Ugh, that never occurred to me - doesn't being a sorceror -severely- limit the number of HLA's you can get? Or do you get all the HLA's as additional spells above and beyond the set number of 9th level ones you can learn?
Qwinn
Valygar or Minsc?
Be aware that there are differences of opinion about which spells a Sorcerer should pick. For example, I don't give my Sorcerer spells that she could cast with a wand, such as Fireball and Cloudkill, and I like to use Spell Trigger and Chain Contingency. Here are my picks:
1st Level: Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Spook, Burning Hands
2nd Level: Mirror Image, Resist Fear, Glitterdust, Vocalize
3rd Level: Melf's Minute Meteors, Skull Trap, Flame Arrow, Remove Magic
4th Level: Stoneskin, Emotion, Greater Malison, Improved Invisibility (or Secret Word)
5th Level: Breach, Spell Immunity, Lower Resistance, Animate Dead
6th Level: True Sight, Mislead, Improved Haste, Death Spell
7th Level: Project Image, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Mass Invisibility, Mordenkainen's Sword
8th Level: Spell Trigger, Simulacrum, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Power Word: Blind
9th Level: Chain Contingency, Time Stop, Imprisonment, Shapechange
My selection might vary depending upon the abilities and spells of my other party members. I put a lot of emphasis on teamwork, and that affects my strategies.
1st Level: Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Spook, Burning Hands
2nd Level: Mirror Image, Resist Fear, Glitterdust, Vocalize
3rd Level: Melf's Minute Meteors, Skull Trap, Flame Arrow, Remove Magic
4th Level: Stoneskin, Emotion, Greater Malison, Improved Invisibility (or Secret Word)
5th Level: Breach, Spell Immunity, Lower Resistance, Animate Dead
6th Level: True Sight, Mislead, Improved Haste, Death Spell
7th Level: Project Image, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Mass Invisibility, Mordenkainen's Sword
8th Level: Spell Trigger, Simulacrum, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Power Word: Blind
9th Level: Chain Contingency, Time Stop, Imprisonment, Shapechange
My selection might vary depending upon the abilities and spells of my other party members. I put a lot of emphasis on teamwork, and that affects my strategies.
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dragon wench
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You could also consider one of the NPC mods as a sixth character. When I last played the game there were 4 out there, two tank-like characters (Chloe and Solaufein) and two sorcerors (Kelsey and Tashia); there might be more now. They are all slightly overpowered, except Kelsey, but that can be easily fixed with SK if you so choose 
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
I almost always use Kelsey if my PC isn't a sorceror, of course I have to SK his spell selections a bit, but he's on the same level as the in game NPCs as far as power. And quite the riot when comboed with Jan.
"I'll take the stupid one who decided to threaten us, instead of shoot us when he had the chance" - Bao-Dur
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Raven_Song
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Road testing the sorcerer
Right been playing as a sorcerer for a while and this is what I found
Pro's
* More fire power
Con's
* Restricted Spell choice
* Large number of interesting spells
* More reliant on certain strategies
* Less fun than in Icewind Dale 2 (which allowed more spell picks, had less interesting spells to choose from, and where well quite frankly mages were severely limited by a lack of scrolls, with the scrolls being placed inconveniently so as when you could cast seventh level scrolls you never found any until a whole chapter or so later
So ... it seems that the sorcerer just doesn't suit my particular playing style. So its back to the drawing board, new protagonist, new squad. Good job I've got a high boredom thresh hold. Maybe some day I'll find a protagonist and squad that fit perfectly and finally get passed the second chapter ....
although I never did finish BG1 or either of the Icewind Dales
Right been playing as a sorcerer for a while and this is what I found
Pro's
* More fire power
Con's
* Restricted Spell choice
* Large number of interesting spells
* More reliant on certain strategies
* Less fun than in Icewind Dale 2 (which allowed more spell picks, had less interesting spells to choose from, and where well quite frankly mages were severely limited by a lack of scrolls, with the scrolls being placed inconveniently
so as when you could cast seventh level scrolls you never found any until a whole chapter or so laterSo ... it seems that the sorcerer just doesn't suit my particular playing style. So its back to the drawing board, new protagonist, new squad. Good job I've got a high boredom thresh hold. Maybe some day I'll find a protagonist and squad that fit perfectly and finally get passed the second chapter ....
although I never did finish BG1 or either of the Icewind Dales
Well I'm glad to see i'm not the only chronic restarter out there. I can say that I don't think I've found the perfect party yet, but I've found plenty of configurations that work well enough for me. Having NPC prejudices doesn't help the situation either. Good luck in your neverending quest for the ideal party.
