Iltha the romance obsticle?

Callimar · Post by **Callimar** » Wed Jun 13, 2001 8:18 am

My character be a paladin, and therefore when I arrive in Garren Windspear's house, I soon get his daughter Iltha kissing my boots and spouting some crap about how great paladins are. I didn't object when she asked me to 'smite evil in her name' or some such pish. Now, I've noticed Jaheira has stopped talking to me, and it has been a long while. Is there a link...?

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Wed Jun 13, 2001 9:53 am

I don't think so, I was romancing Arie as an Undead Hunter and it never affected a thing. I don't recall whether I told her I was single or not when she asked.....I DO know that Jaheira's romance is seriously screwed anyway....

Abecedarian · Post by **Abecedarian** » Wed Jun 13, 2001 11:48 am

The Jaheira romance is incredibly prolonged. Mine seems to be going OK, but I did not get the Terminsel "this note was blowing in the wind" event until approximately day 112, and the "dawning of our day" speech until about 120. You have to be patient.

Callimar · Post by **Callimar** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 10:55 am

I've been patient for a week now.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 11:57 am

not to mention the Jaheira romance is notoriosly bugged. I never completed it myself.

Abecedarian · Post by **Abecedarian** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:43 pm

Yes--as a follow-up to my "you have to be patient" message above, let me say that my Jaheira romance did fail. After the events above nothing else ever happened. (My party is now standing outside the door to Irenicus' final refuge, and the game will end on day 160.) I don't think the Jaheira romance can be successfully completed without importing outside help, perhaps from Baldurdash.

slenz · Post by **slenz** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 6:15 pm

Actually, thats an incorrect assumption.

The Jahera Romance CAN be completed without cheats, or the multitude of non-Black Isle patches.

I have done it. It's VERY involved. You have to do a muber of things, including one episode where you must camp outdoors and deal with a rather sticky situation, and also you must AVOID doing certain things, such as doing the dog fights, etc.

it's a hard romance to work out, but it can be done.

you just have to basically treat Jahera as an oversensitive type, and tread on eggshells in conversations with her, woo the turd outta her, kiss her ass, play the emasculated male, etc etc etc.

All this for a night of kinky sex with a half elf..

And not even a Full Motion Video as a reward =P

But, to respond, the Jahera Romance CAn be won without cheats or imports.

You just gotta know how to deal with a Jahera type chick.

[url="http://null"]null[/url]

Callimar · Post by **Callimar** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 2:07 am

How long exactly does it take? Even when I'm thorough I complete the game usually on 80 days or something (I always try to use the least game time possible).

slenz · Post by **slenz** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 8:47 pm

I did the Jahera romance in a game that lasted only 65 days..

Warning... SPOILER.........

If your having trouble, make sure to do an outdoor camp, I did this after leaving the underdark. Usually camping in small pass, forest of tethyr, etc etc will do it.

Then, make sure you take the arrow in the chest. Jahera will freak out at the thought of losing you and go balistic on the robbers. This all leads up to getting some of that half elf nookie.

I also wound up having to save jahera after she got bit by bodhi. I ran my ass to the Umar Hills, got he rezzed by the statue of amuanator, and... BLING BLING... Nookification.

velvetfreak · Post by **velvetfreak** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 9:05 pm

Originally posted by Khanbhaal Nocturnus:
<STRONG>Actually, thats an incorrect assumption.

The Jahera Romance CAN be completed without cheats, or the multitude of non-Black Isle patches.</STRONG>

That may be so, but the implied slur on "non-Black Isle patches" is completely unnecessary. I think if you bothered to actually look at one of these patches, for instance Manveru's, you'd find that there are legitimate reasons for thinking this romance is bugged. I don't mean to be blunt, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.

it's a hard romance to work out, but it can be done.

You just gotta know how to deal with a Jahera type chick.

I suggest that's supporting evidence for the above.

vf

[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: velvetfreak ]

slenz · Post by **slenz** » Fri Jun 22, 2001 11:52 pm

Velvet??

WTF are you talking about? First off, there was no 'implied slur'. What ever made you take it that way, well I guess you'll have to deal with it.

As for legitimate reasons for thinking it's bugged. Bah. There are none, because it is not. It's just difficult.

But I guess you the type that cheats when things get tough.

As for your supporting evidence quotes? They only support my statement, which is fact, that the Jahera Romance is not bugged. Without using CLU console or any other mod, you can indeed suceed in the romance.

How much more simpler do I need to say it.

The statement against non-black Isle patches was not meant as a slur, but a clarification of a baseline, as non-OFFICIAL patches do, indeed change things within the game. As such, since that was not the setup I used fo proving this hypothesis, I used the statement to identify the environment I used to prove that the romance is not bugged.

