[QUOTE=Pardoz]While most of the crystals are random, there's one guaranteed silver crystal in the game [/QUOTE]
Not necessarily true, actually. My last couple times through the game, that crystal was viridian.
Don't play as a Dark Consular - It's a Joke (Spoilerish)
Rpg?
[QUOTE=PersuAzN]I agree with you there.. the game has no challange.
Even if you are a light side Jedi Consular/Jedi Master, you'll still own every single person.. Theres one thing Prince Thrash left out...
You see you don't get batter at Kotor with technique... just time. No challange, near the end of the game you become UBER God-Like Jedi. No matter what position you play.... Weapon Master, Watchman, Sith Assasin, who ever. you still become UBER Jedi. My combat Jedi Master kills a room 1 hit no problem. Clears a room up like a breeze. My Sith Lord and Jedi Master clears room with Force Wave.. Force Storm.. thats it. Force Crush leaves your opponent no time to get away.. even wen they save, they still get affected by it.
I dont mean to down KOTOR, but theres no challange... You become better with time. If you are looking for a real RPG, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy, etc, look there... This RPG is kinda newbish wen it comes to technique and skill.[/QUOTE]
Actually (I know I'm going to get flamed like an all-beef patty for this), but if you want to play a real CRPG you have to have a PC. I have an XBox and a PS2, but console RPGs (although some are a lot of fun) just don't have the depth that PC RPGs do. Morrowind, Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale, Fallout...those were RPGs. Real RPGs have a level of UI complexity that requires a mouse and a hi-res display. Period.
I agree, though. If they're gonna let you get to level 30+ they should give you some opponents that can match you. Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Traya should have each been at least level 25 with bad@$$ sabers...
[QUOTE=PersuAzN]I agree with you there.. the game has no challange.
Even if you are a light side Jedi Consular/Jedi Master, you'll still own every single person.. Theres one thing Prince Thrash left out...
You see you don't get batter at Kotor with technique... just time. No challange, near the end of the game you become UBER God-Like Jedi. No matter what position you play.... Weapon Master, Watchman, Sith Assasin, who ever. you still become UBER Jedi. My combat Jedi Master kills a room 1 hit no problem. Clears a room up like a breeze. My Sith Lord and Jedi Master clears room with Force Wave.. Force Storm.. thats it. Force Crush leaves your opponent no time to get away.. even wen they save, they still get affected by it.
I dont mean to down KOTOR, but theres no challange... You become better with time. If you are looking for a real RPG, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy, etc, look there... This RPG is kinda newbish wen it comes to technique and skill.[/QUOTE]
Actually (I know I'm going to get flamed like an all-beef patty for this), but if you want to play a real CRPG you have to have a PC. I have an XBox and a PS2, but console RPGs (although some are a lot of fun) just don't have the depth that PC RPGs do. Morrowind, Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale, Fallout...those were RPGs. Real RPGs have a level of UI complexity that requires a mouse and a hi-res display. Period.
I agree, though. If they're gonna let you get to level 30+ they should give you some opponents that can match you. Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Traya should have each been at least level 25 with bad@$$ sabers...
Art may imitate life, but life imitates TV.
Put your settings on hard... and on thing that I've noticed, is that if you level up by using an xp cheat, the enemies level up as well... while their damage ratings may not go any higher, their hit points quadriple. Which makes for some interesting battles.
Still, RPG's on the consoles are far to droll, and cookie-cutter. Anime style characters, teenagers saving the world while everyone else looks on, bland and fairly pathetic love stories thrown in for good measure. The last "console" RPG I played was Final Fantasy 8, after that, I've lost all faith in SquareSoft. All I have to do is look at screen shots for ANY of their new Final Fantasy games, and its called here we go again. Same bland styling of characters, same bland storyline with the gay lil love story worked in. OOooh the cutscenes look AWESOME *yawn* . Morrowind was prehaps the best RPG ever made, simply because it allowed you to do WHATEVER you wanted, save for raping, and being a pimp. Anything else was AOK. Including making your character into a Vampire, or a were-wolf.
