Neutralizing casters is an important part of a tactical RPG like Icewind Dale II and can many times be the difference between winning and loosing a battle.
Reading this and other forums there seems to be a four basic methods of dealing with casters. Please tell me which basic method you prefer and provide specific strategies if possible.
Spell Resistance: You simply ignore casters because they can't hurt you.
Melee Death: You send a melee character deep into enemy territory and kill the casters. This would also include sneak attack and summons. What kind of characters and builds do you use for this strategy.
Kill casters with your casters: This would include direct damage spells and using a decoy and nuke strategy. Which spells do you use for this strategy?
Disable casters with spells: You don't kill the enemy caster, but you prevent them from casting spells. Which spells do you use for this strategy.
My personal favorite has been simply killing enemy casters with spells, but I am having fun exploring disabling spells. Charm seems to work better on non-casters, but Beltyn's Burning Blood has turned out to be an awesome spell. Caster's often fail their fortitude save, go berzerk, and suicide charge my fighters.
Neutralizing Casters Strategy
I usually cast web, entangle, stinking cloud or grease to slow enemy fighters then concentrate my missile attacks on the casters while my casters do area damage. I found I am able to quickly take them out and most fighters die before they can get to my party. A few summons or charms thrown in the mix work well to add some fun carnage.
Sometimes sending in a tank doesn't always work, though. Either they can get killed or surrounded by the enemy caster's allies, so their initial job of whacking said caster gets pretty tough. The Beastmaster is one of these notables with allies that can surround you and do some serious damage. I prefer negating the enemy caster right away with magic.
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My views and general/common tactics under the respective headings are:
Spell Resistance: Generally not my prefered choice, since getting SR for most character races are not easy, and the spell resistance from spells are only available from high level spells, which can possibly be countered by Dispell and similar spells. Although another alternative that might fall into this group would be to stack up fire resistance say, when you are quite sure the enemy would be dropping a fireball.
Melee Death: I generally do only one thing here... sneak in with a character and Sneak Attack the casters as the rest of the party charges in. Of course, in scripted events this is quite annoying unworkable. I have a strong dislike against sending in tanks, unless I really have no other choice.
Kill casters with your casters: Generally, yes. But rather than use character specific spells, I generally drop a Fireball. Poor Reflex and low HP generally means that it does well enough to disable (correction: killed) all, but the "bosses". Which might call for a Vitrolic Sphere.. or Disentigration.
Disable casters with spells: A high on the list, but usually saved for "boss fights" (using a strategy too often brings out the fun for trying out new ones
). And the practically sure-fire spell for this is the 5th level Cleric spell Insect Plague, that allows no saves. Never has it "Spell-resisted", ie. getting the target immune to spell message, as I have noticed before, and a good spell against situations when horded by enemy clerics, or where the casters have some spell resistance/immunities, or when the extra AC from your clerics help when your party is annoying placed at the "center" of a ring of enemies.. others like Web, as noted are good spells too.
Combining a Fireball, and Insect Plague bomb, while the meleers line up in front of the group is common approach. This might be preceeded with a Vitrolic Sphere, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere or Disentigration spell launced at the caster (if one or maybe two), which if works, has the aforementioned spells saved for the next encounter, or later within the same one.
Spell Resistance: Generally not my prefered choice, since getting SR for most character races are not easy, and the spell resistance from spells are only available from high level spells, which can possibly be countered by Dispell and similar spells. Although another alternative that might fall into this group would be to stack up fire resistance say, when you are quite sure the enemy would be dropping a fireball.
Melee Death: I generally do only one thing here... sneak in with a character and Sneak Attack the casters as the rest of the party charges in. Of course, in scripted events this is quite annoying unworkable. I have a strong dislike against sending in tanks, unless I really have no other choice.
Kill casters with your casters: Generally, yes. But rather than use character specific spells, I generally drop a Fireball. Poor Reflex and low HP generally means that it does well enough to disable (correction: killed) all, but the "bosses". Which might call for a Vitrolic Sphere.. or Disentigration.