"I'll take the stupid one who decided to threaten us, instead of shoot us when he had the chance" - Bao-Dur
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Deadalready
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What kind of things do you find rewarding? For me I found it rewarding to backstab everything possible in the game so I end up with thief classes most of the time.
Or alternatively you can start a solo character to make the game more interesting, there's no need to worry about any banter dialogs (in my case YES!!!).
~
Also I think the two people who would be worst to chat in the game would be Cernd and Haer'Dalis.
Haer'Dalis: My fellow raven how is it that one bird such as you finds himself drawn to such a life as this?
Cernd: When the natures of the wild calls to me, the child I must answer unnervingly. Afterall the beauty of the great balance is important.
Haer'Dalis: Even if the call of the wilds may fly you further away from the nest that grew you?
Cernd: The whole of mother nature is my nest...
Me: MINSC!!!
Minsc: You point, I punch.
Me: Cernd and Haer'Dalis
Cernd: OPFF!! The light... the jewels...
Haer'Dalis: The feeling of footing apparel separating one's love eggs... I mean ow...
Or alternatively you can start a solo character to make the game more interesting, there's no need to worry about any banter dialogs (in my case YES!!!).
~
Also I think the two people who would be worst to chat in the game would be Cernd and Haer'Dalis.
Haer'Dalis: My fellow raven how is it that one bird such as you finds himself drawn to such a life as this?
Cernd: When the natures of the wild calls to me, the child I must answer unnervingly. Afterall the beauty of the great balance is important.
Haer'Dalis: Even if the call of the wilds may fly you further away from the nest that grew you?
Cernd: The whole of mother nature is my nest...
Me: MINSC!!!
Minsc: You point, I punch.
Me: Cernd and Haer'Dalis
Cernd: OPFF!! The light... the jewels...
Haer'Dalis: The feeling of footing apparel separating one's love eggs... I mean ow...
Warning: logic and sense is replaced by typos and errors after 11pm
Spoiler
, it has yet to return
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Raven_Song
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As you can see from my other thread I think I've found my perfect PC in the ranger/cleric as I have access to all priest spells (yeah insect plague, double yeah no druid) and a decent fighter to boot.
Don't think I could go solo. Its the NPc interaction and banter that makes this game so much more enjoyable for me.
Don't think I could go solo. Its the NPc interaction and banter that makes this game so much more enjoyable for me.
I think it's rewarding when you hit an enemy and they explode. It's also nice to kick the crap out of enemies that think that they can take you easily. I didn't feel too rewarded at the end of BG1 because I was on the run all the time from Sarevok, he most definitely was much tougher than my main character, seemed he could kill any of my tanks with about 4 swings of his sword. I felt like a coward running all the time, but there was no other way to beat him.
NPC interaction can be interesting, though the catfights between Jaheira and Aerie were a little disturbing. Aerie is supposed to be of "good" alignment, and yet she insults a dead man to the face of his widow, and you can't tell her off for doing so without her leaving the party. I guess the big problem is if 2 NPCs fight to the death, and you lose one. I think that that wasn't a very nice thing of Bioware to do, to allow you to build a party you were comfortable with, and then disrupt it.
About the cleric/ranger, an excellent choice. 2 free proficiency points in dual-wield, some druid spells, not bad at all. Dual-wield Crom Faeyr and flail of ages and this character should tear everything up, especially golems. Only thing that would make a cleric/ranger better would be if dwarves could choose that multiclass, thus having access to the dwarven throwing hammer. I read somewhere that some new AD&D dwarven subraces' favourite class was "ranger", so I thought "Why can't dwarves in BG2 be rangers? So I created a half-elven cleric/ranger, then used shadowkeeper to change his race to dwarf, and set his saving throws to be identical to a dwarven fighter/cleric (even though I'm sure rangers get better saving throws than fighters). Alas, he still couldn't use the Dwarven thrower! Am I the only one who absolutely hates it when weapons have alignment/racial restrictions?
