OK can anyone enlighten me why everyone talk about the 3rd generation and nobody abaut the 2nd generation. i mean i never heard a word abaut it , i dont know anything abaut it can anyome tell me? and how did the 13 members of the 3rd generatin got theyr curses , why were they different( with 13 diferent curses) and why the became to fight one enother.
thank u for ur replys
the 3rd generation
the 3rd generation
There is a place that still remains
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
From what I remember there were three 2nd generation.
The 3rd generation got jealous of the power that those wielded in Enoch and killed them.
Caine in response cursed them after getting them out of Enoch.
But this is a hazy recollection from a few years back so hope that Lucita comes around for more details (and corrections)
The 3rd generation got jealous of the power that those wielded in Enoch and killed them.
Caine in response cursed them after getting them out of Enoch.
But this is a hazy recollection from a few years back so hope that Lucita comes around for more details (and corrections)
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Rhydderch Hael
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Caine is the First Genration. He is what God hath wrought when Caine was cursed for the murder of Abel.
Caine sired three vampires below him, who were the Second Generation.
These three in turn embraced thirteen vampires, the Third Generation.
The thirteen grandchilder of Caine, the Third Generation, rose up in revolt against the three vampires of the Second Generation and slew them. Thus, aside from the enigmatic Caine, the earliest known vampires whose bloodlines all other vampires can trace themselves to belong to the aforementioned cursed thirteen.
The reason the Second Generation is hardly worth mentioning is because they are all dead, and have been dead for a very, very long time.
Caine sired three vampires below him, who were the Second Generation.
These three in turn embraced thirteen vampires, the Third Generation.
The thirteen grandchilder of Caine, the Third Generation, rose up in revolt against the three vampires of the Second Generation and slew them. Thus, aside from the enigmatic Caine, the earliest known vampires whose bloodlines all other vampires can trace themselves to belong to the aforementioned cursed thirteen.
The reason the Second Generation is hardly worth mentioning is because they are all dead, and have been dead for a very, very long time.
Nope...Caine wasn't the 1st generation.....Caine is Caine....
The 1st Generation is another matter, it took me years to find out who they were and why they are never mentioned ( one clue, if you have the chance, read the Toreador Sourcebook for Vampire, Last Edition )....Let's just say this, Caine forbade everyone to every say their names again.....
The 2nd Generation were Irad the Strong ,Enosch ( or Ynosh ) the Law-Giver and Zillah the Beautiful.
They were sired by Caine after the 1st Generation....so they were weaker. They in turn sired the 3rd Generation, the Antediluvians. Those 13 ( or more, there are speculations that some of them never sired a brood and therefor there isn't a Clan now ) are the sires of the common Clans now.
The 3rd Generation later killed the 2nd Generation ( they didn't diablerize them ) and Caine cursed them. That's where the Clan Weaknesses come from. For example, Absimiliard ( the Nosferatu progenitor ) was the most beautiful man during that time, so Caine cursed him to look like the monster of his inner self.
Malkav was cursed with madness...and so on....
The 1st Generation is another matter, it took me years to find out who they were and why they are never mentioned ( one clue, if you have the chance, read the Toreador Sourcebook for Vampire, Last Edition )....Let's just say this, Caine forbade everyone to every say their names again.....
The 2nd Generation were Irad the Strong ,Enosch ( or Ynosh ) the Law-Giver and Zillah the Beautiful.
They were sired by Caine after the 1st Generation....so they were weaker. They in turn sired the 3rd Generation, the Antediluvians. Those 13 ( or more, there are speculations that some of them never sired a brood and therefor there isn't a Clan now ) are the sires of the common Clans now.
The 3rd Generation later killed the 2nd Generation ( they didn't diablerize them ) and Caine cursed them. That's where the Clan Weaknesses come from. For example, Absimiliard ( the Nosferatu progenitor ) was the most beautiful man during that time, so Caine cursed him to look like the monster of his inner self.
Malkav was cursed with madness...and so on....
Lucita y Aragon, Childe of Ambrosio Luis Moncada, Childe of Silvester de Ruiz, Childe of Boukephos, Childe of Lasombra
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pennypincher
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Yep, just a few adders.
