Dogs needing attention

[Magrus]

Today, the whole family I happen to be living with, minus my friend, all went down to Georgia as the grandfather is dying. Now, they have three dogs. I don't get along well with dogs. The oldest one is 14, and she humps stuffed animals, which is all well and good to laugh at once in a while. It's strange though.

So, these dogs happen to be just waiting in the bay window which sits in front of the driveway. Now, the last time the family took off for a few days these dogs sat on the window sill for three days straight. It's freezing out now though and seeping through the window. Both dogs are shivering they're so cold, yet they continue waiting, and barking at each and every car which drives by. They will probably be there until their favorite family members come back from their trip.

I must wonder, what genetic deficiency has been bred into these animals to make them forsake a nice, comfortable, warm place to rest and relax when it is available. Rather than sleep in a warm bed, they are on a board which is close to freezing from the cold. It boggles the mind. Cats aren't like this. I've been around wolves, and they aren't like this either, so it isn't all canines. A large number of the dogs I have been around though seem to need attention, and will do whatever they can to get it.

So, has anyone else witnessed anything like this kind of obsessive need for attention from a specific person before in dogs?

[ik911]

Yes, when we're on vacation, and we lend our dogs to neighbours, relatives or even pensions, it always loses weight, barks like all the time and stuff. The temporary owners always get quite annoyed by that and are happy to give it back when we come back, and then it's all back to normal.

Last couple of days have been really bad on her. Her rear right paw is limping. Not a fine sight. Bent back, tail down, often no longer able to jump on the couch. Probably means even more medication. She's practically deaf already, so her age (16 or 17) is really playing parts right now...

[Magrus]

I'm sorry to hear about your dog, I had to watch my first cat get leukemia and die unfortunately so I know what it's like to see your pet in pain.

[VonDondu]

That's the result of over a hundred thousand years of domestication. Dogs were pack animals even before they were domesticated, which means that they will always stick with their pack even if it leads to suffering and death. Domestication basically turned wild dogs into puppies for life, so their need for acceptance has been amplified. (Not even wolf cubs act like puppies for very long; they hardly ever bark, whimper, or whine, in contrast to practically all domestic dogs, excluding basenjis.)

Some people think that dogs are "loyal" by nature, and I suppose you could use that label if you wanted to. But the real reason why dogs stick by the people they have bonded with, whether they are treated well or treated horribly, is that they simply don't know what else to do. They're "loyal" because they have no choice. That does make dogs quite different from cats, who are willing and able to move on if the need arises.

[C Elegans]

Like Vondondu says, it's simple. Dogs like humans are group animals that are dependent on each other. Dogs will stick to owners that treat them badly, just as humans stick to partners or friends who treat them badly, due to attachment. Cats are sole living animals, they don't have that kind of attachment.

[Luis Antonio]

Dogs are like that... they keep waiting for the flock to return... you know, a cat that you poke a lot will go away eventually, or avoid those who annoy him, but not a dog. He will be there, faithfull.

My dog starts barking for me when I'm half a kilometer away, and he knows my timing to arrive/go with the car, so he waits to say goodbye and say hello.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Like Vondondu says, it's simple. Dogs like humans are group animals that are dependent on each other. Dogs will stick to owners that treat them badly, just as humans stick to partners or friends who treat them badly, due to attachment. Cats are sole living animals, they don't have that kind of attachment.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that (Along w/ Luis' post). I've also heard stories of dogs who stick around the graves of their owners if they survive them.

[VonDondu]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Cats are sole living animals, they don't have that kind of attachment.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong about that. My two kittens, who won't stay off my keyboard and my lap, would certainly disagree with you. (I'm sorry; I know that probably annoys you, but I couldn't resist.) Cats can be very attached to humans and very dependent. They also have a complex social structure in the "cat world" (which is largely defined by territorial boundaries and complex rules of interaction).

But unlike dogs, they are indeed self-reliant if no one takes care of them, and they can end their attachments and dependencies as well as if not better than humans can.

