The Official Baldur's Gate Series NPC 3.5 Edition Revision Thread!

[Andyr]

For Valygar, I think there is a PrC called or something which is essentially a guy who mistrusts magic. Make him a Fighter/Ranger with some levels in that.

And yeh, Korgan is definitely not a Duergar.

For Keldorn... Some levels in Paladin and then take a few in Church Inquisitor (from, I think, Complete Divine?)

For Yoshimo, I can't think of a direct conversion. However, there is a variant Urban Ranger class somewhere (could be the Unearthed Arcana sourcebook), which might fit. Maybe take some levels of Rogue, too.

I don't know what other schools I'd prohibit Edwin from. He's a flashy guy so not Evocation or Transmutation. Perhaps Enchantment and Necromancy?

[Cuchulain82]

Edwin

I did a little research to try to figure out if Edwin would give up access to Necromancy or Enchantment. I even went so far as to look at the spells by school from SOA and TOB, and it is tricky.

I tend to think of Edwin in contrast to Xar (from the first game). Xar would be easy- straight necromancer, maybe a Zhent, but basically just death-obsessed. Edwin, however, I think of as POWER obsessed, and there is power in both manipulating life/death (necromancy) and manipulating people/items (enchantment).

What I think it breaks down to is a tension between which spells suit Edwin better- the various charms/chaos etc. or the various death/kill spells. The spells that give me the most trouble are Greater Malasion (enchant) vs. Horrid Wiltin/Death Spell (necr.). I think that Edwin would have loved to be able to lay down areas of death and damage, but I also think that he would have loved to be able to break down people's ability to defend against his magic.

Basically, I couldn't come to a conclusion. However, I think I did frame the debate- responses anyone?

[Galuf the Dwarf]

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]I did a little research to try to figure out if Edwin would give up access to Necromancy or Enchantment. I even went so far as to look at the spells by school from SOA and TOB, and it is tricky.

I tend to think of Edwin in contrast to Xar (from the first game). Xar would be easy- straight necromancer, maybe a Zhent, but basically just death-obsessed. Edwin, however, I think of as POWER obsessed, and there is power in both manipulating life/death (necromancy) and manipulating people/items (enchantment).

What I think it breaks down to is a tension between which spells suit Edwin better- the various charms/chaos etc. or the various death/kill spells. The spells that give me the most trouble are Greater Malasion (enchant) vs. Horrid Wiltin/Death Spell (necr.). I think that Edwin would have loved to be able to lay down areas of death and damage, but I also think that he would have loved to be able to break down people's ability to defend against his magic.

Basically, I couldn't come to a conclusion. However, I think I did frame the debate- responses anyone?[/QUOTE]

One thing about the 3.5 Edition Red Wizard Prestige Class is that when the Wizard chooses a probited school he can no longer gain any spells from the new prohibited school AS OF THAT LEVEL AND BEYOND. So, any enchantment spells he had before that he still has and uses. So, for Edwin, any Enchantment spells for his first Red Wizard level and all future RW or Conjurer levels are forbidden.

It seems as if both Luck and Greater Malison were nixed from post-2nd Edition spell-lists, so prohibiting Enchantment makes more sense.

Overall, I'd agree on Enchantment & Necromancy.


Andyr: Church Inquisitor, huh? Sounds like a good lead, but, unfortunately, I'm not looking to have every single sourcebook, so let me see if anybody is willing & able to post it in my D&D/FR book suggestion thread.

That Prestige Class that you mentioned for Valygar sounds familiar. Forsaker, maybe? Mind you, I've only read the requirements of it on a web page, so I'll have to look into that as well. Fighter/Ranger might work, but I was actually thinking (at this point) of a Ranger/Rogue combo, seeing as he had a sneak attack. Still debatable.

Yoshimo's definitely sounding like the toughest, followed by Cernd. Cernd really doesn't sound like he'd work for Prestige Classes like the Warshaper or Nature's Warrior, so I'm still left guessing on him.

[Andyr]

For Cernd you could always just make him a Druid with a Lycanthrope template. Since he has to pick a deity in FR rules, I'd suggest Selune (as her portfolio includes Neutral lycanthropes) or Silvanus.