Caine chose to make the Second Generation when he became lonley, bored and isolated from wandering the land of Nod for so many years, and his hope was to chose a few worthy people to make kings amoung men out of them, and that they could act as protectors and guardians of mankind.
Of course, it didn't wind up that way. One blew out to three, and those three argued and bickered with themselves as to who was the best and strongest. They created their own Vampires and used them against one another in little, secret jabs and pokes. Caine saw that his little experiment had failed and decided maybe he should take another walk in Nod to clear his head.. So off he went.
Imagine his suprise to come back and find his three chosen children dead, mortals at mortals throats with swords drawn at the whim of their 13 vampire masters, and said vampires angrily fighting one another to become the next God on earth.
Suffice to say, the guy was miffed. The second generations story ends there... In theory. They weren't diabed, only killed, so theres no "soul takes over younger vampires body" theory that can float around.. And they were young themselves at the time, so it's hard to imagine them wiedling cosmic powers and secretly controling their children to this day... Basicly, dems some dead Vampys.
Caine chose to make the Second Generation when he became lonley, bored and isolated from wandering the land of Nod for so many years, and his hope was to chose a few worthy people to make kings amoung men out of them, and that they could act as protectors and guardians of mankind.
Of course, it didn't wind up that way. One blew out to three, and those three argued and bickered with themselves as to who was the best and strongest. They created their own Vampires and used them against one another in little, secret jabs and pokes. Caine saw that his little experiment had failed and decided maybe he should take another walk in Nod to clear his head.. So off he went.
Imagine his suprise to come back and find his three chosen children dead, mortals at mortals throats with swords drawn at the whim of their 13 vampire masters, and said vampires angrily fighting one another to become the next God on earth.
Suffice to say, the guy was miffed. The second generations story ends there... In theory. They weren't diabed, only killed, so theres no "soul takes over younger vampires body" theory that can float around.. And they were young themselves at the time, so it's hard to imagine them wiedling cosmic powers and secretly controling their children to this day... Basicly, dems some dead Vampys.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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Rhydderch Hael
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I was of the mind that the First Generation of vampire was— Caine.
Anyone who is third generation *anything* is two generations removed from the first one. Move up two rungs, and you're on the same floor with the first guy.
It depends on whether or not you see Caine as the creator of all Cainite vampirism, or if he was the first product of Cainite vampirism that was created (by God's curse).
Is Caine a vampire, or just the maker of vampires? As a vampire, as the first vampire, he is the first generation of the blooddrinking undead immortals.
Anyone who is third generation *anything* is two generations removed from the first one. Move up two rungs, and you're on the same floor with the first guy.
It depends on whether or not you see Caine as the creator of all Cainite vampirism, or if he was the first product of Cainite vampirism that was created (by God's curse).
Is Caine a vampire, or just the maker of vampires? As a vampire, as the first vampire, he is the first generation of the blooddrinking undead immortals.
1st Generation
Lucita, you mentioned there was a generation before the 2nd. Zillah, Enosh and Irad. Is that true? Who were they?
From all I can gather 1st and 2nd generations and two steps removed to 3rd is merely an inherent paradox of numbers to real-life quantities.
Or Lilith was actually the first vampire making Caine the 1st Generation. Either that or just an ancient mage who first introduced disciplines.
Lucita, you mentioned there was a generation before the 2nd. Zillah, Enosh and Irad. Is that true? Who were they?
From all I can gather 1st and 2nd generations and two steps removed to 3rd is merely an inherent paradox of numbers to real-life quantities.
Or Lilith was actually the first vampire making Caine the 1st Generation. Either that or just an ancient mage who first introduced disciplines.
You know that Cainite "history" is sometimes contradicting, sometimes maybe right and sometimes outright wrong....
The problem is first the timescale ( the First City and the embrace of the 3rd Generation was about 8000 B.C. ), the Jyhad and of course the use of Domination as a discipline.