By the way, to elaborate on a point I made earlier, instead of saying that dogs and cats are like people, I'm more likely to say that some people are like cats and other people are like dogs.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

[QUOTE=VonDondu]I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong about that. My two kittens, who won't stay off my keyboard and my lap, would certainly disagree with you. (I'm sorry; I know that probably annoys you, but I couldn't resist.) Cats can be very attached to humans and very dependent. They also have a complex social structure in the "cat world" (which is largely defined by territorial boundaries and complex rules of interaction).

By the way, to elaborate on a point I made earlier, instead of saying that dogs and cats are like people, I'm more likely to say that some people are like cats and other people are like dogs. [/QUOTE]

I can concur with your first paragraph. I have one cat that will follow me to where I sit WHENEVER I come home from somewhere else and snuggle like you wouldn't believe. Sometimes he does with my dad, but he just can't get enough of me in particular.

And yes, your last paragraph has a ring of truth as well.

[C Elegans]

@VonDondu: Well, people who own pets have all sorts of interpretations regarding their pets behaviours. From an ethological (the study of animal's behaviour) point of view, dogs are a group living species, as are humans, chimps, rats and horses, whereas house cats are not. This does not mean house cats are totally asocial or socially unaware, but it is a difference.

Attachment is a behaviour that can be studied and has been studied in many different species. Cats do not have the same type of attachment as dogs have. I am sure you kittens like you in some way, but as you point out, a cat will end their attachment more readily than many humans, ie an example of what I said above: dogs and humans are group animals who develop very strong attachment, whereas house cats are more solitary animals and do not develop this type of attachment.

Humans are more like dogs in the sense that humans are also a group living species. Other than that, I think humans are not very much like neither cats nor dogs, at least not if you compare how much humans are like rats or of course other primates.

[VonDondu]

As I understand it, most "cats" (family Felidae) prefer as little interaction with other cats as possible. But lions (genus Panthera) are an exception, since they live in prides, and it was my impression that domestic cats share some of their behaviors (although they are in the genus Felis). I have observed a lot of cat group behavior at my grandmother's ranch. (They are not feral, but they aren't what we call "housecats".) While many of those cats leave the "family" presumably to lead solitary lives (particularly the males), many of them choose to remain with the group for their entire lives. I won't deny that human intervention plays a role in their behavior (my grandmother puts out food for them, and I pet them and play with them), but I can't help seeing a lot of evidence of bonding among those cats. They share meals and living spaces, and they groom each other and even nurse each others' offspring. Hence the similarity to a pride of lions.


[QUOTE=C Elegans]Humans are more like dogs in the sense that humans are also a group living species. Other than that, I think humans are not very much like neither cats nor dogs, at least not if you compare how much humans are like rats or of course other primates.[/QUOTE]
Yes, there are certainly a lot of people I would compare to apes, and others I would compare to rats.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

[QUOTE=VonDondu]Yes, there are certainly a lot of people I would compare to apes, and others I would compare to rats. [/QUOTE]

And me, I often share some behaviors with my pets (particularly when I'm around them).

Surprisingly, though, many domestic animals respond to me in far different ways than they would with other people.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=VonDondu]As I understand it, most "cats" (family Felidae) prefer as little interaction with other cats as possible. But lions (genus Panthera) are an exception, since they live in prides, and it was my impression that domestic cats share some of their behaviors (although they are in the genus Felis). I have observed a lot of cat group behavior at my grandmother's ranch. (They are not feral, but they aren't what we call "housecats".) While many of those cats leave the "family" presumably to lead solitary lives (particularly the males), many of them choose to remain with the group for their entire lives. I won't deny that human intervention plays a role in their behavior (my grandmother puts out food for them, and I pet them and play with them), but I can't help seeing a lot of evidence of bonding among those cats. They share meals and living spaces, and they groom each other and even nurse each others' offspring. Hence the similarity to a pride of lions.[/QUOTE]

I would concur with this. I have had my two cats since they were both kittens, I brought them home the same day. Since they arrived simultaneously as young kittens, I think there has been far less of an inclination to fight over territory. Indeed, these two are deeply bonded to one another. They will playfight, and then end up curled together in a chair or basket soon afterwards. When one went missing for a few days, the other was lost. The entire time the female was gone, the male walked around the apartment mieowing, and gave every impression of actively looking for her.
They also always seem to eat together, though they can eat anytime.

