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What would you wish on Baldurs Gate 3?

This forum is to be used for any discussion pertaining to Black Isle Studios' cancelled Baldur's Gate III: The Black Hound project or speculation over the possibility that Atari will eventually have a true sequel developed.
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Snoon
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Post by Snoon »

Here's another suggestion: How about not disappointing your players by giving almost every enemy mage powers that your own party members will never get?

Nearly every enemy mage that I encountered had all of these cool spell triggers and contingencies, and I kept thinking "I can't wait until my mages can do that. It will be fun to play around with different contingency and trigger combinations." But alas, it was not to be. I completed the game without access to chain contingency and timestop (except via scrolls), and I think that my mages had almost hit the EXP cap, so I doubt that such spells were attainable without removing the exp cap. It was quite a disappointment. I would have much rather have been challenged by increasing the number of enemy mages that I had to face, or giving them better fighter support, rather than by having them tease me by weilding magics that my own characters will never get.

This brings me to my next point: Why have experience caps? Unrealistic and silly, if you ask me. If an enemy spellcaster can reach X level, then why can't my own? There has not been many places in the Baldur's Gate series where monsters will respawn, so it's not like a player can go "power-levelling" anyways. I suppose that a case could be made for soloers, but come on, this isn't Diablo! The game was meant to be played with a party, and I see no reason why the gaming experience should be degraded for those of us who like to play the game how it was originally intended, for the sake of a handful of people who don't like to utilize the available resource of NPCs. Besides, better fighter support for enemy mages would likely offset the benefits a solo player would gain through having a character that is double the level that a PC in a party would be, since there are no saving throws vs melee attacks. :)

By the way, am I the only one who found it quite odd, the high number of powerful archmages in BG2 that were employed as common thugs? I would think that such powerful mages would rather spend their time persuing knowledge, than working as door guards or goons for criminal organizations.
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fable
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Post by fable »

Nearly every enemy mage that I encountered had all of these cool spell triggers and contingencies, and I kept thinking "I can't wait until my mages can do that. It will be fun to play around with different contingency and trigger combinations." But alas, it was not to be. I completed the game without access to chain contingency and timestop (except via scrolls), and I think that my mages had almost hit the EXP cap, so I doubt that such spells were attainable without removing the exp cap.

I'm not sure why you had this problem, but you should ask about it in the BG2/SoA forum. All of us have used contingencies from fairly early in the game, and some have produced remarkable contingency combinations that can take down gods. That's without removing any experience cap.
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Post by DarkAngel »

It would be cool if you playd drizzt in bg3. and how he became a adventurer,his story .ect.
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Post by DarkApos »

how about a really good Assassin character. like good enough for a solo effort.
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Post by DarkAngel »

it would be cool if you could fight the tarasque in bg3.
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Snoon
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Post by Snoon »

[QUOTE=fable]Nearly every enemy mage that I encountered had all of these cool spell triggers and contingencies, and I kept thinking "I can't wait until my mages can do that. It will be fun to play around with different contingency and trigger combinations." But alas, it was not to be. I completed the game without access to chain contingency and timestop (except via scrolls), and I think that my mages had almost hit the EXP cap, so I doubt that such spells were attainable without removing the exp cap.

I'm not sure why you had this problem, but you should ask about it in the BG2/SoA forum. All of us have used contingencies from fairly early in the game, and some have produced remarkable contingency combinations that can take down gods. That's without removing any experience cap.[/QUOTE]

Well, if I was wrong, then I apologize. I didn't think that those spells were available except through the use of scrolls (except contingency).
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Post by Snoon »

[QUOTE=DarkAngel]It would be cool if you playd drizzt in bg3. and how he became a adventurer,his story .ect.[/QUOTE]

But doesn't Drizzt have his own story, separate from the BG story? He just makes cameo appearances in the BG series.

It may not be such a bad idea for a different game, though I think that most people would like more choice in what their player character is like.
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Post by Snoon »

[QUOTE=DarkApos]how about a really good Assassin character. like good enough for a solo effort.[/QUOTE]

You know, I wouldn't mind if the thief classes could fight a bit better. I would think that the adventuring types of thieves do plenty of fighting, and could become almost as good with weapons as fighters. Their armour restrictions are because their profession requires them to move around quickly, but such quick movement would also make them good fighters, I'd think. 1 attack/round with most melee weapons is quite pathetic; Thieves are supposed to be quick and nimble, so why can't they attack more quickly? I think that the armour restrictions placed upon them is enough to counterbalance the fact that they have abilities that fighters lack. Also, I don't see why it's ok for them to use a 5 foot long shortbow, and yet they can't use a heavy crossbow due to its size. Isn't a 5 foot long bow more cumbersome than a heavy crossbow? As it stands now, I feel that it's pretty much a waste of a party slot to have a single-classed thief there. Having someone like Jan or Imoen who could cast spells when not detecting traps seemed to be a lot more beneficial, overall.
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Post by Luis Antonio »

Well, first, can you guys try to keep your full answers in a single post? double/triple posts sequences are a bit strange... aye? Just edit your posts. ;)

Well, concerning the classes for solo, every and all classes may be soloed on SoA, so I guess that if the game makers keep with D&D 2Ed (wich I doubt, they'll prolly use 3rd or another edition) the classes could be the same as in BG2, of course with more classes. The rogues, for example, are really deadly machines in SoA, depending on how you use them. With a bit of cheese they are just unstopable. And multiclassing a mage and a thief is sometimes better than multiclassing a fighter mage, if you are a good backstab user.