Two examples of "recent" vampire history that is nearlly forgotten by cainites today:
1st: The Salubri Clan: Tremere diablerized Saulot around 1100 A.D., after he became a 4th generation vampire with the aid of a magical potion of vampire blood. After this act, all Tremere started to hunt down the Salubri ( Saulot's Clan ), just about 100 years later, most Salubri had met final death by then, the rest was in discredit cause the Tremere spread rumours about the Salubri being able to steal the souls and so on. Nowadays there are 6 Salubri left and a few antitribu Salubri in the Sabbat, who were embraced after their Sire joined the Sabbat in the 1970's.
2nd: The Cappadocians: The former Clan of the Death was hunted down to near extinction by the Giovanni. In 1444 Augustus Giovanni diablerized his Sire Cappadocius ( Ashur ), the other Giovanni hunted down most of the Cappadocians, save a few escaping to the Americas and a few who were trapped in the Netherworlds.
These once proud Clans are nearlly forgotten today...and that happened just a few hundred years ago....so what's with events that reach back much further in time ?
According to some sources there was a 1st Generation. Okay...here it comes:
Caine met two lovers during his journeys, he thought their love and devotion to each other might allow them to break the curse of god, so he embraced them. But the lovers found out later that they never could have children of their own anymore. So they waited for the sun and met Final Death. Caine forbade everyone to mention their names ever.
Later Absimiliard ( the Nosferatu Anteliduvian ) spoke their names in his trial for the crimes against the 2nd Generation, and Caine cursed him with his monsterlike appearance.
The problem is first the timescale ( the First City and the embrace of the 3rd Generation was about 8000 B.C. ), the Jyhad and of course the use of Domination as a discipline.
Two examples of "recent" vampire history that is nearlly forgotten by cainites today:
1st: The Salubri Clan: Tremere diablerized Saulot around 1100 A.D., after he became a 4th generation vampire with the aid of a magical potion of vampire blood. After this act, all Tremere started to hunt down the Salubri ( Saulot's Clan ), just about 100 years later, most Salubri had met final death by then, the rest was in discredit cause the Tremere spread rumours about the Salubri being able to steal the souls and so on. Nowadays there are 6 Salubri left and a few antitribu Salubri in the Sabbat, who were embraced after their Sire joined the Sabbat in the 1970's.
2nd: The Cappadocians: The former Clan of the Death was hunted down to near extinction by the Giovanni. In 1444 Augustus Giovanni diablerized his Sire Cappadocius ( Ashur ), the other Giovanni hunted down most of the Cappadocians, save a few escaping to the Americas and a few who were trapped in the Netherworlds.
These once proud Clans are nearlly forgotten today...and that happened just a few hundred years ago....so what's with events that reach back much further in time ?
According to some sources there was a 1st Generation. Okay...here it comes:
Caine met two lovers during his journeys, he thought their love and devotion to each other might allow them to break the curse of god, so he embraced them. But the lovers found out later that they never could have children of their own anymore. So they waited for the sun and met Final Death. Caine forbade everyone to mention their names ever.
Later Absimiliard ( the Nosferatu Anteliduvian ) spoke their names in his trial for the crimes against the 2nd Generation, and Caine cursed him with his monsterlike appearance.
Lucita y Aragon, Childe of Ambrosio Luis Moncada, Childe of Silvester de Ruiz, Childe of Boukephos, Childe of Lasombra
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Talley_theHound
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WOW, this is some great stuff! Sounds just like what Beckett and his historian peers would talk like. Seeing that most Kindred/Cainite history is pretty muddled before 1000AD, its hard to sort fact and fiction (in game history). With most Kindred being less than 1000 years old, and those older are either destroyed or live in their own god-universe, who knows what to believe. Just like in real history, the winners are the ones that write it, and with all the stuff that happened between 1100 to 1500AD, for example: The Cainite Heresy, The Anarch Rebellion, The creation of the Camarilla and Sabbat factions, and add in all real history events from that time, what a mess!
I give White Wolf an A+ for their background material. I have never had the chance to play the PnP, but have read most of the books and a lot of the source books. I think they have intentionally muddled their history before Dark Ages Vampire on purpose, which adds a lot of flavor to the game. To many game systems make a timeline tree written in stone.
