Monk vs Kensai/Mage vs Sorcerer

Sargon · Post by **Sargon** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 6:12 am

My only advice would be to lie like a dog and run like a girl.

Play both sides against each other if possible (offer to help the K/M take out the Sorc and Vice Versa). If you can get them both going in an all out fight while you "wait back until their defenses are down *nudge nudge wink wink*", you might be able to pull off a GWW+stun/quiver on both if you're quick about it, they're both visible and not illusioned, and they're close together. That's a lot of ifs :eep:

Without the ability to take out illusions and defenses, you're fighting an overwhelmingly uphill battle.

The only other thing you could do is start running, and keep running if they go after you individually (if you get away from the first Time Stop/Improved Alacrity which will reduce you to paste) - I suspect if they both work together against you, you'd be doomed. Invisibility potions and non-detection are a must, even if they only buy you a round or two.

Bring a few of every single protection potions/scrolls you possibly can, a bunch of Protection from Magic Scrolls (Consider using these offensively if that can be done...), and pray to god that they don't get off an imprisonment. Items that confer immunitys to certain effects will also be necessary.

I wouldn't expect to win in that kind of situation, but I'd still try it a few times. Make it an endurance fight as much as possible since they can run out of spells, you can only run out of HPs once

Word · Post by **Word** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:57 am

also they can't catch you. Just keep on running around the area until their protections wear off or they attack each other. Even with improved haste they can't catch you because you know where your going and you don't. They are both probably sure you don't pose a theart since they both said monks "suck". They just might take each other out anyway because they are worried about eache other more. Is the Kensai/mage dual or multied if dualed at what level?
You have hope.

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:35 am

@Word: A Kensai mage can only be a dual-classed character: you can't pick a kit with a multi-class. And he will be dualled at level 9 or 12 (that's where he gets another +1/+1 bonus. I'd personally wait until level 13 to dual, as that gives an extra 1/2 attack to a warrior

)

TC, Geert

Word · Post by **Word** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:19 pm

Good point I wasn't thinking.

King Leoric · Post by **King Leoric** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 3:28 pm

I don't think that running is much effective for the monk (does anybody know aboutmovement rate of the monk in ToB?, btw), since both of them can wear boots of speed (enough to make them faster than you) AND cast an impr haste above that (at least with kevin's boots fix)

Also, if they are good, with the bonuses of hell, (immunity to +1 weapons), and with a 6th level spell (prot from magic weapons), they can become invunerable to ALL weapons (still, keep a non-magical weapon on your inventory).

Protection from magic will be GREAT for you (lasts for 10 turns (minutes)), and a potion of invisibility and the cloak of non-detection WILL keep you invisible for 12 hours (divide by 10 in game time), so you can wait until one of them gets killed, wait for the protections to wear off, go near the survivor, put on the cloak of mirroring, and begin punching... probably that won't work if you don't make sure that your opponent has already cast a spell in that round, without improved alacrity, so that he won't be able to cast protection from magical weapons (casting time of 1) (-5 with vecna and amulet of power)

If he has the hell bonus plus prot from magical weapons, or if he is misleaded, the ONLY way that you'll be able to hit them, and thus disrupt spellcasting will be with some oil of fiery burning or some other area-damaging stuff (trow this at yourself, while wearing the cloak of mirroring and you won't suffer damage (i think!!!))

Good luck, and, again, remember that it's not cowardice to run for your life... (hehehe, poor guy...)

Tigerin · Post by **Tigerin** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 4:10 pm

I'd say just use your movement rate wisely and you can even win this thing. I don't have ToB yet so I don't know all the high level spells, BUT I know you can use your good movement rate and get out of their screen. then they waste protections as well as they'll have to fight each other and they'll waste a lot of spells!!

Just my opinion

joeblack · Post by **joeblack** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:49 am

The Game is going to start soon, wish me luck but from what i think ... i am going to lose big time maybe in the first few round ... well hope i "have" fun.