I don't know how if it is legal to post to much info on the Church Inquisitor and so on as it is not Open Gaming content. The Open Gaming stuff can be found on the Wizards of the Coast site (=System Reference Document); prestige classes are a little down the page. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

However, as a build for Aerie, I'd suggest Wiz 3/Clr 3 or Baervan/Mystric Theurge 2. The Mystic Theurge PrC *is* in the link above.

For Viconia, the obvious would be Cleric of Shar. There's a PrC, the Nightcloak, in the Faiths and Pantheons supplement but again that's not Open Gaming content and I don't recall offhand what the minimum level she'd have to be to take that is.

For Haer'Dalis, I'd suggest a couple of levels in Fighter as well as Bard (since Blade is a combat-oriented kit). Or you might want to give him Bard and then some levels in the Duelist PrC (which is in the link above). Or the Doomlord PrC from the Planar Handbook, as I think he is a member.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

[QUOTE=Andyr]For Cernd you could always just make him a Druid with a Lycanthrope template. Since he has to pick a deity in FR rules, I'd suggest Selune (as her portfolio includes Neutral lycanthropes) or Silvanus.

I don't know how if it is legal to post to much info on the Church Inquisitor and so on as it is not Open Gaming content. The Open Gaming stuff can be found on the Wizards of the Coast site (=System Reference Document); prestige classes are a little down the page. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35

However, as a build for Aerie, I'd suggest Wiz 3/Clr 3 or Baervan/Mystric Theurge 2. The Mystic Theurge PrC *is* in the link above.

For Viconia, the obvious would be Cleric of Shar. There's a PrC, the Nightcloak, in the Faiths and Pantheons supplement but again that's not Open Gaming content and I don't recall offhand what the minimum level she'd have to be to take that is.

For Haer'Dalis, I'd suggest a couple of levels in Fighter as well as Bard (since Blade is a combat-oriented kit). Or you might want to give him Bard and then some levels in the Duelist PrC (which is in the link above). Or the Doomlord PrC from the Planar Handbook, as I think he is a member.[/QUOTE]

1) Here's a list of what sourcebooks I have
D&D:
- 3.5 Edition PHB
- 3.5 Edition DMG
- 3.5 Edition Monster Manual
- Complete Warrior
- Races of Stone
- Expanded Psionics Handbook
- Frostburn
- Draconomicon
- Deities & Demigods

FR:
- Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
- Races of Faerun
- Player's Guide to Faerun
- Lost Empires of Faerun
- Faiths & Pantheons
- Underdark
- Magic of Faerun

Does that make things any easier?

2) What do you mean we can't post that? I am somewhat aware of the Open Gaming Content thing, except for this notion. Overall, I think Buck should have a word on that.

3) I considered making Cernd a CN Human (Afflicted) Werewolf Druid 7. More than likely Silvanus. According to F&P, Selune doesn't really have much (if any) druids amongst her worshippers. Lycanthropic druids possibly, but that's not definite.

4) For Aerie, I'd think Wiz 4/ Cleric of Baervan 4 would be sufficient. Since she lost her wings, she would lose the ability to do a dive attack and (of course) her flight speed. I'm thinking of lowering her Level Adjustment by 1 (down to a +2 LA).

5) I would suggest against Nightcloak for Viconia. She really seems like a Vanilla Cleric of Shar to me. The abilities of a Nightcloak seem quite unlike Viconia's capabilities. Explaining some ablities that already existed for characters, I can see, but giving them stuff that they really didn't have in the game sounds more like I'd be overly-sweeteing the deal.

6) Haer'Dalis likely has levels in Duelist, but not Fighter.

[Andyr]

1. Heh, cool, similar list to me.

2. I mean it is legal to post class abilities and details from Open Gaming material, but not other material. So if someone were to post a Keldorn build as Paladin/Church Inquisitor I am not sure if it would be legal, because the Church Inquisitor is from a non-Open Gaming source.

Whether anyone would actually care is another question.

3. Why CN for Cernd?

4. Yeh, toning down her LA would make sense, given the lack of wings.

5. Fair point.

6. Yeh, if you were going to go for PrCs then Bard/Duelist probably works better than Bard/Fighter.

[Cuchulain82]

(1) Keldorn is DEFINATELY and inquisitor. I have Defenders of the Faith, and it is like the kit was made for him. I'm surprised I didn't think of that myself.

