Troika's gonzo

ColonCowboy · Post by **ColonCowboy** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:18 am

That totally sucks.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/35886

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:25 pm

This doesn't belong in GameBanshee Discussion (which is about the management of the forum) but RPG Discussion, so I'm taking the liberty of moving it.

ColonCowboy · Post by **ColonCowboy** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:44 pm

Fine, but I posted it in a general discussion forum. This is a general discussion topic.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:00 pm

What it says for the GameBanshee Discussion forum is, "If you'd like to comment on any of the announcements or if there is something you want added, altered, or removed from GameBanshee or these forums, this is where you'd post it." So it's a forum to discuss the other forums.

This is the place to comment on RPG doings, like Troika's closing. If you're annoyed because you don't think it will get enough attention, I can move it to the very popular SYM (Speak Your Mind), our general, all-purpose spam/serious forum, but chances are it'll get pretty severely spammed before long and end up as a discussion of drinking habits or Etruscan vases. Your chioce.

ColonCowboy · Post by **ColonCowboy** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:17 pm

fair enough, you da boss. You can place it where ever you like.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:20 pm

Either place, honestly. Here, or SYM. It's up to you. Both are accurate places for it.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:34 pm

Getting back on topic - can this be confirmed through mainstream game news sites? I haven't seen anything around the traps as yet, just linkbacks to the post on No Mutants Allowed.

Cheers,
TGHO

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:22 am

Confirmed by GameSpot.com here.

Post by **BuckGB** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:03 pm

Yes, this is true. We've unfortunately lost one of the only game developers out there that is willing to create RPGs exclusively for the PC. I know a lot of people found their games to be buggy, but Arcanum and Bloodlines easily made my personal list of all-time favorites. It's my opinion that Troika's closure will negatively impact RPG development for years to come.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:09 pm

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]Yes, this is true. We've unfortunately lost one of the only game developers out there that is willing to create RPGs exclusively for the PC. I know a lot of people found their games to be buggy, but Arcanum and Bloodlines easily made my personal list of all-time favorites. It's my opinion that Troika's closure will negatively impact RPG development for years to come.[/QUOTE]

Aye.

The Temple of Elemental Evil had its strongpoints as well. Unfortunately, the Circle of Eight will have to be relied on for their mods & fixes.

Co8's good at what they do, but that may be a lot more work for them if any big requests or whatnot are made.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:01 pm

Let us all stand in a minute's silence for the passing of one of our own. Raise your glasses in a toast and bow your heads in thanks for their bounty, as provided by the people of Troika. Troika is dead, we salute your memory.

<1 minute later>

It is a sad thing, especially the comment made by Leon "we couldn't get a publisher to fund any of our titles". What is the PC gaming world coming to, when you can get all sorts of drekk made, but quality RPGs are so few and far between.

Here's hoping the Troika Three move on to other jobs within the industry, and provide us with some more excellent RPGs one day.

Cheers,
TGHO

txa1265 · Post by **txa1265** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:13 am

[QUOTE=The Great Hairy]It is a sad thing, especially the comment made by Leon "we couldn't get a publisher to fund any of our titles". What is the PC gaming world coming to, when you can get all sorts of drekk made, but quality RPGs are so few and far between.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the comments about getting drekk made, but Troika had a reputation of making and releasing buggy games and expecting the publish to pay them to fix those problems.

I'm attaching the other comments below ...

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]I know a lot of people found their games to be buggy, but Arcanum and Bloodlines easily made my personal list of all-time favorites.[/QUOTE]I agree - ToEE was a very good dungeon crawler, but Arcanum and Bloodlines are two of my all-time faves as well. But the bugginess of their games really had an impact - each successive game sold about half as much as the previous one. Even Bloodlines - 72,000 copies?!?!? For a game *that* good?!?! Amazing ...

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]It's my opinion that Troika's closure will negatively impact RPG development for years to come.[/QUOTE]Possibly - but as mentioned above, if it is a cautionary tale about releasing buggy games - or supporting them properly - then maybe it is a lesson that needed to be learned. Look at Sacred - it was as buggy as ToEE on release, but a few months later it was in great shape, due to excellent developer support. It does sadden me to think that great, creative games like Bloodlines and Arcanum may not be made ...

Mike

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:37 pm

[QUOTE=txa1265]

Even Bloodlines - 72,000 copies?!?!? For a game *that* good?!?! Amazing ...
[/QUOTE]

Bloodlines only sold 72K copies? Wow. I had not realized the game had faired that poorly. It had been my impression that it was moderately successful. That's unfortunate.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:02 pm

72,000 isn't bad for an RPG at all. But if you go over-budget, that can eat up whatever profit you would have made, quickly.

Faust · Post by **Faust** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:37 pm

[QUOTE=fable]72,000 isn't bad for an RPG at all. But if you go over-budget, that can eat up whatever profit you would have made, quickly.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the clarification. It occurred to me after hearing the initial figure and making the trite post about it, that I really have no clue as to what a *good number* is for a CRPG or PC game, period. I suppose 72K is probably not too horrible, considering that the game has only been out six month and it bears a mature rating (and, certainly, they left no room for interpretation with this game...). I had hoped to see another VtM or VtR title down the road. I suppose with Troika gone, its less likely now.

Post by **BuckGB** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:08 pm

I just posted this newsbit:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/static/ ... rZygix.php

From the sounds of it, Temple of Elemental Evil may have done considerably better than the figures provided on GameDAILY. Vampire: Bloodlines' sales will no doubt increase over the coming months too, as mainstream computers slowly reach the game's steep hardware requirements.

txa1265 · Post by **txa1265** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:14 am

Yes, from the GameBiz article:
"Boyarsky, Cain and Anderson formed Troika in 1998 after leaving
Interplay where they created the classic RPG Fallout. Troika only created
three games in the past six years: Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick
Obscura (2001), The Temple of Elemental Evil (2003) and Vampire: The
Masquerade - Bloodlines (2004). These games catered to the niche RPG
market, and although most were well received critically, the titles simply
failed to generate enough revenue for the studio to survive. Arcanum was
the company's best selling game, and it only managed to sell 234K units
and generate sales of $8.8 million, according to the NPD Group. It was
downhill from there; The Temple of Elemental Evil sold 128K units ($5.2
million) and Bloodlines sold a paltry 72K units ($3.4 million). It didn't help
either that Bloodlines, which was published by Activision and powered by
the Source/Half-Life 2 engine, was released at the same time as Valve's
blockbuster first-person shooter sequel"

I still find it hard to believe that one of objectively the best games of the year - and certainly the best RPG - could sell so little. I guess, as was said in a Resident Cynic article, that people would rather play the new version of the same old thing they are already playing than try somthing different and unique ...

Mike

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:29 am

I have problems with those sales figures, as well. Granted, the game immediately acquired a reputation for killer bugs, and the Gothic sub-genre probably ruled out some RPG fans who would have jumped at the endless stream of elves, dwarves, and orcs, but less than TOEE...? That's frankly unbelievable. I'd like to know the source of those figures, before accepting them.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:06 pm

I'd like to know what they were doing with all that money, too. They weren't a large development house, from what I recall, and their outgoings can't have been so large in five years.

Cheers,
TGHO

Post by **BuckGB** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:51 pm

Those are gross totals. I'm totally guessing here, but I doubt Troika saw more than 30-40% of that revenue. Considering Vampire: Bloodlines had a development time of close to two years, and with 30+ members working on it during its busiest period, that doesn't leave much of a profit even if they were all making a below average salary.