So, I think they could keep the same classes, but I agree with you guys regarding the need for a solo option for the game. To chose wether to be with a party or not is important, and really challenging for those who are already long-time players.
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Post by whitefor »

Please NO 3D

Just stumbled across this forum for Baldurs Gate 3.

I have been waiting for this series to be resurrected. I am really tired of the thousands of AD&D role playing games that think 3D graphics is the future.

To me the graphic details of the original Baldurs Gate series was way better than any of the 3D games. Who cares that I can get a 360 degree view of what's going on.

The BIGGEST requirement to me is to have a great plot !!! Spend more time on plot and story line than on the fancy 3D graphics and you'll have a winner. I remember actually feeling sad once I finished with BG II.

Not sure if there are any developers on this forum but I am hoping for a return to the things that made the original Baldurs Gate games GREAT!
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Post by Aegis »

[QUOTE=whitefor]Just stumbled across this forum for Baldurs Gate 3.

I have been waiting for this series to be resurrected. I am really tired of the thousands of AD&D role playing games that think 3D graphics is the future.

To me the graphic details of the original Baldurs Gate series was way better than any of the 3D games. Who cares that I can get a 360 degree view of what's going on.

The BIGGEST requirement to me is to have a great plot !!! Spend more time on plot and story line than on the fancy 3D graphics and you'll have a winner. I remember actually feeling sad once I finished with BG II.

Not sure if there are any developers on this forum but I am hoping for a return to the things that made the original Baldurs Gate games GREAT![/QUOTE]And here I thought we were through with this debate :rolleyes:

It was hardly the graphics that made Baldur's Gate/SoA/ToB/PS:T and on and on, great. It was the fact that the story and game play was good. For the time, the Infinity Engine was, in all actuallity, a damn advanced engine, one that was able to handle the graphics of the time, as well as the serious number crunching required in a Dungeons and Dragons game. A switch to 3D, as many people choose not to believe, will not kill the game. What will kill the game (aside from the munchkin like 3.5 ed. rules... God how I hate them) will be poor design decisions, focus on the action aspect that seems so popular in CRPG's, and the idea that difficulty means throwing 20 Balors the PC's way. 3D graphics, though, are hardly the anti-christ of computer games, as their are many, many games which combine amazing graphics, with good story (well, passable story).
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Post by The Z »

[QUOTE=Aegis]
It was hardly the graphics that made Baldur's Gate/SoA/ToB/PS:T and on and on, great. It was the fact that the story and game play was good. For the time, the Infinity Engine was, in all actuallity, a damn advanced engine, one that was able to handle the graphics of the time, as well as the serious number crunching required in a Dungeons and Dragons game. A switch to 3D, as many people choose not to believe, will not kill the game. What will kill the game (aside from the munchkin like 3.5 ed. rules... God how I hate them) will be poor design decisions, focus on the action aspect that seems so popular in CRPG's, and the idea that difficulty means throwing 20 Balors the PC's way. 3D graphics, though, are hardly the anti-christ of computer games, as their are many, many games which combine amazing graphics, with good story (well, passable story).[/QUOTE]

I agree with these sentiments. In order for a BG3 to be entertaining (IMO) it will need to rekindle the storytelling of the original. On top of that, it could easily improve if PS:T/KotOR-like NPC dialogs (where you can actually talk to them on your own) and a much better "evil" system were integrated. IIRC BG was heavily on the 'light' side, where there was way too much focus on being a force of good and hardly any emphasis on being evil.

My favourite examples of games that combines graphics and story are System Shock 2 (which had pretty good graphics for the time) and its spinoff, Deus Ex. Both were non-linear (gameplay wise but not so much story wise) and offered a good blend of an intense plot with action-packed gameplay.
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Post by The Great Hairy »

System Shock 2 knocked my socks off (and scared me blonde for months) but I don't think SS2 or Deus Ex had enough of a free-wheeling plot.

One of the main points I liked about BG2 was the fact that, apart from some quests, you could wander all over the place and complete quests at your leisure. I would hope BG3 would be similar. Maybe not Morrowind similar (probably too open-ended for a BG game) but certainly more open than the FPS/CRPG hybirds.

There definitely should be the "I want to play an evil, evil nostril-picker" option. The more evil the better.

And I would certainly hope that any and all "action game" elements were removed, and whoever suggested putting them in fed to the wild llamas. NWN suffers badly for having this!