As far as who/what/when/where/why of Caine, just let your imagination go free and create your own opinions. Me, I believe Kapaneus is Caine from Time of Judgment #1, just the scene where he is just sitting there and 3 Assamites tried to take him out. When Beckett found him he was still just sitting there, but never noticed the fine layer of ash floating on the pond water. (ToJ1 252+254+255)
I give White Wolf an A+ for their background material. I have never had the chance to play the PnP, but have read most of the books and a lot of the source books. I think they have intentionally muddled their history before Dark Ages Vampire on purpose, which adds a lot of flavor to the game. To many game systems make a timeline tree written in stone.
As far as who/what/when/where/why of Caine, just let your imagination go free and create your own opinions. Me, I believe Kapaneus is Caine from Time of Judgment #1, just the scene where he is just sitting there and 3 Assamites tried to take him out. When Beckett found him he was still just sitting there, but never noticed the fine layer of ash floating on the pond water. (ToJ1 252+254+255)
"All the while he dodged and struck, called forth shadow tendrils of his own and moved with a laughing grace that was hypnotically smooth."-Lasombra Clan Novel
Yes...Kapaneus is Caine...that's my opinion too. You can really feel him suffering because of the evil ways of some of his childer. This man has lived ( or unlived ) for 12 millenia or more but never forgave himself for killing Abel....
And I have to say I am glad that my own self is with Anatole in Heaven, he showed me, a member of the Clan of Shadows, the Light....The last Lasombra left to defy our Antediluvian.
And I have to say I am glad that my own self is with Anatole in Heaven, he showed me, a member of the Clan of Shadows, the Light....The last Lasombra left to defy our Antediluvian.
Lucita y Aragon, Childe of Ambrosio Luis Moncada, Childe of Silvester de Ruiz, Childe of Boukephos, Childe of Lasombra
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pennypincher
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Yes, white wolf did muddle their history on purpose, to cause the kind of confusion Lucita seems to be suffering *winks*
Remember Lucita, those two lovers can't be the first generation if they don't pass their generation down onto the second generation, and Caine embraced them. You also seem confused about where all good vampires go when they die. *points down to oblivion*
Remember Lucita, those two lovers can't be the first generation if they don't pass their generation down onto the second generation, and Caine embraced them. You also seem confused about where all good vampires go when they die. *points down to oblivion*
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
I am not confused....
The 2nd Generation is embraced after the 1st....the curse of Caine grows weeker everytime......
If you don't believe me....the story about the 1st Generation is written in the Toreador Clanbook ( revised Edition ).
But of course....it doesn't explain a lot....I like the idea though that he embraced to lovers before the rest of his childer. And they saw the sun a final time out of love and devotion for each other....
And Anatole goes to heaven....he has True Faith, he comes down in an angellike appearance in the Gehenna Novel, allowing Lucita to come with him, cause she alone of her Clan resisted their Anteliduvian.
If you like check this out: http://vampirerpg.free.fr/Genealogy/
It's the list of all Vampire: The Masquerade published Vampires. There is some history about the anteliduvians, Caine and the rest too. And of course....there are several theories about them....so no conclusions....
The 2nd Generation is embraced after the 1st....the curse of Caine grows weeker everytime......
If you don't believe me....the story about the 1st Generation is written in the Toreador Clanbook ( revised Edition ).
But of course....it doesn't explain a lot....I like the idea though that he embraced to lovers before the rest of his childer. And they saw the sun a final time out of love and devotion for each other....
And Anatole goes to heaven....he has True Faith, he comes down in an angellike appearance in the Gehenna Novel, allowing Lucita to come with him, cause she alone of her Clan resisted their Anteliduvian.
If you like check this out: http://vampirerpg.free.fr/Genealogy/
It's the list of all Vampire: The Masquerade published Vampires. There is some history about the anteliduvians, Caine and the rest too. And of course....there are several theories about them....so no conclusions....
Lucita y Aragon, Childe of Ambrosio Luis Moncada, Childe of Silvester de Ruiz, Childe of Boukephos, Childe of Lasombra
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pennypincher
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No, you are confused hon. The curse of Caine grows weaker each time a vampire embraces a vampire one step down the ladder. If Caine embraced 1000 vampires every day, that would just make 1000 Second Generation Vampires each day.. But if THOSE vampires embraced another vampire, it would be 3rd Generation.. If those embraced one, it would be 4th Generation.. However if the 3rd Generation embraced a million children, they would ALL be 4th Generation, you see?
