pm

I still think the conflict between SC and Amn would become Mage wars. And I am sure, there would be so many mages in Faerun who would oppose the possibility of yet another piece of land to be under Cowled Wizards, that the CowWiz phrase: "Our numbers are many, you will be overwhelmed!", would stop to be true. They would be overwhelmed.
Besides, somehow I believe even many Mages living in Amn would help SC and BG. Talk to people in the city, many of them appear not to like Cow Wizzies. I think even Edwin would go against them.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 12:58 pm

Amn would win, the conversations in BG tells you that.

May I point out to one of the guys above, that Nashkel is part of Amn, thus Amn wouldn't be kicking the butt of Nashkel

England lost the revolution because of inept handling. It expected the loyalists present to crush the rebellion, and by the time they noticed this wasn't going to happen, France had taken a hand in blocking vital supplies and troops.

Thus were the colonies lost.

ColinK · Post by **ColinK** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 1:03 pm

These mages in Amn, may or may not help in a war remember they are only normal civilians except that they are mages and that they are not in the employ of the Amnish army or Cowled Wizards most likely they'll stay out of it unless they put up some recruitment posters up asking for mages.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 1:07 pm

I think if there was a war between Amn and Sword Coast, the armies of both sides would meet in Nashkel...

There they would come up against Nimbul. They would all fire arrows at him but no one would be able to hit him, and they would eventually use all their arrows up...

Then Noober would start asking all the soldiers a million questions, and they wouldn't be able to fight because dialogue screens would keep interrupting the battle.

And thus would the war come to naught.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 3:45 pm

Sword Coast is all the land from Candlekeep to Waterdeep, i believe. Now if Baldur's Gate went to war, Waterdeep may help them because they're allies. Likewise Calisham seeing that its rival Waterdeepwas aiding Baldur's Gate would help Amn. Then you would have a titanic battle going on. The cowled wizards and shadow thieves would stay out of it unless paid. The harpers would try to stop it, and the Zhents and Red Wizards would try to take over Waterdeep while its army is away. Then teh armies of SilveryMoon and teh elven armies would aid Waterdeep. Tethyr would have its civil war and stay out of it. The kingdoms of the Inner Sea would stay out of it. Iraebor would probably join Bg. So we would be having a titanic war on our hands.

Thats my opinion.
Anyway Amn being a country would proabably win.

Word · Post by **Word** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:29 pm

Britain lost to farmers across the ocean because they were bankrupt, supporting 3 other wars in Europe, and they had to sail soliders 3,000 miles in order to lay warfare. The Cowled Wizards don't seem to obey the goverment much and since when did the shadow thieves all they do with gov. officals is bribe them. Baldur's Gate is surrounded by wilderness and by being locals would have an advantage their. But Amn is lager and would an advantage in its size. It would all depend on the armies leaders and luck. But I think Amn would win.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 7:24 pm

Originally posted by Underdog:
Just curious Xyz, what are you basing that on? Do you actually have the stats for an Athkatla mercenary and every person in Baldur's Gate or is that just your opinion?

Opinion, though largely formed on the basis of experience and observation. There are no level 18 characters in Baldur's Gate. There are plenty in Athkatla.

Oh, and it's Xyx...

Path of Wind · Post by **Path of Wind** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 7:33 pm

Actually, I think the conflict between SC and Amn would come down to the match between Noober and Neeber. No one else would be able to put even word between them. Man, I would like to see that conversation!

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 11:51 pm

Originally posted by Xyx:
Opinion, though largely formed on the basis of experience and observation. There are no level 18 characters in Baldur's Gate. There are plenty in Athkatla.

Duke Eltan was level 16, which is pretty close to 18.

The level discrepancy is weird yes, but logically we know that the designers just jacked up the difficulty to keep us entertained. Realistically the levels should be much closer.

On the Revolutionary War: PBS has run some excellent programs detailing the conflict. Like all wars, there were many factors affecting both sides, not to mention the fact that historically many of Britain’s generals have possessed a talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. But you have to give the colonial soldiers their due for picking up sword and rifle for the cause.

Here's a thought. What if Sarevok hadn’t been defeated? Let’s assume for a minute that the PC didn’t have access to the reload feature and was killed sometime before exposing Sarevok’s scheme. As a Duke of Baldur’s Gate with support from the Chill, Black Talons, and the Iron Throne, how would the Sword Coast fare under his direction? With an army like that Sarevok would have been in a position to challenge not only Amn but the Five themselves.

[ 08-18-2001: Message edited by: Kayless ]

Dead Frog · Post by **Dead Frog** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 6:23 am

Yes, Sarevok would have had a big army if he had succeded. However he wouldn't have concured much of the world because he didn't want to.