(2) As long as no one is posting PDFs of WOTC books or posting huge volumes of copyrighted text, I think we will be okay. Making Keldorn a Church inquisitor and detailing his abilites in discussion relating to material- we can talk about the plot of a book or movie online, but we can't post the material itself.

(3) All of Cernd's dialogue does make him seem dead N, not CN.

(4) I honestly don't think Aerie should have ANY Level Adjustment. For practical purposes in BGII she was an elf. For the dramatic storyline she had lost her wings, it affected her, etc. But for gameplay, she was still an elf. In 2nd ed. you couldn't be an Avariel (outside of DM permission)- the race wasn't ever in a sourcebook (I'm pretty sure about this). So, from a gameplay perspective it doesn't matter if Boo is a miniature giant space hamster or if Aerie is a winged elf with no wings... a spade is a spade, as they say...

(5) Vicconia is pretty straightforward, but one of the classes from Defenders of the Faith might be good. There is a twist though (Spoiler)

In TOB, her allignment can change if you romance her. How does a cleric of Shar (and the people trying to convert said cleric to 3.5) resolve that issue?!?

(6) Duelist is good, but a planar kit isn't a bad idea either- I don't have access to many planar books, but someone out there does...

[Galuf the Dwarf]

(1) Keldorn is DEFINATELY and inquisitor. I have Defenders of the Faith, and it is like the kit was made for him. I'm surprised I didn't think of that myself.

Whether there's any difference between that version or the 3.5/Complete Divine version is also an issue. It may not be likely, but I'd like to find out regardless.

(2) As long as no one is posting PDFs of WOTC books or posting huge volumes of copyrighted text, I think we will be okay. Making Keldorn a Church inquisitor and detailing his abilites is discussion relating to material- we can talk about the plot of a book or movie online, but we can't post the material itself.

So what are you saying, then? I can post abilities of the (prestige) class in a character stat block, but not the (prestige) class itself?

How "huge" are we talking? If posting a single creature's stats or all is an issue, then we all should have been warned about that a long time ago. Besides, I just about always (if not always) tell what some materials come from when I do anyways.

(3) All of Cernd's dialogue does make him seem dead N, not CN.

You really think so, eh? I was partly thinking CN out of him being an afflicted lycanthrope who recognized his affliction and somewhat "won his battle with it" although he still risks a shift to CE if he fails a will save upon transformation to (were)wolf form. He also gave me the impression of constantly adapting to some degree when the time called for it.

(4) I honestly don't think Aerie should have ANY Level Adjustment. For practical purposes in BGII she was an elf. For the dramatic storyline she had lost her wings, it affected her, etc. But for gameplay, she was still an elf. In 2nd ed. you couldn't be an Avariel (outside of DM permission)- the race wasn't ever in a sourcebook (I'm pretty sure about this). So, from a gameplay perspective it doesn't matter if Boo is a miniature giant space hamster or if Aerie is a winged elf with no wings... a spade is a spade, as they say...

Avariel are given in Races of Faerun.

(5) Vicconia is pretty straightforward, but one of the classes from Defenders of the Faith might be good.

Shar can have True Neutral worshippers as well as any evil alignment.

(6) Duelist is good, but a planar kit isn't a bad idea either- I don't have access to many planar books, but someone out there does...

The Great Hairy likely does. He says he has the Manual of the Planes, so I wonder if that may be suffient. Might need others, though.

[Cuchulain82]

Avariel are given in Races of Faerun

Is Races of Faerun a 2nd ed. book or a 3rd ed. book?

In SOA and TOB, Aerie's gamplay- abilities, level advancement, resistances, etc.- weren't effected by the fact that she was an avariel elf instead of a vanilla elf. Dramatically, being an avariel was a big deal, but not in terms of gameplay. Consequently, giving her a gameplay effect in the 3.5 version isn't necessarily consistent with SOA and TOB, especially if she doesn't have the benefits (ie- wings) to counteract the penalties (ie- LA).

So what are you saying, then? I can post abilities of the (prestige) class in a character stat block, but not the (prestige) class itself?

How "huge" are we talking? If posting a single creature's stats or all is an issue, then we all should have been warned about that a long time ago. Besides, I just about always (if not always) tell what some materials come from when I do anyways.