The use of the word OR does not lump a group of identifiers, it shows a seperation. You'll learn this in school, eventually. The patches are fine, never once did I disparage them. Thicken up your skin and quit taking things so out of context as to make them personal.

YES I know you make patches. So? It still has nothing to do with the fact that I have won the Jahera romance without it. and was stating as such so others could indeed feel they could do so too without the need to import some non-official software that MAY or MAY not interfere with the ToB expansion.

Read non-black isle patch as UNSUPPORTED.

Maybe you don't understand some people's desires to keep the game pure, and thus, fully SUPPORTED by Black Isle. Actually, I doubt that. I'm sure you do understand it, h but in your rush to judgement, you overlooked such a thing.

/sigh

[ 06-23-2001: Message edited by: Khanbhaal Nocturnus ]

velvetfreak · Post by **velvetfreak** » Sat Jun 23, 2001 2:11 am

@KhanBhaal: Okay, sure, I took a shot at you. The Jaheira romance is not perfect. For instance, in the original game, if you advanced far enough in the Harper's quest to have rescued Jaheira from the Harper's Hold, then go to Brynnlaw, when you get out of the Underdark you will be intercepted by Dermin's party and attacked - causing the Elves to go hostile. Showstopper. Do you really think the game designers expected you not to take the Harper's quest that far, or wait for another interaction, before going to Brynnlaw?

Do I really need to demonstrate half a dozen other instances of things that can break in this romance?

You felt that people should know they can succeed with the romance without having to resort to a patch, or CLUA manipulating. Well, possibly. Come up with a dozen do's-and-don'ts to cover scenarios like the one above, and you'll have it foolproof.

But I guess you the type that cheats when things get tough.

Now that was uncalled for.

The statement against non-black Isle patches was not meant as a slur, but a clarification of a baseline, as non-OFFICIAL patches do, indeed change things within the game.

Damn straight they do. Do you know what I changed in the Glaicas script? WIZARD_DISPEL_MAGIC_TRUE was being used to dispel Glaicas' charm state so he could initiate dialog for a 22500 xp interaction bonus, not to mention handing over a flail head. What I think the developers overlooked was that the level the dispel was being cast at was too puny for Glaicas' level, giving it about a 5% chance of succeeding. I changed that one spell reference to FORCE_DISPEL_MAGIC which always succeeds. I didn't come up with that myself. Someone more experienced did. I just took the initiative of finding out where to look. Next you're gonna tell me that that variation on the encounter was an Easter Egg.

YES I know you make patches. So? It still has nothing to do with the fact that I have won the Jahera romance without it. and was stating as such so others could indeed feel they could do so too without the need to import some non-official software that MAY or MAY not interfere with the ToB expansion.

Kudos to you for getting through it unaided. Others have not been so lucky.

And yes I acknowledge your concern with ToB. What I find disappointing is that Bioware accepted Kevin's fixes for consideration, but ToB still has things broken that he brought to their attention. Carsomyr's damage is still not as advertised. I don't think they had time to look at it thoroughly, and I think that can be said in general. Bioware is a company, with a bottom line, and time constraints. You and I are not.

I'll add to this. The work in Kevin Dorner's patches is as fine as anything created by the Bioware crew. Just 'cos they're part of the company doesn't make them untouchable. I think the real reason they didn't incorporate the Baldurdash work (or at least allof it) is because they did run out of time, and couldn't risk implementing it without testing - for support reasons.

Read non-black isle patch as UNSUPPORTED.

Not as bound by trade laws, but I wouldn't mind betting the bugfix enthusiasts are more responsive to feedback than Bioware.

See, this is part of my whole "attitude" (- problem, as you would have it). We're in a position to do more implementation and playtesting than they are. Their time is money, ours isn't. One of the really neat things about the Infinity engine is its modular design was very well done by Bioware (all credit to them). With the editing tools that are now available, it's so easy to go in and get an idea of what's going on. There is talk in some quarters about trying to convince them to release it under some kind of GPL once the franchise is finished.

Maybe you don't understand some people's desires to keep the game pure, and thus, fully SUPPORTED by Black Isle. Actually, I doubt that. I'm sure you do understand it, h but in your rush to judgement, you overlooked such a thing.

No, your first guess was closer to the mark. I'm mystified as to what you expect from company support. I don't know if you think that the game - as released - came out exactly as the designers intended (probably not). I certainly don't. And I think it's possible to ascertain what they did have in mind, and so do many others, and I'm sure that's what motivates people to create patches.

What we're all after is the most enjoyable game experience possible. I don't have a problem with how you decide to play your game. And I hope I've demonstrated enough reason for taking issue with your initial advice.

[ 06-23-2001: Message edited by: velvetfreak ]

[ 06-23-2001: Message edited by: velvetfreak ]