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Post by Snoon »

I like the top-down view, you can see more and it is more tactical, though I suppose that it is less realistic. Not a big deal to me.

One thing I like about BG2 is an unrealistic graphical effect. It's nice when you kill an enemy with a strong hit and they explode. It really gives the feeling that you are utterly crushing your opponents. "Owned." I doubt that we will see this if BG3's graphics are more 3-dimensional. I am sure that the developers will want it to have a more realistic feel. But how about some decapitations? Like that axe in ToB whose description says that each hit has a chance to decapitate an enemy. Really? Let's see the heads roll then! It would be really cool if when you make a critical hit that kills an enemy, their head comes off and goes rolling, or you hit their jugular, or something like that. I can't see this happening with a dragon though, but how about impaling it with a spear/sword? Also, if you have giant strength due to spells, potions or wearable items, how about some creative attacks? Ram your weapon into them, pick them up on it and fling them into the wall? If you've really got giant strength, then use it!
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Post by DarkAngel »

yes i agree completly! more realistic figths.
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Post by freak4jesus »

Same AD&D rules (2nd edition).- they'd probably get something more recent
NPC's with relationships.-there was Jaheira & Khaleid and if you have Aerie and Hear'Dalis in your party and you reject Aerie then she begins a relationship with Haer'Dalis
Possibilities of soloing the game.-I think the game is programmed so that you need a party if you want to solo then just send everyone away from your group
At least mention of every Child of Bhalls companions and perhaps mentioning some of the most famous mods (like, someone asking you if have you heard about Pontifex, or telling the tale of Chloe or something)-not sure any of the others had companions
More Races (Drow, please)- you can play more races in Icewind Dale 2 such as drow and duergar and svirfneblin there're more
More Classes (perhaps even from the mods. Man, them modders must win something after all)-Yea, maybe even prestige classes like the Dragon Disciple I for one want to see sorcerors like in Icewind Dale 2
DECENT HISTORYLINE not that ToB kill your brothers amen thing.- yea it would be nice for a good historyline more detailed then what's told in the cinemtics
I also want to see more realistic fights and the possibility of switching sides ie Icewind Dale 2 I so wish I could try working for Isair and Madae
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Post by Leafar »

as long as it doesn't get to be like Never winter nights....ugh


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Post by penguin_16 »

More Options!!!

More options is what I want.

How about including fort building, magic weapon making, prestige classes? Combine that with a good stoyline and the same rules and you'd have a brilliant game.
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Post by Faerun »

fable wrote:For the love of god make good items hard to get, again unlike in BG2 where you can buy all the good items from your first citty or find them in the second chapter ( celestial fury, carsomyr, bonus cd merchants, ribalds shop, 2 dragons to fight for items and dragon armors, plus a LOAD of magical items to sell for money or use to complement the ones you have, need i go on? ) , again this was a huge disapointment for in BG2.

Very good idea, but I can't see it happening anytime, soon. The publishers (and frequently, the developers) of these games believe their audiences are comprised of 10-15 year old males. (I'm not making this up. I've spoken to several company reps who claim they've got sold research to back this conclusion.) These "kids" (supposedly) don't want a challenge, only the best weapons to do the most damage. This perhaps explains why incredible weapons were lying around everywhere in KotoR, which was even worse in that respect than BG2.

Exactly, but the reason I, and I think a lot of others, love the BG series to this day is because they are not part of this modern mould of dumbed down games. So for BG III to be the first to be tailored for the kiddie crowd (I call it that even though I know a lot of them aren't kids) would be a huge letdown.

I was disappointed in BG 2's ridiculously powerful items and at how common they were, but the dumbing down didn't progress beyond that and I really hope it doesn't do so in BG III.

As for what I'd like in BG III:

- More dynamic NPC reactions and interactions, romances etc.

- Keep the tradition alive with infinity engine style camera view. No 3D camera toggling PLEASE!

- Great storyline. It just wouldn't be worthy of the name without one. Doesn't have to be related to anything from the previous games. Although getting some tidbits of the bhaalspawn saga in there just for fun would be cool.

- More customizable character appearance: cloaks show up on your avatar etc.

- Travel in the wilderness BG 1 style.
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Post by Pellinore »

As for what I'd like in BG III:

- More dynamic NPC reactions and interactions, romances etc.

- Keep the tradition alive with infinity engine style camera view. No 3D camera toggling PLEASE!

- Great storyline. It just wouldn't be worthy of the name without one. Doesn't have to be related to anything from the previous games. Although getting some tidbits of the bhaalspawn saga in there just for fun would be cool.

- More customizable character appearance: cloaks show up on your avatar etc.

- Travel in the wilderness BG 1 style.
I agree heartily. The story and characters made BG I & II. Not the effects or combat...these were great but the story and characters were the best.
I would also like to have more fear for the character, after a few levels you start to lose the fear of your characters safety. More character interaction and more consequence for your actions would be nice. More classes and keep 2nd edition rules (but I know they won't).
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