As far as what you can/can't post, I am not a lawyer so I can't tell you definatively one way or the other. I don't think there will be a problem posting characters that say something like "Keldorn Paladin lvl 7, Inquistor 2" and then detailing his abilities as an inquisitor. If you were to post, for example, the text of the Complete Divine and told people they could check out the kit that would be bad.

If you are really worried about this, I think your original idea of defering to what Buck (and other Mods, I guess) are comfortable with is a good one.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Is Races of Faerun a 2nd ed. book or a 3rd ed. book?

In SOA and TOB, Aerie's gamplay- abilities, level advancement, resistances, etc.- weren't effected by the fact that she was an avariel elf instead of a vanilla elf. Dramatically, being an avariel was a big deal, but not in terms of gameplay. Consequently, giving her a gameplay effect in the 3.5 version isn't necessarily consistent with SOA and TOB, especially if she doesn't have the benefits (ie- wings) to counteract the penalties (ie- LA).

RoF is a 3rd Edition Book.

Avariel have other things to them that constitute a LA, such as their bonuses to spot and Jump checks, as well as the Avariel bonuses to stats.

If you are really worried about this, I think your original idea of defering to what Buck (and other Mods, I guess) are comfortable with is a good one.

Already PMed Buck. Just waiting for his reply

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Well, this NPC should have no problems with him (except for his reptuation amongst his fellow Thayans), so here's Edwin!

Edwin Odeisseron
Lawful Evil Male Mulan Human Conjurer 7/ Red Wizard 2 (ECL: 9)
Hit Dice: 9d4+36 (69 hp)

Initiative: +4

Speed: 30 feet (6 squares)

Armor Class: 10, Touch 10, Flat-footed 10

Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+4

Attack: Dagger +5 melee (1d4+5/19-20/x2) or quarterstaff* +5 melee (1d6/x2) or light crossbow +4 ranged (1d8/19-20/x2)

Abilities:
10 Strength
10 Dexterity
18 Constitution
20 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
10 Charisma

Saving Throws: Fortitude +6, Reflex +2, Will +8

Special Attacks: N/A

Special Qualities: Copy Scroll, Enhanced Specialization (chose Necromancy as future prohibited school) Specialist Defense (+1 to saving throws on direct-damage spells of the Conjuration school) Spell Power (+1 effective caster level checks, spell DCs, etc.), Summon Familiar

Skills and Feats: Concentration +16, Craft (Calligraphy) +13, Decipher Script +15, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (Arcana) +17, Knowledge (History) +15, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (Geography) +12, Profession (Con Artist) +6, Spellcraft + 17 (+19 for Conjuration spells); Augment Summoning, Combat Casting, Eschew Materials**, Improved Initiative, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Spell Penetration, Tattoo Focus

Wizard Spells prepared (Caster Level 10th): 0 - Acid Splash, Flare, Mage Hand, Ray of Frost, Resistance; 1st - Grease, Endure Elements, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Summon Monster I; 2nd - Blur, Melf’s Acid Arrow(x2), Mirror Image, Summon Monster II, Web; 3rd – Dispel Magic, Fireball, Haste, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster III; 4th – Fire Shield, Ice Storm, Stoneskin, Summon Monster IV; 5th – Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Summon Monster V (Prohibited schools: Divination, Enchantment and Necromancy)

Possessions: +1 Dagger, +1 Quarterstaff, light crossbow, 40 crossbow bolts, spellbook, spell component pouch

Challenge Rating: 10

Books Used: 3.5 Edition Player’s Handbook, 3.5 Edition Dungeon Master’s Guide, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Races of Faerun

Notes:
* In 3.5 Edition, quarterstaves are normally wielding as a double-weapon and treated as using two weapons and the off-hand weapon is light. However, they can also be wielded as a two-handed weapon, as is the case with Edwin when he wields his.
** Eschew Materials only eliminates a spell's material components if they are worth 1 gp or below.

[Cuchulain82]

(Prohibited schools: Divination, Enchantment and Necromancy)

So Galuf, after all that discussion about which option to prohibit- (a) Enchantment, or (b) Necromancy, you chose.... (c) Both!

What made you change your mind and keep illusion?

[Galuf the Dwarf]

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]So Galuf, after all that discussion about which option to prohibit- (a) Enchantment, or (b) Necromancy, you chose.... (c) Both!