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 7:21 am

But the K/M will so severely out fight the monk though, so I think the K/M will survive. I mean with high-level hps, grandmastery, battle-oriented spells, the monk has no chance to out-run or out-melee the K/M. Boots of Speed are FASTER than monk movement rate, and monks aren't affected by the boots, so putting them on won't help.

Whirlwind (or greater whirlwind) is overrated. The K/M can get 7 attacks per round with spells and all of that, and despite the greater damage potential of your fists, the inherent weapon abilities are better. You could use them, but that would be suicide because then they would have more attacks with better weapons. I mean longsword Answerer, drops your ac by 2 and mr by 15% every round ! You're hps can't compare either, because they could go with wish, planetar, time stop, nuclear annihalation via dragon's breath , meteor swarm, and comet.

I think you're only hope is to use the special ability SMITE and knock them far away, and then whirlwind while they're down. However, if they do as I do, and put on double fireshields, you'll take 200 damage that round and you may not survive that, while they likely will (with tensors, they have ~400 hps)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:02 am

Do Fireshields stack? I would never have bothered to find that out... It's probably a bug, though. According to Kevin Dorner, Black Isle claimed that only spells whose description states they stack are supposed to stack. Too bad, since it takes away the only redeeming quality Fireshield could have had IMHO.

henhen · Post by **henhen** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:26 am

i'm not so experienced to give you any advice..just Good luck...

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:29 am

Not stacking the same fireshield. I'm talking about one red and one blue. I had no idea you could do this, until I saw Irenicus do this. I thought it was pretty ingenious, so I started doing the same.

Word · Post by **Word** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 8:59 am

good luck.

Sargon · Post by **Sargon** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 9:52 am

Heh.

G'luck, you'll need it. Don't forget to tell us all how horribly you died, or how magnificent and glorious your victory (victories?) were!

joeblack · Post by **joeblack** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:06 pm

[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: JoeBl@ck ]

Leonidas · Post by **Leonidas** » Wed Aug 01, 2001 2:25 pm

Any update on the match?

spork · Post by **spork** » Thu Aug 02, 2001 12:57 am

If I were a betting man, my money wouldn't be on the monk. Really, the monk is one of the worst classes for this sort of contest. They're built for the long rigours of adventuring, not for insta-killing. If the parties play right, the contest should be over in 5 melee rounds or less.

If it were me, I'd play a wizard-slayer/thief instead of the monk. Begin immediately by reading a time-stop scroll, kill the kensai with the Chaos shortsword on loan from Haer-Dalis (with a whirlwind attack you can drain 18 DEX in one round; works through stoneskins), and before the time-stop runs out, you should have enough time to read protection from magic. What's the sorcerer gonna do to you then? If time still remains, get the gnasher club and whirlwind-beat the sorcerer.

But like someone else said, if someone beats you to time-stop, all bets are off.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Thu Aug 02, 2001 1:07 am

When are are dualing to thief? My point is that your wizard-slayer/theif idea just isn't very workable. Also, you have to PRAY that you have the right item AND you get your timestop scroll off first.

My money would still be on the Kensai-Mage.

-Polaris

joeblack · Post by **joeblack** » Thu Aug 02, 2001 6:21 am

i lost terribly man!!!

My conclusion is ....
Monks are great for single player soloing
Monk's sux versus powerful dual classes.

Tomorrow i am having another match me versus the same sorcerer 1 vs 1. he hurled insults at me and called me a weakling. i have to win tommorrow .... Bhaal bless me!

Mekanos · Post by **Mekanos** » Thu Aug 02, 2001 7:57 am

hey joe bl@ck
who won? the sorc or the k/m

Raven Avenger · Post by **Raven Avenger** » Thu Aug 02, 2001 8:25 am

I tested to melee in time stop (I used thief's time trap: it's almost the same thing) Yeah, it works, I slashed the ennemy after the trap activated and he died when the time returned back to normal.