Generation is a representation of how close your blood is to Caines, whos blood is the strongest. Your always one step removed from your sire.. Baring diablerie.
The story from Clan Book Torreador is a Torrie love story, nothing more. Chances are it never happened at all and the clan just loves to say that it did. No actual indication of such an event happens any place in the book of Nod. You might note that almost all the clan books.. From way back in first edition to revised... have some story or another about their clan founder that is entierly a work of fiction, or some story about caines travles that show how he was JUST like their clan and so they are clearly his favourites. Clan book Ravnos would have you belive that Ravnos gave Gangrel her clan flaw, and that he stole Chimestry from a wandering Eshu gambler... Clan book Ventrue claims that Caine apointed them as the gaurdians of the Kindred race. Outcasts has the Cattiff claiming that Caine is the original Claness Vampire, and so they are all his chosen children, made in his love to not have any real clan flaw and hated by the others for this reason... Take your pick.
Caine 1st Generation of Vampire. 2nd Generation, the vampires made of Caines blood. 3rd Generation, the vampires made of their blood, so on, so forth.
As far as dead Malkavians with true faith go.. Another glaring oversight in the continual insult that is Time Of judgement. It's clearly pointed out in the Wraith books and in some of the Vampire books dealing with Necromancy that Vampires, no matter WHAT they did in life, are either instantly ahinahlated in oblivion, or become hungry wraiths with plenty of Angst to keep them moaning and groaning. True faith was nothing more then a projection of a persons belife in something more powerful then them that allowed a sort of protection.. You could as easily have true faith in Buddah, God, Mother Earth or Lesbian Tiger Monkey Ninjas... Just so long as your entier soul and mind were empowered by the belife that they were watching over you. It granted no promise of the afterlife.
Stupid White Wolf and their stupid Time Of Judgment books... After they started making books like Hunter: The Reckoning and Demon: The Fallen.. They really seemed to stop caring about the continuity of what they wrote before. Bewteen Set and Tremere and Malkavian twins wandering around after it was clearly stated that Set was dead, Malkavian was destoryed and Tremere never knew either of them... What the hell were they smoking?
From that, onto grude holding, assamite hunted Lasombra women... The entier Lasombra clan devoted themselves to the hunting and destruction on the antedeluvians, not just Lucita.. In fact, Lucita refused to join the faction whos entier purpose was to chase down, find, kill and dance over the bodies of the Founders.. The Sabbat! If it was as simple as "You tried to beat the antes, top work love" her entier clan would have been whisked away on a white cloud, all the while still slaughtering the human worm babies they so despised and cackaling with the Tzimisce who would be busy twisting 3 year olds into flesh eating monsters... This is why the Malkavians don't get to chose who goes to heaven.
Generation is a representation of how close your blood is to Caines, whos blood is the strongest. Your always one step removed from your sire.. Baring diablerie.
The story from Clan Book Torreador is a Torrie love story, nothing more. Chances are it never happened at all and the clan just loves to say that it did. No actual indication of such an event happens any place in the book of Nod. You might note that almost all the clan books.. From way back in first edition to revised... have some story or another about their clan founder that is entierly a work of fiction, or some story about caines travles that show how he was JUST like their clan and so they are clearly his favourites. Clan book Ravnos would have you belive that Ravnos gave Gangrel her clan flaw, and that he stole Chimestry from a wandering Eshu gambler... Clan book Ventrue claims that Caine apointed them as the gaurdians of the Kindred race. Outcasts has the Cattiff claiming that Caine is the original Claness Vampire, and so they are all his chosen children, made in his love to not have any real clan flaw and hated by the others for this reason... Take your pick.
Caine 1st Generation of Vampire. 2nd Generation, the vampires made of Caines blood. 3rd Generation, the vampires made of their blood, so on, so forth.