What made you change your mind and keep illusion?[/QUOTE]

Mostly for spells like Blur, Mirror Image, etc. He seems like one to heavily use any advantage in combat, but wasn't entirely one for the arts of arcane death. Fireballs and summonings, definitely yes, but manipulating the chill of the grave, no.


As for other NPCs, I can say this much.

Mazzy: Definitely Paladin of Arvoreen, which is not a highly-established order of pallies, unfortunately, so what she can any (prestige) classes she can freely multi-class as may not be established.. She'll just be less proficient in short bows and short swords than she was.

Haer'Dalis: The Blade's dances sounds quite a bit like the combat dancing ability of the Dervish prestige class from The Complete Warrior. I just have to find out if short swords only cause piercing damage or if they do slashing as well. If not, I might be out of luck.

Valygar: This guy sounds a bit like he could use the Occult Slayer Prestige Class from CW. Right now, his spread of levels is Ranger 6/Rogue1/OS 2. The rogue level is to explain the sneak attack he gets.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Well, I just got Complete Divine today, and ran into one problem for Keldorn. In order to meet the requirements for the Church Inquisitor prestige class, he has to have a base Will save of +3, which Paladins don't get until level 10. Keldorn's abilities and involvement in the Cult of the Eyeless quest definitely fit the prestige class, but it still poses a problem.

If I'm supposed to make these stats for the earliest that these NPCs can be obtained that (8th or 9th level), then he can't have a single level in Church Inquisitor.

[Erenor]

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Well, I just got Complete Divine today, and ran into one problem for Keldorn. In order to meet the requirements for the Church Inquisitor prestige class, he has to have a base Will save of +3, which Paladins don't get until level 10. Keldorn's abilities and involvement in the Cult of the Eyeless quest definitely fit the prestige class, but it still poses a problem.

If I'm supposed to make these stats for the earliest that these NPCs can be obtained that (8th or 9th level), then he can't have a single level in Church Inquisitor. [/QUOTE]

Well, how is Keldorn stacked up before level 10 then?

[Cuchulain82]

Galuf, after the protracted discussion about Katanas, Sabers, and Wakizashis, what have you decided? I'm really interested in your next post, and I just want to know how far along you are?

[Galuf the Dwarf]

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]Galuf, after the protracted discussion about Katanas, Sabers, and Wakizashis, what have you decided? I'm really interested in your next post, and I just want to know how far along you are?[/QUOTE]

Since I'm in the midst of big assignments for this college semester, my time for such is somewhat limited.

At this point, the weapon of choice (due to feat requirements and profiency) looks to be longsword. Scimitars would have him requiring the appropriate Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, and Wakizashi proficiency is based upon an non-slashing weapon for Weapon Focus.

However, I've run into one other big block, and this is, like Keldorn, he'll have to be given more than the 7 to 9 levels that I generally give these NPC stats. 7 Bard levels do not give him the 4 minimum feats required to qualify for the Dervish Prestige Class. This is mainly because Tieflings do not gain the bonus feat at first level that regular Humans do.

Aside from that, I've really got to brush up on his skills.

[Aramant]

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]I don't think he's a Duergar. Gray Dwarves have charcoal- or iron-gray skin.[/QUOTE]

What colour is his skin on the avatar? If you're just going by the portrait, you're somewhat limited, as BG2 doesn't have a grey-skinned dwarven portrait available.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Spoiler highlight = for the protection of inexperienced players.

[QUOTE=Aramant]What colour is his skin on the avatar? If you're just going by the portrait, you're somewhat limited, as BG2 doesn't have a grey-skinned dwarven portrait available.[/QUOTE]

Trust me, Korgan is purely Shield Dwarf. Besides, if you also are going by another certain someone, (those who haven't done the Temple of Helm quest, highlight for spoiler)

Unger Hilldark is living in disguise. From what I've gotten out of the situation, his disguise is to protect his identity. In addition, if you look at the Duergar at the beginning dungeon and in the Underdark, their skin is as grey as it's supposed to be.

The skin of Korgan's avatar is rather tanned to a light brown. If he was a Duergar, his skin would dark grey, and he'd also be able to cast Invisibility as a special ability 1/day. Please, try to trust me on this, okay?

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Just as an official notice, I'll likely have more time to do stats in the next 3 or 4 weeks, since I'm pretty much finishing up with this semester's college classes. Right now, calculating things like Skills especially are really tedious right now.