Disable casters with spells: A high on the list, but usually saved for "boss fights" (using a strategy too often brings out the fun for trying out new ones
). And the practically sure-fire spell for this is the 5th level Cleric spell Insect Plague, that allows no saves. Never has it "Spell-resisted", ie. getting the target immune to spell message, as I have noticed before, and a good spell against situations when horded by enemy clerics, or where the casters have some spell resistance/immunities, or when the extra AC from your clerics help when your party is annoying placed at the "center" of a ring of enemies.. others like Web, as noted are good spells too.Combining a Fireball, and Insect Plague bomb, while the meleers line up in front of the group is common approach. This might be preceeded with a Vitrolic Sphere, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere or Disentigration spell launced at the caster (if one or maybe two), which if works, has the aforementioned spells saved for the next encounter, or later within the same one.
Okay, here is how I deal with casters:
Usually my party consist 2 tanks, Wizard, Healer, Rogue and Ranger. Notice that tanks are usually Fighters/Barbarians/Palladins. My rogue and ranger both uses bows or crossbows, so I order both of them to shoot any casters I see, mostly so that both have their own targets. I know this isn't best way to kill those casters fast, but this way I have higher chance to disturb spells, so with a bit of luck they can't cast a single spell. My healer and Wizard have also slings as weapon, so if there is no need of casting spells, both can join the rogue and ranger and keep shooting casters. In a meanwhile my tanks are hacking melee monsters
Usually my party consist 2 tanks, Wizard, Healer, Rogue and Ranger. Notice that tanks are usually Fighters/Barbarians/Palladins. My rogue and ranger both uses bows or crossbows, so I order both of them to shoot any casters I see, mostly so that both have their own targets. I know this isn't best way to kill those casters fast, but this way I have higher chance to disturb spells, so with a bit of luck they can't cast a single spell. My healer and Wizard have also slings as weapon, so if there is no need of casting spells, both can join the rogue and ranger and keep shooting casters. In a meanwhile my tanks are hacking melee monsters
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silverdragon72
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I'm currently playing with party that consist of 4 Dwarf fighter. I noticed that with such party I had to alter my tactics. The main tactic I use is to move every char near casters and kill them before I even look at other monsters. When I'm killing them melee, casters can't use area-spells like web, fireball or such, so they are quite helpless. After casters are dead, I concentrate melee monsters leaving archers alone, cause I've noticed that arrows don't do much harm to my characters.
If the situation is so bad that the way to casters is blocked by melee mosnters, I use two of my fighters to shoot arrows and bolts to casters while the other two are clearing the way.
If the situation is so bad that the way to casters is blocked by melee mosnters, I use two of my fighters to shoot arrows and bolts to casters while the other two are clearing the way.
"As we all know, holy men were born during Christmas...
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
tbh i've not that many problems w/ enemy casters.
1. Melee Death: in the early game it's just a simple matter of everyone targeting them, tanks charge, rest of party provides missle support, maybe low level spell attacks.
2. Kill casters with your casters: in the middle game very few enemy mages can stand up to concentrated fireballs from several party casters + plus whatever area blast spells the cleric can come up with.
later it's easy enough to disintigrate, fod, wob each preys on the casters weak fort saves, and can be somewhat funny as fights are usually over quicker than their buildups would suggest.
3. Spell Resistance looks good on paper but seemingly can let you down just when you need it the most. even if you have the best saves, spell resisitance, ect ect. sooner or later something will get through that. (usually w/ fatal results) i'm reminded of my dwarven palladin in the hof final battle, yadda yadda casted "destruction" on him and i'm laughing it off thinking i've got the best saves ever and SR, suddenly he's gone. poof. -- also i'm usually disagreeable to creating a party w/ sr in mind, as it involves heavy ecl.
short version -> SR is nice as is evasion, but they shouldn't be relied on. other tactics will be more successful.
+ while you are ignoring the casters, they are still casting, some of the stuff they do (buff, summon ect) will impact you if you let them continue to get away w/ it.
4. Disable casters with spells: least fave. imho it's just not efficient when compared to the top two. i could waste a few spells and kill the caster(s) or i could waste a few spells and still have to kill them, using 1 or 2 above. instead i tend to use disable spels vs melee opponents in paticular some of the swarm attacks.
1. Melee Death: in the early game it's just a simple matter of everyone targeting them, tanks charge, rest of party provides missle support, maybe low level spell attacks.