As far as dead Malkavians with true faith go.. Another glaring oversight in the continual insult that is Time Of judgement. It's clearly pointed out in the Wraith books and in some of the Vampire books dealing with Necromancy that Vampires, no matter WHAT they did in life, are either instantly ahinahlated in oblivion, or become hungry wraiths with plenty of Angst to keep them moaning and groaning. True faith was nothing more then a projection of a persons belife in something more powerful then them that allowed a sort of protection.. You could as easily have true faith in Buddah, God, Mother Earth or Lesbian Tiger Monkey Ninjas... Just so long as your entier soul and mind were empowered by the belife that they were watching over you. It granted no promise of the afterlife.
Stupid White Wolf and their stupid Time Of Judgment books... After they started making books like Hunter: The Reckoning and Demon: The Fallen.. They really seemed to stop caring about the continuity of what they wrote before. Bewteen Set and Tremere and Malkavian twins wandering around after it was clearly stated that Set was dead, Malkavian was destoryed and Tremere never knew either of them... What the hell were they smoking?
From that, onto grude holding, assamite hunted Lasombra women... The entier Lasombra clan devoted themselves to the hunting and destruction on the antedeluvians, not just Lucita.. In fact, Lucita refused to join the faction whos entier purpose was to chase down, find, kill and dance over the bodies of the Founders.. The Sabbat! If it was as simple as "You tried to beat the antes, top work love" her entier clan would have been whisked away on a white cloud, all the while still slaughtering the human worm babies they so despised and cackaling with the Tzimisce who would be busy twisting 3 year olds into flesh eating monsters... This is why the Malkavians don't get to chose who goes to heaven.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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Kdawghowls
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The newbie speaks...
This is all fascinating, but it fails to answer a couple questions.
Why did Cain have a wife? He's a vampire, why did he need Lilith? And if the only way to propagate your species is to chew on humans, where did those humans come from? Were they the descendants of Seth, or Adam's other children?
Also, humans were long lived back then too. They weren't immortal, but Adam lived 930 years before he died, and most of his descendants, up until Noah, lived to be around the 900 year mark. You'd think that an intially small population of long-lived humans would notice the predatory monsters plucking people from their midst and would try to eradicate them.
Also, how did the vampires survive the great flood? White Wolf has linked the story of the vampire with Biblical history, so how do they explain that? I can hardly believe that 13 vampires were on the ark, or that they could swim fast enough to catch enough fish to slake their thirst. I'll bet those snobby Ventrue wouldn't have survived the first day! What with the puking and all. HAHA!
Anyway, just throwing it out there. Band it about as you wish...
This is all fascinating, but it fails to answer a couple questions.
Why did Cain have a wife? He's a vampire, why did he need Lilith? And if the only way to propagate your species is to chew on humans, where did those humans come from? Were they the descendants of Seth, or Adam's other children?
Also, humans were long lived back then too. They weren't immortal, but Adam lived 930 years before he died, and most of his descendants, up until Noah, lived to be around the 900 year mark. You'd think that an intially small population of long-lived humans would notice the predatory monsters plucking people from their midst and would try to eradicate them.
Also, how did the vampires survive the great flood? White Wolf has linked the story of the vampire with Biblical history, so how do they explain that? I can hardly believe that 13 vampires were on the ark, or that they could swim fast enough to catch enough fish to slake their thirst. I'll bet those snobby Ventrue wouldn't have survived the first day! What with the puking and all. HAHA!
Anyway, just throwing it out there. Band it about as you wish...
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fable
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Guys, I have no problem with questions of theological dogma, but they really belong in SYM (Speak Your Mind), our non-game forum. What's more, you'll find a range of people there from a variety of religions and religious perspectives, many of them quite learned.
So rather than keep discussing the OT in V:TM, I suggest starting a SYM thread along those lines.
So rather than keep discussing the OT in V:TM, I suggest starting a SYM thread along those lines.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
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pennypincher
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Caine took Lilith because A) he was lonley, desperate, sad, imortal and in love. B) she taught him all his powers and the way of his vampire life C) she was like a new mother to him, and the only person who never judged the Father Of Murder in any way. He took a wife for the same reason any man takes a wife... Not with the intent to spred life, but because he wanted too.Kdawghowls wrote:This is all fascinating, but it fails to answer a couple questions.
