Ok everyone has their own thoughts on cheese and fairness and they all differ so I'd like to compare people's thoughts on this subject, remember no one is right or wrong but feel free to support your feelings.
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1: What is your definition of cheese?
2: Do you use the Staff of Magi, Celestrial Fury, Carsomyr and Cloak of reflection?
3: Preemptive buffing, ok or no ok?
4: What are your thoughts on Shadowkeeper and modifying classes? (Player character or otherwise)
5: Do you take advantage of collecting multiple unique items? (Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Ram etc?)
6: Do you use protection from magic or undead scrolls?
7: Do you use multiple traps purposely to instant kill things?
8: What mods are good?
9: Is removing the level cap while soloing fair?
10: Recharging items using the gem bag?
11: What other things are considered too powerful for normal games?
12: Hurting monsters in fog of war using area spells?
13: Spell cheese like multiple project images?
14: Summoning unlimited monsters using project image?
15: Getting unlimited experience by talking to npcs multiple times?
16: Other things you consider cheesy?
What is Cheese: Your Opinion
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Deadalready
- Posts: 903
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:37 am
- Contact:
What is Cheese: Your Opinion
Warning: logic and sense is replaced by typos and errors after 11pm
Spoiler
, it has yet to return
1) exploiting the game engine
2) yes, I use them all. They're all legal weapons, aren't they? So why not use them?
3) yes, why shouldn't a party, who spots opponents, prepare itself for the upcomming combat?
4) I use SK all the time to modify a character to my playing style. I prefer to make the character I made for myself to have its flaws, though. The Archer/Thief, for example.
5) you mean trying to get hold of two Rings of Gaxx? If so, then my answer is no.
6) never
7) of course, using traps is a perfectly legal way to kill someone. Most opponents which come from improved battles however, won't be insta-killed.
8) pfff, too much to list. Go with the well-known mods (tactics, easeofuse) and you got the good mods.
9) soloing? Never done that before, I prefer a party and the interaction.
10) I don't do that.
11) hmm, tough one, I guess reaching the end of SoA and starting with ToB when you're incredible powerful. Install tactics or Improved Battles in that case.
12) engine exploiting, I don't do that.
13) see above
14) see above
15) see above
2) yes, I use them all. They're all legal weapons, aren't they? So why not use them?
3) yes, why shouldn't a party, who spots opponents, prepare itself for the upcomming combat?
4) I use SK all the time to modify a character to my playing style. I prefer to make the character I made for myself to have its flaws, though. The Archer/Thief, for example.
5) you mean trying to get hold of two Rings of Gaxx? If so, then my answer is no.
6) never
7) of course, using traps is a perfectly legal way to kill someone. Most opponents which come from improved battles however, won't be insta-killed.
8) pfff, too much to list. Go with the well-known mods (tactics, easeofuse) and you got the good mods.
9) soloing? Never done that before, I prefer a party and the interaction.
10) I don't do that.
11) hmm, tough one, I guess reaching the end of SoA and starting with ToB when you're incredible powerful. Install tactics or Improved Battles in that case.
12) engine exploiting, I don't do that.
13) see above
14) see above
15) see above
"Sometimes Dreams are wiser than waking"
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Phantom Lord
- Posts: 877
- Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: Exiled - yet ...
- Contact:
1: What is your definition of cheese?
Abusing the engine, stuff that the programmers tried to ban but can be done by certain workarounds, e. g. using items on the surface (drow items, rift device) that should stay underground.
2: Do you use the Staff of Magi, Celestrial Fury, Carsomyr and Cloak of reflection?
Shure, that's why they're available.
3: Preemptive buffing, ok or no ok?
OK, unless you go over the top, like spike trapping spawning points. Some NPCs buff too, don't they?
4: What are your thoughts on Shadowkeeper and modifying classes? (Player character or otherwise)
That's up to the player. Some people like to experiment, since this is not a multiplayer PvP game, it's OK.
5: Do you take advantage of collecting multiple unique items? (Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Ram etc?)
No. There are enough items.
6: Do you use protection from magic or undead scrolls?
On rare occasions, but PfU for example is buggy (unkillable Kangaxx).
7: Do you use multiple traps purposely to instant kill things?
Sometimes. I instakilled Demogorgon once with multi spikes on his spawning point, found it surprisingly effective but boring. See also 3. On the other hand, setting up some traps in the area before pulling a truly suspicious lever may be considered common sense. I also think that the trap / Ring of Ram combo is perfectly legal for a thief character.
8: What mods are good?
Any that is free of bugs and keeps up the games spirit and balance.
