tips please

Albrecht · Post by **Albrecht** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:05 pm

hello everyone,
I am kind of new to the forums allthough I have been looking around for quite a while now... picking up tips here and there.
here's my problem though, I have been playing Vtm: bloodlines for a while now and I am having quite a few difficulties.
I tried a tremere and a gangrel, the gangrel didn't make it too far because I was getting bored with him, the Tremere made a much better progress.
anyways as I was reading through the posts I noticed people idolize thaumaturgy... to be frank i fail to realize why people are so worked up about it, I am currently stuck with the 2 brothers down in the giovanni crypts and even bloodboil does pathetic amounts of damage (31 for 4 blood points, pfft). I am using a katana mostly ( 4 melee, 3 str ) and they are ripping me a part...
I didn't like the Gangrel cause at least up to rank 3, protean seemed dull, slow and not very effective... I did like animalism but I heared Pestilance wasn't that great either.
I am looking for an idea, here are my options as i see them:
1. start the game over with another clan ( suggestions would be most welcome )
2. try again with my tremere ( again suggestions would be most welcome as to how I can make him as Uber as I have heard Tremere can be )
3. lay down and die ( not really an option, but hell it's a possability )
thanks in advance

l6vi · Post by **l6vi** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:12 am

In regards to fighting the Changs, concentrate on one only [Go for the claw brother if possible] and when they are in the centre of the room charging that magic attack, run into the stairwell. It protects you.

Oh yes and keep trying with the Tremere

Rhydderch Hael · Post by **Rhydderch Hael** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:33 am

This is an opinion of mine, but perhaps your difficulty in dealing with the Changs isn't due to your attention to your magical capabilities, but your choice in physical attacks.

Tremeres have a Strength cap, remember. That was incentive enough on my part to forsake melee combat entirely and devote my Tremere's fighting ability to guns.

Thaumaturgy can really accent a gunslinging Tremere in a firefight. Blood Strike (not Blood Salvo— too costly for little potential benefit) offers you a "second shot" while you're busy reloading your gun. Purge inflicts damage and (except for boss fights) stops the enemy cold while you put some distance between the two of you.

Blood Boil isn't something you can rely on in all battle situations. One-on-one, or as a strategic means of taking out a group of footmen unawares. But in the Chang fight, not the best. I found Purge more effective in damaging the Changs should they get too close, and Blood Strike may offer that extra "oomph". Try rapid-casting Blood Strike. You won't get any of that blood returned to you, but its the magical damage is what you want to dish out here. (it's exactly how I killed Brother Vick after running out of shotgun shells peppering the zombies).

All in all, my opinion is that the Tremeres are better shooters than brawlers. Thaumaturgy can assist you as a backup attack, and Auspex actually enhances your shooting damage (increase in Perception, thus increasing your Ranged attack feat, which in turns swings the gun's Feat Adjustment to your favor).

Albrecht · Post by **Albrecht** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:22 am

oh well

I think it is too little too later to convert my tremere to a ranged fighter, especially when the only line i seem to see is " you're so broke you can't even efford to pay attention".
due to the fact that I really don't like shooters... I might do a toreador... could be fun.
in the p&p ( pen and paper ) game Tremre rule spreme though, Thaumaturgy has nothing to do with the skill which is presented in the game, the only common grounds is blood boil... in in V:tm p&p it can easily obliterate a vampire, not to say that it'll take him something close to a month to heal from the wounds...
too bad there are no tremere anymore... in the new p&p version ( vampire the requiem ) they took'em out... hell there is no camarilla, sabbat or anarchs for that matter..
for those who don't know Thaumaturgy was split into 4 branches, so it was really 4 disciplines in one, blood magic - bloodboil and other neat stuff, lure of flames- ignite people, things, the stronger you get, the more intense is your inferno, path of the mind- psychokanisis... rather cool... the more you advance, the higher the weight you can mess with ( up to 1000 pounds I think) and lastly, path of entropy... all things related to decay and ash... mostly turning humans to heaps of ash... not very humanitarian.
o well, enough babbling
see ya

Blu3)Marine( · Post by **Blu3)Marine(** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:59 am

well, you made a bad decision going on melee with tremere, i know, i did the same thing =]
tremere sux a lot in melee, not because of capped 4max strength, but because they have no good disciplines to assit them, sure, you can kill Gimble no-problemo, but tougher creatures wont give you much chance, with my melee tremere i had terrible problems to get past those human-legged things in warrens...
maybe a tip here for you if you dont know it -> when in melee and you attack your target hard enough for him to drop on the groung he will start to stand up, but during that process you cannot hit him, normally, but when you do the jump attack (↓ + Attack) you can hit him and deal much more damage to him after that because he will still be in recovery lock

Jandau · Post by **Jandau** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:28 am

Melee tremere bad? Hardly... True, they don't have the "common" mellee disciplines (potence and fortitude), but they have one of the best close combat disciplines in the game - Purge. Needless to point out, purge only works at close range, and works well, buying you time, leaving the enemy open for attacks and dealing a decent amount of damage. Also, let's not forget Blood Shield, which absorbs large amounts of damage and is IMO prefferable to lvl 3-4 fortitude. Dominate offers an instant kill spell early (Suicide) which helps with crowd control, and Trance is the most usefull lvl1 spell in the game (good for sneaking, assassination, feeding and taking people out of the fight for a while).

Basic combat strategy: Cast Blood Shield before entering the fight. Start by shooting off a Suicide and Trance, taking care of two enemies. Try to get as many of them to crowd you and activate Purge. Butcher tham while they are helpless, or go after their ranged support (Suicide can help here). If you're low on blood, Trance someone and feed (feeding on tranced opponents succeeds 99% of the time, regardless of your unarmed skill). Continue casting Purge as needed. Save the last enemy as a farewell snack....