Why did Cain have a wife? He's a vampire, why did he need Lilith? And if the only way to propagate your species is to chew on humans, where did those humans come from? Were they the descendants of Seth, or Adam's other children?
Humans were known as "The Children Of Seth" because... Yes... They were decendant of Seth.
Despite how long Adam might or might not have lived in the Bible, in Vampire The Masquerade they were WELL aware of the Vampires running around amidst them, and they did the smart thing: Worshiped them like Gods!! Would YOU want to be the one to try and fight the being who's whim covers the sun and blots out life? No thanks! Vampires, as you might note in the game, don't need to kill their vicitms in order to feed, so nobody suddenly went missing... Unless someone made a mistake...Also, humans were long lived back then too. They weren't immortal, but Adam lived 930 years before he died, and most of his descendants, up until Noah, lived to be around the 900 year mark. You'd think that an intially small population of long-lived humans would notice the predatory monsters plucking people from their midst and would try to eradicate them.
The word Antedeulvian translates to "After The Delugde"... Or After the flood. The third generation were the vampires made after the original vampires... The small handful there were... Survived the flood. Remembering that vampires of the 5th Generation have something around 60 blood points in their pool... Spending one point a night to live, thats 60 nights without blood... As it only rained for 40 days and 40 nights, we can safly assume that vampires with blood pools around 90+ would have laughed this short term rain storm off by going into torpor, just sitting around and waiting, or playing chess with each other.Also, how did the vampires survive the great flood? White Wolf has linked the story of the vampire with Biblical history, so how do they explain that? I can hardly believe that 13 vampires were on the ark, or that they could swim fast enough to catch enough fish to slake their thirst. I'll bet those snobby Ventrue wouldn't have survived the first day! What with the puking and all. HAHA!
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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MalaksBane
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@Kdawghowls
That would be exactly the kind of posts that do not fit in this forum, see Fable's post earlier on.
And don't post if you do not want to discuss, voicing your opinion and then closing the door is so cheap.
That would be exactly the kind of posts that do not fit in this forum, see Fable's post earlier on.
And don't post if you do not want to discuss, voicing your opinion and then closing the door is so cheap.
--
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
"And they know it was you."
"Too many of us migh set them off like fundamentalists on contrary opinion."
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Kdawghowls
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My apparent "cheapness" explained
I'm "closing the door" to stop this from becoming a religious discussion on the topic. No one can win an arguement about that because everyone has their own opinions about religious topics, and very rarely are they willing to be flexible about them. I'm not going to continue a debate of that nature because it is pointless. There's nothing cheap about it.
I asked the questions about Cain and his wife and the other stuff so that I could understand a little more about the VTM world history. Penny cleared up that confusion for me, and I thanked her for that. My other post/rant, was toward a person who seemed to think that I was opening the door to Biblical interpretations, which was not my intention at all.
I'm "closing the door" to stop this from becoming a religious discussion on the topic. No one can win an arguement about that because everyone has their own opinions about religious topics, and very rarely are they willing to be flexible about them. I'm not going to continue a debate of that nature because it is pointless. There's nothing cheap about it.
I asked the questions about Cain and his wife and the other stuff so that I could understand a little more about the VTM world history. Penny cleared up that confusion for me, and I thanked her for that. My other post/rant, was toward a person who seemed to think that I was opening the door to Biblical interpretations, which was not my intention at all.
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fable
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No one's talking about intentions, Kdawghowls. But when you write:
So what you are saying is, the Bible's early stories aren't to be taken literally but the later texts are?
...then write a lengthy post discussion religion, rather than V:TM, we're clearly moving into an area which belongs in SYM (Speak Your Mind) and out of gaming discussion.
As my comments have been ignored, this thread is closed, and both your remarks and those doing the same have been removed.
So what you are saying is, the Bible's early stories aren't to be taken literally but the later texts are?
...then write a lengthy post discussion religion, rather than V:TM, we're clearly moving into an area which belongs in SYM (Speak Your Mind) and out of gaming discussion.
As my comments have been ignored, this thread is closed, and both your remarks and those doing the same have been removed.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.