2. Kill casters with your casters: in the middle game very few enemy mages can stand up to concentrated fireballs from several party casters + plus whatever area blast spells the cleric can come up with.
later it's easy enough to disintigrate, fod, wob each preys on the casters weak fort saves, and can be somewhat funny as fights are usually over quicker than their buildups would suggest.
3. Spell Resistance looks good on paper but seemingly can let you down just when you need it the most. even if you have the best saves, spell resisitance, ect ect. sooner or later something will get through that. (usually w/ fatal results) i'm reminded of my dwarven palladin in the hof final battle, yadda yadda casted "destruction" on him and i'm laughing it off thinking i've got the best saves ever and SR, suddenly he's gone. poof. -- also i'm usually disagreeable to creating a party w/ sr in mind, as it involves heavy ecl.
short version -> SR is nice as is evasion, but they shouldn't be relied on. other tactics will be more successful.
+ while you are ignoring the casters, they are still casting, some of the stuff they do (buff, summon ect) will impact you if you let them continue to get away w/ it.
4. Disable casters with spells: least fave. imho it's just not efficient when compared to the top two. i could waste a few spells and kill the caster(s) or i could waste a few spells and still have to kill them, using 1 or 2 above. instead i tend to use disable spels vs melee opponents in paticular some of the swarm attacks.
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Philos
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Enemy spell casters
Lot of interesting tactics. There is one more option (kind of a combination of the four) that I like sometimes use to "disable" the casters. As in many real life tactical situations the enemy is prepared and has pre-planned their defense of a certain area. The computer AI probably has a preferred spell list for each encounter (seems like it anyhow) designed for that area. Rather than charge into their "prepared defense", I like to employ a drop back and trap them option. The AI is usually agressive so if you drop back, they will follow. As I progress through an area I look for good narrow choke points and defendable positions. I make them come and fight me on "my" ground of choosing rather than theirs. I will leave skull traps, web/entangle/grease alternate routes if they exist and other various things. The efffect on the enemy spell casters is that the first spell they cast usually has no effect on my party especially if an area spell (we are no longer there) and is wasted. They can't cast while moving and will stop to cast once they again see my party. Knowing they are coming and from where I can now get a jump on casting some of the longer nasty area spells (like fire storm by my cleric of Lathander, love that spell) and catch them as they walk in (sometimes before they can even start casting). This worked great on the beast master and his crew in chapter 3. I caught them coming through the wide point in the middle corridor. My fighters had the narrow opening blocked. A firestorm from my cleric and a simultaneous fireball from my fighter/mage wiped out the archers, one apprentice, and had the beast master at death's door. That blew whatever spell he was trying to cast and a followup bolt from the cleric and arrow from the F/M took him out. The bears lasted longer than he did.
This tactic won't work in every case and may not be the best in some. But has served me well on many occasions. This tactic basically gives you the edge in getting in the first lick (in most cases) rather than them.
Lot of interesting tactics. There is one more option (kind of a combination of the four) that I like sometimes use to "disable" the casters. As in many real life tactical situations the enemy is prepared and has pre-planned their defense of a certain area. The computer AI probably has a preferred spell list for each encounter (seems like it anyhow) designed for that area. Rather than charge into their "prepared defense", I like to employ a drop back and trap them option. The AI is usually agressive so if you drop back, they will follow. As I progress through an area I look for good narrow choke points and defendable positions. I make them come and fight me on "my" ground of choosing rather than theirs. I will leave skull traps, web/entangle/grease alternate routes if they exist and other various things. The efffect on the enemy spell casters is that the first spell they cast usually has no effect on my party especially if an area spell (we are no longer there) and is wasted. They can't cast while moving and will stop to cast once they again see my party. Knowing they are coming and from where I can now get a jump on casting some of the longer nasty area spells (like fire storm by my cleric of Lathander, love that spell) and catch them as they walk in (sometimes before they can even start casting). This worked great on the beast master and his crew in chapter 3. I caught them coming through the wide point in the middle corridor. My fighters had the narrow opening blocked. A firestorm from my cleric and a simultaneous fireball from my fighter/mage wiped out the archers, one apprentice, and had the beast master at death's door. That blew whatever spell he was trying to cast and a followup bolt from the cleric and arrow from the F/M took him out. The bears lasted longer than he did.
This tactic won't work in every case and may not be the best in some. But has served me well on many occasions. This tactic basically gives you the edge in getting in the first lick (in most cases) rather than them.
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