While I love cats for their independence, I also believe that this aspect of cats has been somewhat overstated. My cats insist on always being in the same room with me, and they generally seek out one another's company as well.

[C Elegans]

I can't help seeing a lot of evidence of bonding among those cats. They share meals and living spaces, and they groom each other and even nurse each others' offspring. Hence the similarity to a pride of lions.

House cats are certainly more similar to other Felidae than to Panthera, but again, this is not to say all Felidae are totally asocial. House cats have been observed to be able to live in colonies and tolerate each other, even help each other just as you describe, and perhaps even develop some bonding to each other although not as strong and lasting as group living animals attachment to each other is.

Yes, there are certainly a lot of people I would compare to apes, and others I would compare to rats.

Many apes are far better creatures than humans in my opinion. Mountain gorillas and bonobos especially. Rats are also a generally less destructive and cruel species than many humans. They certainly don't torment or kill each other or other species because they find it entertaining. That makes them more likable than many humans.

[VonDondu]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Many apes are far better creatures than humans in my opinion. Mountain gorillas and bonobos especially. Rats are also a generally less destructive and cruel species than many humans...[/QUOTE]
Of course. When I made those comparisons, I meant no offense to rats and apes.

(This stuff writes itself, you know.)

[nael]

[QUOTE=VonDondu]As I understand it, most "cats" (family Felidae) prefer as little interaction with other cats as possible. But lions (genus Panthera) are an exception, since they live in prides, and it was my impression that domestic cats share some of their behaviors (although they are in the genus Felis). I have observed a lot of cat group behavior at my grandmother's ranch. (They are not feral, but they aren't what we call "housecats".) While many of those cats leave the "family" presumably to lead solitary lives (particularly the males), many of them choose to remain with the group for their entire lives. I won't deny that human intervention plays a role in their behavior (my grandmother puts out food for them, and I pet them and play with them), but I can't help seeing a lot of evidence of bonding among those cats. They share meals and living spaces, and they groom each other and even nurse each others' offspring. Hence the similarity to a pride of lions.



Yes, there are certainly a lot of people I would compare to apes, and others I would compare to rats. [/QUOTE]


I volunteer probably about 20 hours a month with a local animal shelter dealing specifically with cats- doing adoptions and socializing them with people and ther cats. I've been doing that for about 3 years now, and I can definitely say that cats enjoy having other cats around. it takes about 2-3 weeks of hissing and hiding, but once the pecking order is set, they get along great, with lots of grooming and sleeping together and such. in those three years, i have only had one cat come through that seemed to genuinely hate other cats, everyone else has adjusted fine.

[Magrus]

I assumed the behavior from dogs I've witnessed has been because of their domestication considering what I've witnessed with wolves. I've never gotten along with dogs, I've only met one German Shepherd that hasn't tried to drag me to the ground and tear me apart. I get along well with most larger dogs aside from them though. Perhaps it's my attitude, they pick up on it and react to it? I don't know.

I love giving attention, when I'm in the mood for it. However, when someone ends up demanding something from me, I tend to be less apt to give it than if I suddenly feel the urge to do so. Having a dog constantly underfoot and wanting food, wanting to be pet, wanting to go outside, wanting to bark at everything that talks/walks/moves/makes noise/ etc., makes me want to step on them the next time they happen to wander right under me.

Cats generally don't do that unless there is some reason for them to be thrilled with your presense. My cat does occasionally climb all over me, and follow me around. Thats when I finally get to go back to my mothers for a week though and she hasn't seen me in months, or I get her a special treat and she decides to be all lovy and cuddly after.