It's also nice to kick the crap out of enemies that think that they can take you easily. I didn't feel too rewarded at the end of BG1 because I was on the run all the time from Sarevok, he most definitely was much tougher than my main character, seemed he could kill any of my tanks with about 4 swings of his sword. I felt like a coward running all the time, but there was no other way to beat him.NPC interaction can be interesting, though the catfights between Jaheira and Aerie were a little disturbing. Aerie is supposed to be of "good" alignment, and yet she insults a dead man to the face of his widow, and you can't tell her off for doing so without her leaving the party.
I guess the big problem is if 2 NPCs fight to the death, and you lose one. I think that that wasn't a very nice thing of Bioware to do, to allow you to build a party you were comfortable with, and then disrupt it. About the cleric/ranger, an excellent choice. 2 free proficiency points in dual-wield, some druid spells, not bad at all. Dual-wield Crom Faeyr and flail of ages and this character should tear everything up, especially golems. Only thing that would make a cleric/ranger better would be if dwarves could choose that multiclass, thus having access to the dwarven throwing hammer. I read somewhere that some new AD&D dwarven subraces' favourite class was "ranger", so I thought "Why can't dwarves in BG2 be rangers? So I created a half-elven cleric/ranger, then used shadowkeeper to change his race to dwarf, and set his saving throws to be identical to a dwarven fighter/cleric (even though I'm sure rangers get better saving throws than fighters). Alas, he still couldn't use the Dwarven thrower! Am I the only one who absolutely hates it when weapons have alignment/racial restrictions?
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Deadalready
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[QUOTE=Snoon]Am I the only one who absolutely hates it when weapons have alignment/racial restrictions?[/QUOTE]
Sometimes I feel that way but I'd generally have to diagree on a whole due to the fact that it's all due to player balance. That's why I disagree totally to mods such as Carsomyr for All and weapons for all. Some weapon and class combinations were never supposed to be and I feel totally against a mage weilding a Barabarian Warblade or Silver Sword, just feels so wrong to me.
Sometimes I feel that way but I'd generally have to diagree on a whole due to the fact that it's all due to player balance. That's why I disagree totally to mods such as Carsomyr for All and weapons for all. Some weapon and class combinations were never supposed to be and I feel totally against a mage weilding a Barabarian Warblade or Silver Sword, just feels so wrong to me.
Warning: logic and sense is replaced by typos and errors after 11pm
Spoiler
, it has yet to return
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Raven_Song
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I think I'm with Deadalready on this one. I think the alignment and racial restrictions add a sense of realism to the game (well as much realism as one can get in a swords and sorcery type game) as if anyone could wield Carsomyr what would be the point of playing a paladin or putting up with Keldorn's pompous self-righteous personage. Also it kind of gives players more incentive to play through with characters of different races, classes and alignments.
Have to admit I've never seen that particular interaction between Aerie and Jaheira (usually because I boot Jaheira at the first possible opportunity ) Although I wouldn't be surprised if Aerie was rude to her, and in my mind she is quite justified as Jaheria is a bit of a ***** toward Aerie.
Aerie: This ... This light makes your hair look really pretty, Jaheira.
Jaheira: Don’t be a fool. It does nothing of the sort.
Aerie: But -
Jaheira: Put your silly romantic notions aside, Aerie. This isn’t some childish fantasy, or some grand adventure. Anyone of us could die out here at any moment.
[Protagonist furiously crosses her fingers behind her back, in hope that Jaheria spontaneously drops, while smiling sweetly in her direction]
The patronization continues:
(Aerie below 10 hit points)
Jaheira: You mustn’t let yourself get so wounded, Aerie. I won’t always be here to bandage you, you know.
Aerie: I’m a healer too, Jaheira.
Jaheira: And what good are your spells now. You should be more frugal and not cast them all at once.
Aerie: Y-Yes ma’am.
Jaheira: And don’t stutter, it doesn’t become you.
(Aerie below 10 hits points again)
Jaheira: I see you are hurt, child. I will carry what extra I can if it will lighten your load.
Aerie: I am not weak, Jaheira, and you were as likely to be hurt as I.
Jaheira: I have more experience in battle, Aerie. Any wound I recieved might have killed you comparatively.
Aerie: So you say, but I shall not learn avoidance of such by cowering behind.
I think at this point even Keldorn wouldn't object if my Lawful Good Cleric/Ranger planted a warhammer in the back of her skull. Plus despite having the constitution of a newborn kitten Aerie is just sooooooo much more useful than Jaheria.
