Couple Questions regarding dual classing, along with others.

[Musashi Miyamoto]

I have a couple of question regarding dual classing.

First question is about the Kenshi/Mage (I know this is popular topic but its one question) I'm wondering if its good idea to dual at 13? because i heard it got some extra speed, or attack rateing however you would call it.

Second question is regarding an dual classing that i am thinking of trying, an Kenshi/Priest, is this workable. The Priest has several spells that kind of copy the mage's tensior (sp) Transformation, like Righteous Magic along with others? Or should i be better off dualing an Bersker to an priest at some level like 9 or 12,13??

What's the requirement to dual from an fighter into an Priest and what level would you recommend?

I have many more questions that i can't remmber right now but FYI I have ToB.

Oh almost forget to say hi i'm new here, though i have been lurking for a bit and i have readen varrious thread like the Idiot vs brainners, and others. All i can say is i enjoy reading those threads they give me interesting ideas for stuff i can try, too bad BGII don't support dueling then we could truely have some interesting battles. I'm trying to make an MP game for my group, two PC characters and the rest is NPC, I really enjoy some NPC's like Jan, he's not that great combat wise, but decent thief/mage but i keep him for those hiarious stories.

Eeep better shutup before i wear the welcome mat thin

-Musashi Miyamoto

(oh yeah! just rembered a couple of my additional questions *hears the group groan*)

What kind of weapon should the Kenshi spec in, i'm thinking staffs, going all the way to grandmastery because the mage is going to use the mage staff and the other decent to good staffs in the game. Do you retain all the stars u put in stuff like grandmastery in staffs, etc after u reactive your first class??

Secondly what would be the best weapon specalize for the Priest i'm thinking War hammer for the rune hammer i think, and fails for the 5 head Fail, oh yeah Age *something, something* the one with acid, fire, cold, posion, and electrical damage.

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Musashi Miyamoto ]

[polaris]

Musashi Miyamoto,

The Kensai/Mu and Kensai/Cleric are simply different. If I had to pick one over the other from a pure power-gaming PoV, then my vote goes with the Kensai/Mu?

Why? In BG, magic users have been given a lot of spells that are quick and easy to cast so they can *survive* a big brutal fighter that wants to swing at them with a zweihander. However, the same spells that give a mage a fighting chance in combat, turns anyone *with* fighting ability (the Kensai/Mu) into a death machine. [There are many long threads and citations that back me up....which I won't go into now....try search 'Kensai/Mage'.]

The Clerical class, OTOH doesn't have anything like stoneskins or other really good buffing spells, so the Kensai/Cleric while potent is IMO just not in the same class as the Kensai/Mu.

Now, when should you dual?

There are two schools of though on this, each with their own strengths and weaknesses:

1. Dual at level 9. Rational: The Kensai when evaluately strictly as a fighter kit is fairly weak. His total inability to wear armor will quickly become a liability at higher levels....so the faster you can get him some extra protection (magic) the better. In addition, you will only need 250,000 XP to reactivate the Kensai class if you dual this early (this is IMPORTANT because until the Kensai is reactivated, you are a low level mage that CAN'T use bracers....*ouch*). 250,000 is quite doable in chapter 2 and keeps your weak period to a minimum. Finally, you will give your full fighter hit-points AND you get your Kensai ability level breaks all at level nine which makes this a natural place to dual.

Advantages: Short period of time when weak (both as a single classed kensai and a straight mage). In addition, get the the Kensai break-point for abilities AND full fighter hit-dice.

Disadvantages: You will be stuck at an anemic 2 attacks per round for the rest of the game (assuming weapon specialization). In addition, your base thaco will be 12 for the rest of the game so eventually other fighers will leave you far behind in ToB.

2. Dual at level 13. Rational: The Kensai part of your class will have to do your basic fighting for the rest of the game, so you *need* to be as good a fighter as reasonably possible before you dual. By waiting until 13th level, you not *only* gain one more extra level of kensai abilities, but you *also* get an extra 1/2 attack. In addition, in ToB, you will only be a few levels behind what you would have been as a straight mage, and far more powerful.

Advantages: You will have a MUCH better THACO and base THACO (base thaco will be 7...a huge improvement, and your thaco will be 0 BEFORE you subtract your strength modifiers or even beter). In addition, (assuming specialization), you will have 3 attacks per round for the rest of the game.

Disadvantages: It takes too long. You need about 1.3 million XP to make 13th level Kensai (*well* into chapter 2) and 1.5 million *more* to reaactivate it (which means you are a weak mage going though the underdark....*not* a great idea). You will only reactivate both abilties (in a party of 6) late chapter 6 or early chapter 2 (total XP of 2.8 million). Even then you will be a *weak* mage facing Irenicus (even Imoen will be stronger) but you will have both classes active which should make up for that.

Here is my take/opinion: If you are playing with a party of 6, dual at level 9. If you are going solo or near solo, THEN you can *try* the level 13 route.


Finally what weapons? I recommend the following (others may differ):

1. (When single classed Kensai): Get grandmastery in T-H swords and two ranks in T-Weapon style. [You should get both just when you hit level nine.] Why? In a word: Lilacor. Lilacor has some immunities (vs confusion and charm esp) that will *save* your hide....and he is one of the few +3 weapons available to any character early on. Let me tell you from my experience that a Kensai early in SoA weilding Lilacor is scary.

When you go mage, get DARTS and Staff. When your Kensai reactivates, pump slots into staff. By the end of the game, you will have grandmastery in staff as well. This is great when facing mellisan to have BOTH the Staff of the Magi and Staff of the Ram in your ready weapon slots.....and being able to use the Psion blade as backup isn't bad either (or any of the other powerful 2-H swords).