Much more fun than a, say, Brujah....

Blu3)Marine( · Post by **Blu3)Marine(** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:39 pm

that works with like ummm... security guards... but try tougher enemy/boss with that tactic, except purge other disciples are almost useless

pennypincher · Post by **pennypincher** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:47 pm

A lot of people read the Pen and Paper rules for Thruam and say "Wow! Boils peoples blood in their body and kills them instantly".. However:

It's a willpower roll to activate, and at level 5, which is the power in question, it's diff 9 on a ten sided dice.. Meaning you have to roll 9's to even get the thing to do a single level of Aggrivated dammage, let alone instantly fry a Vampire.. Assuming said Vampire doesn't have Fortitude. And botching the roll, which is a MASSIVE chance at diff 9, means the loss of willpower dots. Ouchie.

In other news.. Oh my god run! Albrecht is playing a Vampire game!! *sound of running feet*

There is another solution to your Tremere powerless-ness. With a combination of Bloodshield, Bloodbuff and a Katana should still enable you to pound the living be-geebus outta most enemies without breaking a sweat. What you MIGHT wanna do is consider investing your hard earned cash into bloodbags.. I know I know, you don't have a lot of money.. If your Pursade is high you can usualy con some out of the prince before each mission, and it's usualy a healthy amount too.
Bloodbags are kind enough to pause the game while you heal, get blood for fuling your powers and fit conviently in your pocket.
If this doesn't work.. Yeah, maybe you should start again.

Albrecht · Post by **Albrecht** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:02 am

well you got things a bit mixed up really... botching means you get a score of 1 on one of the dice while having no success what so ever (all other rolls are less than the diff numcer)... a wise player invests a great deal in willpower ( about 8 ) so 8 dice, it is risky, but the odds of getting a score of 1 and not getting any rolls over 8 are rather slim...
besides... in p&p killing another vampire instantly is a much bigger deal then in the pc version of things

pennypincher · Post by **pennypincher** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:27 pm

I think we've been playing different games! In any game I've run or been in, killing a vampire is quite a task.. After all, if I had Dominate or Fortitude or Obfuscate, I can promise you I'd use them in every cunning way I could think of to save my own hide at every chance I could.
Not to mention that if you DO kill another Kindred, unless they are someone directly oposed to your sect, your in a LOT of trouble with the local kindred population. Even the sabbat brutal punish those that kill other Sabbat in anything short of Monomancy.
Also, don't be fooled by the seeming mathmatical logic of having 8 dice at diff 9 being okay odds, dice aren't a mathmatical progression. The fact is, you greatly increase your chance of botching at diff 9 the more dice you add, as the chances of getting a 9 or 10 are still very slim, and the chances of getting a 2-8 very high.. Meaning most of your dice will come up failures... And you increase your chances of just ONE of them comming up a one with each new dice you add. A wise Tremere doesn't envoke diff 9 powers willy nilly.
All that aside, at diff 9, even if you did have all 10 dice, it's likley you'd only get 2-4 odd suxs, which is enough to sting a Vampire and make it angry... but not enough to kill it. Considering how close you have to be in order to enact the power... Well, suffice to say, I'd rather be equiped with at least ONE physical discp at that range then all the thurmaturgy in the world.
On the other hand, holding them off the ground so they can't move with "Movement of the mind" THEN boiling their blood, that would be a mighty promising move.

Albrecht · Post by **Albrecht** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:38 pm

I really don't know where I let slip of something like: "killing a vampire is no biggy"
in the P&p game it is quite an ordeal to kill one, not to mention getting out of it without retrebution, so yes you are right, though I never claimed otherwise.
and yap, bloodboil is hard to do ( it's power level + 3 in the old vtm book = 8 )
aaanyways, yes the chance of killing a kindred in a single spell should be hard to go about... besides, a vampire managing such a feat will be feard be some... and persecuted by most

I am not really sure as to what we are arguing about... for i see no argument
doh, what a waste of space

Albrecht · Post by **Albrecht** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:39 pm

o I get it, I meant that in the vampire : bloodlines pc game killing vampires is a common feat is all

Jandau · Post by **Jandau** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:30 am

[QUOTE=Blu3)Marine(]that works with like ummm... security guards... but try tougher enemy/boss with that tactic, except purge other disciples are almost useless[/QUOTE]

Wrong. Bloodshield is always useful. Trance doesn't work, but Suicide does a healthy amount of damage, and Blood Missile can do a world of hurt for a very low cost. Purge is actually one of the spells I never used against Bosses...

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:08 am

I concur

well mostly I agree, but my Tremere had a lot of fun as a bit of a bruiser - the basic stats were limited and I admit I used the anaconda a lot - but a buffed tremere with blood soak and an axe is an imposing sight. the chang brothers are just plain difficult but follow the advice of Sun Tzu and use everything available to you, in particular your surroundings - the stairways are good for running into when you want to get away and narrow the killing zone - likewise the ledge running around the room can be used to your benefit.

the key point is to try to keep going for the claw brother until he is gone - without the double-trouble explosions and being bashed from more than one direction, you will find that a single Chang is easier to overcome and nowhere near as awesome as half the pair.

it is worth noting that a quicksave f9 can be used during the fight say if you have one brother down. OK so if you are very low on health and blood, it may seem unlikely that you'll win, but if you evade well enough you may get back to enough health to trade blows.

I like the katana, but first time through couldn't afford one at that point.

I suggested an arms dealership option to raise some cash in Chinatown - the FU Syndicate episode also leaves a lot of weapons about...

and if you are getting Confession cash at 250 per major mission interval...