He would pourposly have lead his troopers stupidly against Amn as to maximize the number of casulties on both sides, and then he would have leaned back and waited for his ascention as the carnage continued and the chaos spread.
Casulties would probably be high enough to destabilize the entire region, and Sarevok would probably just be happy as bands of marouders started to prey on the fleeing civilians. Unless he could shed more blood by sending troopers to kill the marouders of course...

In the end most of the Sword cost and Amn would probably be reduced to ruins, and Sarevok would either become a god or be killed - somebody was bound to find out about his involvement, and if his plan didn't work he would be a prime target for assassins and people wanting revenge.

At least that is how I see it... :

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:39 am

As i see it Baldurs gate is a very defendable city due to it's inner wall, which creates 2 walls with which they could take out a large amount of Amn's soldiers (with seige tactics) while they try to breach both. Amn would struggle to obliterate the armies of Baldurs gate in a seige situation.

They would also be able to supply their city using the water, they are in almost a perfect position, after all Amn has no water based fleet to speak of, baldurs gate would be able to use the water to huge advantage.

Blackrose · Post by **Blackrose** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 10:59 am

Are we talking about the year 1370 DR? If so, I would go for Baldur's Gate because AFAIK Amn is already fighting a war on two fronts. There is the conflict in Maztica and then there is the business in Riatavin & Trailstone (I believe Tethyr is also backing Riatavin/Trailstone). With so much distraction and resource drain to fund the various wars, the Flaming Fist has a good chance to invade and capture nashkel mines & Athkatla.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 11:51 am

Like i said the war would be between the empires of the south and the grand cities of the north.

wolven86 · Post by **wolven86** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 2:43 pm

sorry to point out my ignorance but i have never played PnP so i have no clue about most of the history and lands around BG etc

so i foyu could tell me where i could find this info online i would be grateful

Raphtyr · Post by **Raphtyr** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 4:06 pm

Sarevok woulsn't have had the support of the Iron Throne.
Emissary Tar was at the headquarters of the Iron Throne in Baldur's Gate to reprimand Sarevok for tempting war with Amn.
The Throne would have condemned Sarevok, not supported him.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Aug 18, 2001 6:09 pm

The side with the most spellcasters will probably win. Mages must be deciding in warfare.

Numbers don't mean much when you have area spells. One Death Spell takes out half a regiment. Stuff like Defensive Harmony and Haste really shines when used on armies.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sun Aug 19, 2001 8:02 pm

Amn defiently has more spellcasters. Even if Amn can't get the support from some of its other cities, Athkatala could defeat Baldur's Gate by it self. Although leaders from both sides would be assasniated by teh shadow thieves because those guys have bases in both cities.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Sun Aug 19, 2001 9:52 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep:
As i see it Baldurs gate is a very defendable city due to it's inner wall, which creates 2 walls with which they could take out a large amount of Amn's soldiers (with seige tactics) while they try to breach both. Amn would struggle to obliterate the armies of Baldurs gate in a seige situation.

They would also be able to supply their city using the water, they are in almost a perfect position, after all Amn has no water based fleet to speak of, baldurs gate would be able to use the water to huge advantage.

This is a very good point. If a siege was laid against Baldur's Gate, it would be impossible to succeed without a navy to block the ports. But, i wonder if it would have come down to a siege. I would think that the front lines would be somewhere near nashkel.

Are we talking about the year 1370 DR? If so, I would go for Baldur's Gate because AFAIK Amn is already fighting a war on two fronts. There is the conflict in Maztica and then there is the business in Riatavin & Trailstone (I believe Tethyr is also backing Riatavin/Trailstone). With so much distraction and resource drain to fund the various wars, the Flaming Fist has a good chance to invade and capture nashkel mines & Athkatla.

Isn't the Sythsyllian (something like that) Army waging war somewhere to the south of Athkatla...where exactly is that goin down? The criers kept telling tales of armies of orcs and giants and ogres laying wasting to everything they came upon. I was seriously hoping that would come into play in the expansion.

[ 08-19-2001: Message edited by: average joe ]

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 6:31 am

Originally posted by Raphtyr:
Sarevok woulsn't have had the support of the Iron Throne.
Emissary Tar was at the headquarters of the Iron Throne in Baldur's Gate to reprimand Sarevok for tempting war with Amn.
The Throne would have condemned Sarevok, not supported him.

I forgot about that part. Scratch the support of the Iron Throne.

Even so, Sarevok would still have been damned powerful. And I wouldn't want to be the Shadow Thief assassin that tried to kill him. Just think about it: All of his ToB abilities (deathbringer assault, stunning) combined with his hyper-resistant armor (100% resist to fire, electricity, cold, acid, magic, 50% to all types of physical attacks). It's a good thing Sarevok was defeated when he was. If he had just a little more time, he might have become the new Lord of Murder!

Getting back to the subject at hand. The Gate is much more siege worthy than Athkatla. But as Joe pointed out, the battle would likely take place somewhere in between. It'll be a bad day for the people of Nashkel when two armies collide on their doorstep.