9: Is removing the level cap while soloing fair?
That's a question of rules rather than fairness. I'd say it's fair but the rules aren't designed for characters above level 30. Uncapped small parties or uncapped solo chars likely disturb the game balance.
10: Recharging items using the gem bag?
Not OK, engine exploit.
11: What other things are considered too powerful for normal games?
Some level 10 spells (e.g. Planetar if you use the spell power and Improved Alacrity turns mages into machine guns), some spell or spell HLA combos (e.g. Chain Contigency / triple Sunfire or Shape Change mind flayer / Whirlwind attack), some of the possibilities of Simulacrum / Project Image. The Sunray items (Daystar, Helm of Brilliance) are extremely powerful as well. Finally, UAI is quite a killer, but I really like it for the fun part.
12: Hurting monsters in fog of war using area spells?
Don't do it, at least not intentionally. Stray bullets may happen of ourse.
13: Spell cheese like multiple project images?
Don't do it, although I consider them non-cheese, only bloody powerful. I'm just not the spell heavy player type.
14: Summoning unlimited monsters using project image?
Not my type of thing, see also 11 and 13.
15: Getting unlimited experience by talking to npcs multiple times?
No, exploit.
16: Other things you consider cheesy?
Doing Watcher's Keep early from BG II is cheesy somehow, because you get too powerful for the BG part of the game. Also the weapons you get there, even the ones for sale (Firetooth, Short Sword of Mask) are a little over the top in the early game. On the other hand, the containers available in WK almost make it a must to pay a visit there asap.
Abusing the engine, stuff that the programmers tried to ban but can be done by certain workarounds, e. g. using items on the surface (drow items, rift device) that should stay underground.
2: Do you use the Staff of Magi, Celestrial Fury, Carsomyr and Cloak of reflection?
Shure, that's why they're available.
3: Preemptive buffing, ok or no ok?
OK, unless you go over the top, like spike trapping spawning points. Some NPCs buff too, don't they?
4: What are your thoughts on Shadowkeeper and modifying classes? (Player character or otherwise)
That's up to the player. Some people like to experiment, since this is not a multiplayer PvP game, it's OK.
5: Do you take advantage of collecting multiple unique items? (Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Ram etc?)
No. There are enough items.
6: Do you use protection from magic or undead scrolls?
On rare occasions, but PfU for example is buggy (unkillable Kangaxx).
7: Do you use multiple traps purposely to instant kill things?
Sometimes. I instakilled Demogorgon once with multi spikes on his spawning point, found it surprisingly effective but boring. See also 3. On the other hand, setting up some traps in the area before pulling a truly suspicious lever may be considered common sense. I also think that the trap / Ring of Ram combo is perfectly legal for a thief character.
8: What mods are good?
Any that is free of bugs and keeps up the games spirit and balance.
9: Is removing the level cap while soloing fair?
That's a question of rules rather than fairness. I'd say it's fair but the rules aren't designed for characters above level 30. Uncapped small parties or uncapped solo chars likely disturb the game balance.
10: Recharging items using the gem bag?
Not OK, engine exploit.
11: What other things are considered too powerful for normal games?
Some level 10 spells (e.g. Planetar if you use the spell power and Improved Alacrity turns mages into machine guns), some spell or spell HLA combos (e.g. Chain Contigency / triple Sunfire or Shape Change mind flayer / Whirlwind attack), some of the possibilities of Simulacrum / Project Image. The Sunray items (Daystar, Helm of Brilliance) are extremely powerful as well. Finally, UAI is quite a killer, but I really like it for the fun part.
12: Hurting monsters in fog of war using area spells?
Don't do it, at least not intentionally. Stray bullets may happen of ourse.
13: Spell cheese like multiple project images?
Don't do it, although I consider them non-cheese, only bloody powerful. I'm just not the spell heavy player type.
14: Summoning unlimited monsters using project image?
Not my type of thing, see also 11 and 13.
15: Getting unlimited experience by talking to npcs multiple times?
No, exploit.
16: Other things you consider cheesy?
Doing Watcher's Keep early from BG II is cheesy somehow, because you get too powerful for the BG part of the game. Also the weapons you get there, even the ones for sale (Firetooth, Short Sword of Mask) are a little over the top in the early game. On the other hand, the containers available in WK almost make it a must to pay a visit there asap.
1: What is your definition of cheese?
Abusing flaws in the engine to your advantage
2: Do you use the Staff of Magi, Celestrial Fury, Carsomyr and Cloak of reflection?
Yes.