-Polaris

P.S. Your milage may vary. This is just my opinion based on my experiences.

[Musashi Miyamoto]

Thanks That helped quite a bit

Now regarding Cleric What would be the best option regarding them, i want to make a party of maybe 2 or 3 tops, me Mu as the Kenshi/mage, then the second one an Cleric straigh or dual class or what? Finaly the third one probably will be a fighter/thief so the thief can get the better thac0 of the fighter, and later with use all item ability the thief should be able to be quite good esp with T-H swords, like the (You better pray to your god sword ) Holly advenger i belive (bad at rembering names of weapons ahh well. I'm thinking on the cleric having it double wield war hammer and fails. The fighter that duals to cleric probably will be a Berserker, or alterativly i could get rid of the cleric and get keldon.

[polaris]

For a cleric, I would say that you have three good choices:

Flail (Flail of Ages is simply *awesome* especially once you get all five heads by the end of ToB).

War-Hammer: Crom-Faeyr. 'Nuff Said.

In addition, I would seriously look into getting three slots into Two Weapon Style so you can weild both at once. It is cheesy as hell, but a dual wielding cleric with FoA in one hand and Crom Faeyr (and thus a 25 strength) in the other is simply.....scary....


Have fun

-Polaris

[polaris]

Too late....can't count

Your third great choice is the mace. You will be able to use the Mace of Disruption in SoA (great against vampires and has negative plane prot) and you eventually will be able to use the storm star.

-Polaris

[TecnoPaladin]

To answer one of the questions asked, I'd have to say Kensai/Mage would be a better dual than Kensai/Cleric, simply because you will not be limited in your weapon choices if you are a K/Mu, whereas you will be restricted as a K/Cleric. In addition, when both are activated, I believe you still cannot wear armor.

One of the strengths of the K/Mu combo is that Kensais and Mages share the same basic restriction (no armor), and can fully use the benefits of both (still cast spells all the time since you're not wearing armor but get some nice Kensai bonuses to AC, and can still use all the Kensai weapons).

The K/Cleric combo is almost the opposite... you have -different- restrictions and the restrictions kill you in -both- directions - one of the strongest assets of a cleric is to be able to wear powerful armor while casting spells - but a K/Cleric can't. And a Kensai strength is the ability to use any weapon - but a K/Cleric can't.

[KaaZe]

If you want to dual a cleric, a beserker/fighter would be better and you get rage ability.

[Craig]

Berserker/druid maybe
Welcome to the board

[jeremiah]

Berserker/clerics are great. They are also a bit easier to solo level to 13 before dualling.

You refuse to tithe to my deity RAARRGH!! LOL.

[Musashi Miyamoto]

Yeah i rember the armor restriction, and i'm thinking of useing a berserker dualed to clec later on, sure he'll not be as powerful as a kenshi/mage but with the clec spells he probably could do some sevre punishment. or maybe a bersker/druid for the iron skin.

[Musashi Miyamoto]

IYO (in your opion (sp)) which would be better, dualing to an clerc or an druid? the Druid gets the iron skin along with some nice elemental summoning spells but the clerc gets much more spells.

[Meerlight]

For a really over powered party of 3 try this...
1 Kensai/mage - dual whenever
1 ranger/cleric - all priest spells + already have 2* in 2-weapon style
1 Kensai/thief - In ToB the use any item ability is killer... Dual him late! like lvl 21 kensai

this party may be incredibly weak if you dual all of them at once. so don't do that.
IMHO those are the 3 best characters in the game.

[Musashi Miyamoto]

Hmm i'll try that.

hmm what is the requirement to dual from an ranger to an clerc? and it seems that only regular or beastmaster can dual the archer, or stalker can't, stupid i think, i have TOB btw.

Secondly what's the req to dual to a thief from an kenshi?

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Musashi Miyamoto ]

[Meerlight]

To dual a thief from kensai you just need above 15 strength and above 16 dex.(i suggest higher stats however)

to dual ranger (i suggest vanilla ranger) to cleric you need strength 15, wisdom 17 and constitution 15. Maybe a dex requirement too?
just give him 16 strength (enhance with Crom!) 18 con, 18 wis, and high dex too.

One good thing about ranger/cleric is that you get druid and priest spells and an easier experience tree than Druids!

[Falanen]

Just 16 dex? Don't you need a 17 dex to dual to a thief? My understanding is 15 in prime requisite of class dualling from, and 17 in prime requisite of class dualling to.

[Xyx]

Always go for 18 Dex. That extra point of AC is one of the best bargains you can get for a single stat point.

[Musashi Miyamoto]

When should i dual my ranger into an clerc, the second i enter the game?

[Xyx]

From what I hear, minimum level 8 to get Druid spells.

Level 9 to get the best Hit Points.

Level 13 if you want the best number of attacks (but you will only regain Ranger abilities near the end of SoA).

[jeremiah]

Originally posted by Musashi Miyamoto:
<STRONG>When should i dual my ranger into an clerc, the second i enter the game?</STRONG>

Level 13 if you have ToB

Cleric experience table is only second to rogues in fast rate of levelling.

[Musashi Miyamoto]

Thx, there maybe be hope for my ranger, he's level 12, kenshi is level 11 so both of them are almost to dualing point, it will be hard with two dualing, but i got massive and i mean utterly massive amount of scrolls saved up, you won't believe how many scrolls i got saved up so far, i'll say about 80+ more like 90 scrolls all the way from 1-7's haven't goten 8's or 9's yet