Have to admit I've never seen that particular interaction between Aerie and Jaheira (usually because I boot Jaheira at the first possible opportunity
) Although I wouldn't be surprised if Aerie was rude to her, and in my mind she is quite justified as Jaheria is a bit of a ***** toward Aerie.Aerie: This ... This light makes your hair look really pretty, Jaheira.
Jaheira: Don’t be a fool. It does nothing of the sort.
Aerie: But -
Jaheira: Put your silly romantic notions aside, Aerie. This isn’t some childish fantasy, or some grand adventure. Anyone of us could die out here at any moment.
[Protagonist furiously crosses her fingers behind her back, in hope that Jaheria spontaneously drops, while smiling sweetly in her direction]
The patronization continues:
(Aerie below 10 hit points)
Jaheira: You mustn’t let yourself get so wounded, Aerie. I won’t always be here to bandage you, you know.
Aerie: I’m a healer too, Jaheira.
Jaheira: And what good are your spells now. You should be more frugal and not cast them all at once.
Aerie: Y-Yes ma’am.
Jaheira: And don’t stutter, it doesn’t become you.
(Aerie below 10 hits points again)
Jaheira: I see you are hurt, child. I will carry what extra I can if it will lighten your load.
Aerie: I am not weak, Jaheira, and you were as likely to be hurt as I.
Jaheira: I have more experience in battle, Aerie. Any wound I recieved might have killed you comparatively.
Aerie: So you say, but I shall not learn avoidance of such by cowering behind.
I think at this point even Keldorn wouldn't object if my Lawful Good Cleric/Ranger planted a warhammer in the back of her skull. Plus despite having the constitution of a newborn kitten Aerie is just sooooooo much more useful than Jaheria.
[QUOTE=Raven_Song]Looking for a second tank type to complete a good aligned party consisting of
01. Protagonist Half-Elf Cleric/Mage basically Aerie without the whining and tendancy to die frequently
02. Keldron - Tank type - Carsomyr, True Sight and he annoys Anomen
03. Mazzy - ranged attack/support tank - I just really like her!
04. Anomen - healer/support tank - Slightly irritating but given the alternatives - Cernd (blandness personified), Jaheira (tied with Imoen as the most annoying NPC ever and given BG1 had Alora...) or Viconia (rather useless apart from the magic resistance)
05. Nalia - Primary mage and thief - she's modded so her thief skills are slightly improved
06. ?
I was thinking either Valygar or Minsc. Both rangers. Both good tanks. Valygar no personality, Minsc THE most annoying sound set in the game. Any thoughts as to which I should go for?[/QUOTE]
Valygar....
Valygar and Minsc are Ranger Class. So they are fighter.
Valygar Minsc
str 17 18/93
dex 18 16
con 16 16
Because the game has strength belt. The strength has easy to updata 19-22.
Valygar was a stalker,he can use backstab*3(*4 in tob)
Minsc can't do it.
Though Minsc use fury once day, it's very useful. It's little.
Valygar's Armor is very good Armor,and he can use kantana,spear when he joined you.
01. Protagonist Half-Elf Cleric/Mage basically Aerie without the whining and tendancy to die frequently
02. Keldron - Tank type - Carsomyr, True Sight and he annoys Anomen
03. Mazzy - ranged attack/support tank - I just really like her!
04. Anomen - healer/support tank - Slightly irritating but given the alternatives - Cernd (blandness personified), Jaheira (tied with Imoen as the most annoying NPC ever and given BG1 had Alora...) or Viconia (rather useless apart from the magic resistance)
05. Nalia - Primary mage and thief - she's modded so her thief skills are slightly improved
06. ?
I was thinking either Valygar or Minsc. Both rangers. Both good tanks. Valygar no personality, Minsc THE most annoying sound set in the game. Any thoughts as to which I should go for?[/QUOTE]
Valygar....
Valygar and Minsc are Ranger Class. So they are fighter.
Valygar Minsc
str 17 18/93
dex 18 16
con 16 16
Because the game has strength belt. The strength has easy to updata 19-22.
Valygar was a stalker,he can use backstab*3(*4 in tob)
Minsc can't do it.
Though Minsc use fury once day, it's very useful. It's little.
Valygar's Armor is very good Armor,and he can use kantana,spear when he joined you.