3: Preemptive buffing, ok or no ok?
Buffing before a fight (small or big) is smart.
4: What are your thoughts on Shadowkeeper and modifying classes? (Player character or otherwise)
Define modifying classes...
5: Do you take advantage of collecting multiple unique items? (Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Ram etc?)
Nope
6: Do you use protection from magic or undead scrolls?
Yes
7: Do you use multiple traps purposely to instant kill things?
Depends on who im using them.
8: What mods are good?
To many to list
9: Is removing the level cap while soloing fair?
Nope
10: Recharging items using the gem bag?
Sometimes.
11: What other things are considered too powerful for normal games?
Depends
12: Hurting monsters in fog of war using area spells?
Cheat
13: Spell cheese like multiple project images?
I don't use it
14: Summoning unlimited monsters using project image?
Don't use it either
15: Getting unlimited experience by talking to npcs multiple times?
Don't use it.
16: Other things you consider cheesy?
Everything is UU's guide to cheese
Abusing flaws in the engine to your advantage
2: Do you use the Staff of Magi, Celestrial Fury, Carsomyr and Cloak of reflection?
Yes.
3: Preemptive buffing, ok or no ok?
Buffing before a fight (small or big) is smart.
4: What are your thoughts on Shadowkeeper and modifying classes? (Player character or otherwise)
Define modifying classes...
5: Do you take advantage of collecting multiple unique items? (Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Ram etc?)
Nope
6: Do you use protection from magic or undead scrolls?
Yes
7: Do you use multiple traps purposely to instant kill things?
Depends on who im using them.
8: What mods are good?
To many to list
9: Is removing the level cap while soloing fair?
Nope
10: Recharging items using the gem bag?
Sometimes.
11: What other things are considered too powerful for normal games?
Depends
12: Hurting monsters in fog of war using area spells?
Cheat
13: Spell cheese like multiple project images?
I don't use it
14: Summoning unlimited monsters using project image?
Don't use it either
15: Getting unlimited experience by talking to npcs multiple times?
Don't use it.
16: Other things you consider cheesy?
Everything is UU's guide to cheese
1: Exploiting bugs, flaws in the programming/engine, skills that are known to be hugely overpowered
2: Yes, they are legit items and some of them are quite hard to get
3: Ofcourse, a good preparation is half of the job, as we say in my country. Or, we say something like it. Kinda. Sometimes, you only know you haver to buff because you died horribly the first attempt, so it's not really role-playing, but that's just how it goes...
4: Never used it, it seems a bit silly, although creating a viable dual-class character that's normally not available does sound like a challenge.
5: Tough one. The Ring of Gaxx is just so good it's hard to pass up on it. The Ring of the Ram isn't THAT good, so I don't need two.
6: Not a lot, though not on moral grounds.
7:Yes, but with decreasing satisfaction. (I would go "wow, look at his fat dragon ass die in seconds!", but now it just seems a bit... cheesy)
8: Never used any
9: Never tried it, it seems a bit pointless in ToB
10: Never tried it, don't even know how to pull it off
11: Charged items not being consumed when used by 'clones', clones in general
12: Fair enough, they don't know what hit them if you scout and stay hidden with your mage
13: I don't use it, don't feel like trying it either
14: Bug/exploit, I won't try it unless the fight is undoable otherwise.
15: Bug/exploit as well, if you want to cheat then just use SK
16: Roquefort
2: Yes, they are legit items and some of them are quite hard to get
3: Ofcourse, a good preparation is half of the job, as we say in my country. Or, we say something like it. Kinda. Sometimes, you only know you haver to buff because you died horribly the first attempt, so it's not really role-playing, but that's just how it goes...
4: Never used it, it seems a bit silly, although creating a viable dual-class character that's normally not available does sound like a challenge.
5: Tough one. The Ring of Gaxx is just so good it's hard to pass up on it. The Ring of the Ram isn't THAT good, so I don't need two.
6: Not a lot, though not on moral grounds.
7:Yes, but with decreasing satisfaction. (I would go "wow, look at his fat dragon ass die in seconds!", but now it just seems a bit... cheesy)
8: Never used any
9: Never tried it, it seems a bit pointless in ToB
10: Never tried it, don't even know how to pull it off
11: Charged items not being consumed when used by 'clones', clones in general
12: Fair enough, they don't know what hit them if you scout and stay hidden with your mage
13: I don't use it, don't feel like trying it either
14: Bug/exploit, I won't try it unless the fight is undoable otherwise.
15: Bug/exploit as well, if you want to cheat then just use SK
16: Roquefort