I think that SW needs a rpg like that. I prefer the stuff set back in the KOTOR time simply because its far more interesting, and hasn't had Lucas' senility touch added to it. Its only too easy if you're worried about killing. Its interesting if you're worried about story, and story folks, is what makes a Star Wars game.
Still, RPG's on the consoles are far to droll, and cookie-cutter. Anime style characters, teenagers saving the world while everyone else looks on, bland and fairly pathetic love stories thrown in for good measure. The last "console" RPG I played was Final Fantasy 8, after that, I've lost all faith in SquareSoft. All I have to do is look at screen shots for ANY of their new Final Fantasy games, and its called here we go again. Same bland styling of characters, same bland storyline with the gay lil love story worked in. OOooh the cutscenes look AWESOME *yawn* . Morrowind was prehaps the best RPG ever made, simply because it allowed you to do WHATEVER you wanted, save for raping, and being a pimp. Anything else was AOK. Including making your character into a Vampire, or a were-wolf.
I think that SW needs a rpg like that. I prefer the stuff set back in the KOTOR time simply because its far more interesting, and hasn't had Lucas' senility touch added to it. Its only too easy if you're worried about killing. Its interesting if you're worried about story, and story folks, is what makes a Star Wars game.
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Jon_Irenicus
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:50 pm
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Well it wouldn't take a genious to see that the second game would not be as enjoyable as the first one. It's not only about KOTOR1 having a better story and a longer plot. KOTOR1 was also the first 3rd edition based Star Wars themed RPG. We wanted to level up our characters and pick force powers and those cool feats. We wanted to dual wield light sabers and plow through enemies.
But that was because all of it was original (in a sense). KOTOR2 is basically the same game, there are some additions, but none of them give the game enough thrill to make it as good. There are new toys, some new force powers, a couple of feats (none of them interesting) and that's about it. The stroy is not as good and the NPCs are generally crap.
Probably in the future we won't consider any game that is not like Morrowind (with that much freedom and being able to stay away from the main plot and still enjoy the game) a RPG. Third person action adventures will probably become RPG-like, with the leveling up and building your own character system (there is a game called Demon Stone that pretty much displays what I'm trying to explain here).
It is also really sad that areas in KOTOR2 are SMALLER compared to KOTOR1. You land on Nar Shaddaa, presumably a large planet populated by all sorts of people, and all you get to see is three areas, each with 3-4 streets. I know, we're landing on a small part of the planet, but compare that to the HUGE landscape of Morrowind... Even Kashyyk (sp) is probably bigger than any planet on KOTOR2.
But that was because all of it was original (in a sense). KOTOR2 is basically the same game, there are some additions, but none of them give the game enough thrill to make it as good. There are new toys, some new force powers, a couple of feats (none of them interesting) and that's about it. The stroy is not as good and the NPCs are generally crap.
Probably in the future we won't consider any game that is not like Morrowind (with that much freedom and being able to stay away from the main plot and still enjoy the game) a RPG. Third person action adventures will probably become RPG-like, with the leveling up and building your own character system (there is a game called Demon Stone that pretty much displays what I'm trying to explain here).
It is also really sad that areas in KOTOR2 are SMALLER compared to KOTOR1. You land on Nar Shaddaa, presumably a large planet populated by all sorts of people, and all you get to see is three areas, each with 3-4 streets. I know, we're landing on a small part of the planet, but compare that to the HUGE landscape of Morrowind... Even Kashyyk (sp) is probably bigger than any planet on KOTOR2.
Walk among them... these beasts that are less than you are. See their strength, see how easily you fall to their muscle and skill. Why do you stand for this, why do you submit to the flesh when death is bred in your bones?
the other thing you have too look at Jon, is the length of the dev cycle. It was less than two years from the release of KOTOR to the release of KOTOR 2. They hadn't even seen any reviews of KOTOR when they began work on KOTOR2. That, and its a continuation of the story from KOTOR 1. Its story is solid, a lot darker, not as much humor, and really gives you a sense of dread as you play through it. Granted, I think that the characters could have been a bit deeper, and a lil more fleshed out, but I can over look that because of the dev length. Had this game had nearly 4 years like KOTOR did, then I would have been damned disappointed, and would have been dogging this game like I dog right-winged religious idiots, minus the shotgun of course.