I totally agree about Jaheira. I only kept her in my first run through of the game for role-playing reasons. She made a promise to Gorion to protect <charname>, and also her husband was murdered by Irenicus, so I felt that she should be allowed to share in the revenge. I absolutely hate her personality though. There's a reason why on my 2nd and 3rd runs through the game Jaheira stays inside her cage. I just pretend that she doesn't exist anymore, I don't get close enough to the cage for the dialogue to trigger. I pretend that I dumped her in Baldur's Gate.
It was funny, the first time I got the dialogue where Jaheira tells off Aerie for getting wounded. Both Jaheira and Aerie were close to death, and neither had any healing spells left. Jaheira was quite the hypocrite, nagging Aerie for being in the same predicament as she was. I saw the same dialogue another time, I'm not sure if I reloaded but I saw the dialogue twice, and the other time Aerie had a full batch of healing spells, and Jaheira nagged her for using all of her spells up early. "You mustn't let yourself get so wounded Aerie!" It does seem like Jaheira is looking for any excuse to nag at Aerie, I mean, obviously Aerie isn't getting wounded deliberately.
As for "Any wound I had recieved might have killed you comparatively", well I don't understand that one. If your jugular gets sliced, it gets sliced, no amount of experience in battle will stop all of your blood from squirting out (though hopefully a quick healing spell will). Another thing to point out, is that Jaheira is usually wearing a full plate armour, meanwhile aerie is restricted to robes (if she wants to use her mage spells). Saying that any wound you received would have killed another person is quite arrogant. I guess it has to do with AD&D's unrealistic hitpoint system. Sure, it's in the game, but I don't think dialogue should be based around it.
Anyways, Aerie has every right to defend herself against Jaheira's constant nagging, but I think that it's going a bit too low to insult the dead. It was quite an out of character thing for Aerie, but then again, Jaheira can bring out the worst in us. I wanted to smack her one when she told me to "be quiet" when I was talking to the silver dragon, then she proceeded to babble on herself, as though she was more important than I was, and she had the right to speak where I didn't. Hearing about nature and balance every 5 minutes was irritating as well. I thought we were supposed to rescue Imoen and then destroy an evil wizard, not be going around planting trees.
About Carsomyr and Keldorn: I don't mind Keldorn at all, very useful abilities, very capable fighter. I think that his voice acting is done very well also (even though I dislike NPCs babbling on about their deities). I wouldn't mind taking him through the game in the least. But if you've done the quest regarding his family, you can see that truly his place is with his family. For role-playing reasons, I think it's best he stays home. As such, I never got to really use Carsomyr in my first run through the game. I installed the "Universal Carsomyr" mod for my second run through, and let Minsc use it. Most of the time I had him using Lilarcor anyways, because of its charm/confusion immunity bonus.
As to the reasoning behind the usage restrictions of certain weapons, I could understand that some weapon enchanted by a "good" diety would allow itself to only be used by a "good" person, but I'm not sure why it should care about their class. But I can't understand why an evil weapon should care who uses it though, which leads me to believe that the character themself doesn't want to use the sword, and not the other way around. What is wrong with using a sword that gives thac0 penalties to an enemy, as long as you are doing it for the greater good? At any rate, there is no NPC fighter of neutral alignment in the game, and the only evil NPC fighter is Korgan, and he has mastery in axes, specialization in hammers, so it's not viable to have him weilding the Soul Reaver +4. Therefore, you're likely to only use it if you have a neutral or evil warrior class PC. Disappointing to find loot that you can't use, though I don't *need* to use it in order to win. Same goes for the dwarven thrower, and I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't the *only* throwable hammer to be found in the game.
I just pretend that she doesn't exist anymore, I don't get close enough to the cage for the dialogue to trigger. I pretend that I dumped her in Baldur's Gate. It was funny, the first time I got the dialogue where Jaheira tells off Aerie for getting wounded. Both Jaheira and Aerie were close to death, and neither had any healing spells left. Jaheira was quite the hypocrite, nagging Aerie for being in the same predicament as she was. I saw the same dialogue another time, I'm not sure if I reloaded but I saw the dialogue twice, and the other time Aerie had a full batch of healing spells, and Jaheira nagged her for using all of her spells up early. "You mustn't let yourself get so wounded Aerie!" It does seem like Jaheira is looking for any excuse to nag at Aerie, I mean, obviously Aerie isn't getting wounded deliberately.