I have however noticed cats thrive with other cats in the house. You'll have your problems with dominance, and they'll probably make all sorts of noise and trouble. However, they tend to get more exercise, are healthier and happier. My mother hates anything that makes a mess, so we never had any dogs, and I had to hide a cat in the house to get her to accept having a pet at first. She always said no, so I just went and got one anyways and hid it in my room until she found out and didn't have the heart to put it outside in the cold. She (my cat) ends up depressed and lonely without another cat around and everyone working and when my brother and I were in school.

Both want attention, a cat with nothing to do especially. However, you put two or more cats together, or have an outdoor cat, chances are it would be just fine without you. Also, I've yet to see a dog not on a farm which was trained to keep other animals out try and catch pests that come into the house. Cats, they'll generally attack whatever comes into view. Dogs will bark at anyone coming into the house that they don't know yes, sometimes attack them. They do this to protect their family, that whole "pack" mentality. Cats don't do this normally, they either just look at the stranger, or hiss and walk away. They also seem to assume that the house they live in is theirs, not the humans who feed them. Dogs, aren't like that. They're protective of their humans and where they reside, but don't seem to have that "I'm superior and I own everything around me" attitude. Maybe that is just because, so long as a cat is exposed to living outside while growing up, it CAN survive on its own when it develops its hunting skills.

The cat with my mother, yes, it would die. Outside is dirty, so cat doesn't go outside and come back into my mothers house. My friend has a few cats, and took in a blind stray female, who happened to get pregnant from one of the other cats, so now they have a TON of cats. They all attack anything moving, the older cats have taught the younger ones to hunt. It's wild watching them "hunt" each other for practice as kittens. I haven't seen anything like this with dogs either.

[VonDondu]

[QUOTE=Magrus]My cat does occasionally climb all over me, and follow me around. Thats when I finally get to go back to my mothers for a week though and she hasn't seen me in months, or I get her a special treat and she decides to be all lovy and cuddly after.[/QUOTE]
It's usually the other way around. That is to say, a cat will snuggle up to you and try to get your attention until you feed her. Then she goes on her merry way. That's called "schmoozing", and it's a kind of behavior that humans, particularly persistent young males, are also very good at.

"You love me, so feed me. You LOVE me."


[QUOTE=Magrus]Dogs will bark at anyone coming into the house that they don't know yes, sometimes attack them. They do this to protect their family, that whole "pack" mentality. Cats don't do this normally, they either just look at the stranger, or hiss and walk away...[/QUOTE]
Small dogs tend to bark when they hear someone outside but hide if someone they don't know comes into the house. (Although they tend to be more brave when they can hide behind your coattails, of course.) How a cat reacts to a stranger depends on the individual cat. Most of the cats I've had would hide in the shadows and keep an eye on the "intruder". If one of my cats or dogs or I were to be attacked, I'm sure that any of the male cats I've had would have come running and attacked the intruder, even if it were a large dog. I have scars on my shin from one such encounter in which I unfortunately got caught in the middle.


[QUOTE=Magrus]so long as a cat is exposed to living outside while growing up, it CAN survive on its own when it develops its hunting skills.[/QUOTE]
Pampered cats who are thrown into the wild might be able to hunt for food, but they are more likely to eat out of garbage cans to survive.


[QUOTE=Magrus]the older cats have taught the younger ones to hunt. It's wild watching them "hunt" each other for practice as kittens. I haven't seen anything like this with dogs either.[/QUOTE]
Older cats will bring kittens (and their owners) small animals to play with. Dead mice and birds aren't so bad once you get used to them, but live lizards always freaked out my mother.

[oozae]

I am a dog person, I have a German Shepherd, she is big but is such a scaredy cat, she tends to be most frightened of small dogs. And when my mum isn't at home she cries. She was the runt of the litter, when she was born she almost died but my uncle Steven fixed her up, oh and she spewed, but I love her anyways.

Once I was over at my uncle Grants (I have tons of aunties, uncles and cousins) and there was a cat that had a bunch of kittens, but this other cat was really territorial and killed all of the poor wittle kittens. So we dealed with it the only reasonable way, we shot the damn mangy cat. And so concludes the amazingly heart-touching story of Oozae and his pets