All in all, it was a enjoyable game. Just wish that it was larger, even larger than the first. I mean I would have liked there to be different planets than Dantooine and Korriban again, but I see how it fit in the story line. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Coruscant. Or Alderaan, or a visit to Kataar, or return to Kashyyk, or even possibly, Corelia. There's hundreds of thousands of choices. Maybe KOTOR 3 will use the new Neverwinter Nights 2 engine, which I must say is starting to look primo. If that would be the case... imagine the scale of the game... it would be HUGE. And you know what's really sad, is that I prefer these two games over the last two movies...
All in all, it was a enjoyable game. Just wish that it was larger, even larger than the first. I mean I would have liked there to be different planets than Dantooine and Korriban again, but I see how it fit in the story line. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Coruscant. Or Alderaan, or a visit to Kataar, or return to Kashyyk, or even possibly, Corelia. There's hundreds of thousands of choices. Maybe KOTOR 3 will use the new Neverwinter Nights 2 engine, which I must say is starting to look primo. If that would be the case... imagine the scale of the game... it would be HUGE. And you know what's really sad, is that I prefer these two games over the last two movies...
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Jon_Irenicus
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:50 pm
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I wasn't awareo f the development time, so that's a new perspective, and what you say is pretty solid and right. Let me face it, when I finished KOTOR1, all I wanted was a few more enemies, a few more levels and basically some more gaming time. And needless to say, KOTOR2 delivers that.
It would really be cool if they shrugged off this "quasi third person shooter" feel of the game and started following the serious RPG style (BG2, NWN2, or engines similar to them). Unfortunately that means they will have to sacrifice these cool moves we enjoy so much, so I'm sure they will not follow that path (but it would be cool if they could make the game a bit more of a serious RPG). And yes, we'll probably NEED larger space in general, I don't think anyone will swallow the "stuck in a few streets of this huge planet" idea anymore (having also played Vampire Bloodlines, which has similar "too little space" problems, I can probably say I'll not play another game released on similar terms).
Of course, I believe they will HAVE to improve stuff A LOT if there's going to be a KOTOR3. There's something risky (for the creators) about KOTOR2: it's replayability is far superior compared to KOTOR1 (and that's not just because of random treasure and higher level limit). Certain battles still give you quite a good thrill even when you play them for the 4th time (attack on Onderon is probably the best example). This is why KOTOR3 will need big improvements: my hunger for this style of game is sated now (of course, I do not know about players in general, but I'm assuming I'm a part of the group called players in general, so I guess I'm respresenting a short portion of that group).
Anyway, we'll probably get a moderator hammer on our heads (just checked the initial title of the original post
) but a good discussion going here.
It would really be cool if they shrugged off this "quasi third person shooter" feel of the game and started following the serious RPG style (BG2, NWN2, or engines similar to them). Unfortunately that means they will have to sacrifice these cool moves we enjoy so much, so I'm sure they will not follow that path (but it would be cool if they could make the game a bit more of a serious RPG). And yes, we'll probably NEED larger space in general, I don't think anyone will swallow the "stuck in a few streets of this huge planet" idea anymore (having also played Vampire Bloodlines, which has similar "too little space" problems, I can probably say I'll not play another game released on similar terms).
Of course, I believe they will HAVE to improve stuff A LOT if there's going to be a KOTOR3. There's something risky (for the creators) about KOTOR2: it's replayability is far superior compared to KOTOR1 (and that's not just because of random treasure and higher level limit). Certain battles still give you quite a good thrill even when you play them for the 4th time (attack on Onderon is probably the best example). This is why KOTOR3 will need big improvements: my hunger for this style of game is sated now (of course, I do not know about players in general, but I'm assuming I'm a part of the group called players in general, so I guess I'm respresenting a short portion of that group).
Anyway, we'll probably get a moderator hammer on our heads (just checked the initial title of the original post
) but a good discussion going here.Walk among them... these beasts that are less than you are. See their strength, see how easily you fall to their muscle and skill. Why do you stand for this, why do you submit to the flesh when death is bred in your bones?