As for "Any wound I had recieved might have killed you comparatively", well I don't understand that one. If your jugular gets sliced, it gets sliced, no amount of experience in battle will stop all of your blood from squirting out (though hopefully a quick healing spell will). Another thing to point out, is that Jaheira is usually wearing a full plate armour, meanwhile aerie is restricted to robes (if she wants to use her mage spells). Saying that any wound you received would have killed another person is quite arrogant. I guess it has to do with AD&D's unrealistic hitpoint system. Sure, it's in the game, but I don't think dialogue should be based around it.
Anyways, Aerie has every right to defend herself against Jaheira's constant nagging, but I think that it's going a bit too low to insult the dead. It was quite an out of character thing for Aerie, but then again, Jaheira can bring out the worst in us. I wanted to smack her one when she told me to "be quiet" when I was talking to the silver dragon, then she proceeded to babble on herself, as though she was more important than I was, and she had the right to speak where I didn't. Hearing about nature and balance every 5 minutes was irritating as well. I thought we were supposed to rescue Imoen and then destroy an evil wizard, not be going around planting trees.
About Carsomyr and Keldorn: I don't mind Keldorn at all, very useful abilities, very capable fighter. I think that his voice acting is done very well also (even though I dislike NPCs babbling on about their deities). I wouldn't mind taking him through the game in the least. But if you've done the quest regarding his family, you can see that truly his place is with his family. For role-playing reasons, I think it's best he stays home. As such, I never got to really use Carsomyr in my first run through the game. I installed the "Universal Carsomyr" mod for my second run through, and let Minsc use it. Most of the time I had him using Lilarcor anyways, because of its charm/confusion immunity bonus.
As to the reasoning behind the usage restrictions of certain weapons, I could understand that some weapon enchanted by a "good" diety would allow itself to only be used by a "good" person, but I'm not sure why it should care about their class. But I can't understand why an evil weapon should care who uses it though, which leads me to believe that the character themself doesn't want to use the sword, and not the other way around. What is wrong with using a sword that gives thac0 penalties to an enemy, as long as you are doing it for the greater good? At any rate, there is no NPC fighter of neutral alignment in the game, and the only evil NPC fighter is Korgan, and he has mastery in axes, specialization in hammers, so it's not viable to have him weilding the Soul Reaver +4. Therefore, you're likely to only use it if you have a neutral or evil warrior class PC. Disappointing to find loot that you can't use, though I don't *need* to use it in order to win. Same goes for the dwarven thrower, and I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't the *only* throwable hammer to be found in the game.
Something I want to mention, regarding a post on the first page of this thread, about Viconia's "pathetic" strength. I believe that it would be more accurate to say "Viconia's strength, which is comparatively low to the powergaming stats that most NPCs have".
It has been nearly 15 years since I have read a dungeonmaster's guide, and I'm not sure how the rules have changed since then, but I believe that in the ruleset that BG2 uses, strength 10 is still "average". That's average, based upon a lifestyle full of hard work. So a farmer, who is doing hard work all day, could have 10 strength. An ogre, a 9-foot-tall man-eating giant, has a strength of 18/00. So Valygar's strength of 17 is likely enough to enable him to roll over a 3000lb automobile. Just wanted to mention that.
Edit: And I will also mention that Drizzt, famous hero in Faerun and in a lot of AD&D books, and his nemesis, Artemis Entreri, both have a strength of 13. That seems "pathetic" when compared with any BG2 NPC fighter, but as I said, the BG2 NPCs' stats are quite powergamish.
It has been nearly 15 years since I have read a dungeonmaster's guide, and I'm not sure how the rules have changed since then, but I believe that in the ruleset that BG2 uses, strength 10 is still "average". That's average, based upon a lifestyle full of hard work. So a farmer, who is doing hard work all day, could have 10 strength. An ogre, a 9-foot-tall man-eating giant, has a strength of 18/00. So Valygar's strength of 17 is likely enough to enable him to roll over a 3000lb automobile. Just wanted to mention that.
Edit: And I will also mention that Drizzt, famous hero in Faerun and in a lot of AD&D books, and his nemesis, Artemis Entreri, both have a strength of 13. That seems "pathetic" when compared with any BG2 NPC fighter, but as I said, the BG2 NPCs' stats are quite powergamish.