CE:s serious couch - Q&A on brains

[Bloodstalker]

Thanks again CE, I'll check the links out tommorrow when I can actually still comprehend anything. If I come acroos anything I don't understand, I'll toss it your way. It's nice to have a brain to pick

[C Elegans]

It was a very long time ago I started this thread, but it's still here for any serious questions about psychology, psychiatry, neuroscience, or just general problems related to psychology/psychiatry.

No spam please, this is a serious thread. Everybody is welcome to comment, ask questions and have opinions though, as long as it is on topic.

[CM]

Yeah why do women hate me?

No seriously i wanted to know how is a headache caused. Are the wrong sort of chemicals released to cause your brain to start playing a mexican marching band?

I never got how that worked.

[C Elegans]

@Fas: Because you are ugly and boring

Seriously, there are several types of headache that is caused by different mechanisms. The pain in Migraine and Cluster Headache are caused by blood vessels diluting. Exactly why this is happening is not known, but it is thought that migrain starts in the neurons (nerve cells) and the neuronal events trigger the vascular events.

Common headache is most often caused by blood vessels in the muscles diluting, or muscle tension pressing on nerves. This can happen when people are tired, worried, stressed or have visual deficits. Hangover headache is mainly caused by dehydration, which makes the brain swell and thus press against the cranium.

There are also some severe diseases and disorders that cause headache, such as meningitis, brain tumours, faciocranial nerve disorders, certain lung disorders and blood disorders. Finally, there are some toxins that induce headache.

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Fas: Because you are ugly and boring

Seriously, there are several types of headache that is caused by different mechanisms. The pain in Migraine and Cluster Headache are caused by blood vessels diluting. Exactly why this is happening is not known, but it is thought that migrain starts in the neurons (nerve cells) and the neuronal events trigger the vascular events.

Common headache is most often caused by blood vessels in the muscles diluting, or muscle tension pressing on nerves. This can happen when people are tired, worried, stressed or have visual deficits. Hangover headache is mainly caused by dehydration, which makes the brain swell and thus press against the cranium.

There are also some severe diseases and disorders that cause headache, such as meningitis, brain tumours, faciocranial nerve disorders, certain lung disorders and blood disorders. Finally, there are some toxins that induce headache.[/QUOTE]

I get both Migraines, the non-acute kind, and Cluster headaches. Extremely painful experiences, but caffiene works wonders on headaches from opening up the blood vessels. I used to get stress headaches near enough to be considered daily years ago.

While I'm here, would there be any reason you can think of for stress to be causing extreme problems with muscular tension in the neck? I know it's possible, I'm just curious as to the how and why. I've dealt with everything from flu-like symptoms, headaches and now pain from tension on my muscles and joints, all from stress.

[C Elegans]

I get both Migraines, the non-acute kind, and Cluster headaches. Extremely painful experiences, but caffiene works wonders on headaches from opening up the blood vessels. I used to get stress headaches near enough to be considered daily years ago.

Caffeine and nicotine actually works well for many people to relieve migrain headaches, the problem is that both are very addictive and that it also provoces vomiting easily. Most people get very nauseus from their migraine, and in classical migraine, vomiting is a common symptom. For people who get acute migraine often, pharmaceutical treatment is a better option.

Cluster headache is horrible It's also more difficult to treat than common migraine, at treatment usually must involve chronic, profylactic pharmaca to help.

While I'm here, would there be any reason you can think of for stress to be causing extreme problems with muscular tension in the neck? I know it's possible, I'm just curious as to the how and why. I've dealt with everything from flu-like symptoms, headaches and now pain from tension on my muscles and joints, all from stress.

Nobody knows for sure, but part of is mechanical, so to speak. When people are stressed, most have a tendency to raise their shoulders so they come closer to the neck. This is most likely an evolutionary defense posture. The problem is that if you keep this body position for an extended time, the blood flow to the muscles will be decreased, so the muscle get fatigued by lack of oxygen and blood. Then the muscle will be even more prone to increase the tension and even cramp, and a vicious circle that can lead to chronic pain syndromes, is started. Over time (several months) the tense muscles will often create pressure at nerve ends in the joints, so pain in both muscles and joints, as well as along the squeezed nerve, is common.

At the same time, when you are stressed, a lot of chemical events will trigger in your body. The release of cortisol and adrenaline increases your general level of vigilance and awakeness, which also includes increase of muscle tension to prepare the muscles to work (for defending your self or for a swift flight). This is what is called the "fight-or-flight" response is biopsychology, and people who are chronically stressed go around in this state for months, or even years - an alarm state that is meant to last for just a few minutes to increase our survival chances in especially threatning situations.

[Vicsun]

Caffeine and nicotine actually works well for many people to relieve migrain headaches, the problem is that both are very addictive...

Aside from withdrawal symptoms when you cut consumption, what are the negative effects of caffeine addiction?

[C Elegans]

[QUOTE=Vicsun]Aside from withdrawal symptoms when you cut consumption, what are the negative effects of caffeine addiction?[/QUOTE]

Increased risk for cardiovascular disease and different forms of cancer. In low doses, this risk is negligible, though.

Caffeine is a psychostimulantia which has effects on the nervous system, but it also has a general cellular and molecular effect in the rest of the human body, which is far from my specialist area. Studies have shown caffeine has an effect on cell cycles, DNA repair, apoptosis (programmed cell death) and other molcular events. All this is highly complex, and the mechanisms are mostly unknown, but caffein's property to alter cell cycle checkpoints is probably what is linked to the carcinogenic (cancer-causing) effect.

[Brynn]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Increased risk for cardiovascular disease and different forms of cancer. In low doses, this risk is negligible, though.[/QUOTE]
What is considered low dose? Eg. is two or three strong coffees a day a low dose, or is that more than the recommended?

My sis follows some kid of blood type diet, and it's her firm belief that coffee (caffeine) is more than good for people with A-type blood so she drinks as much as she can...

[C Elegans]

[QUOTE=Brynn]What is considered low dose? Eg. is two or three strong coffees a day a low dose, or is that more than the recommended?

My sis follows some kid of blood type diet, and it's her firm belief that coffee (caffeine) is more than good for people with A-type blood so she drinks as much as she can... [/QUOTE]

Low dose=1-2 cups of coffee or coca colas/day. Two to three strong coffees a day a little bit more, but most likely not a health risk for a person with normal body volume and who is otherwise healthy.

Argh, that blood type diet things has been been demonstrated to be totally worthless, even dangerous to some people. I don't know what your sister is influenced by, but the American book that made these bloodgroup stuff popular, "Eat right for you bloodtype" by Peter J D'Adamo, contains heaps of pseduo science about lectins, proteins and genetic background. D'Adamo and his followers have even proposed a totally erranous genetic "age chart" for the different blood types. Trouble is, not many people know how you really date genes. Friend of mine who is a professor in Cell and Molecular biology has written an excellent criticism article of the blood type diets, pity it is in Swedish.

[VonDondu]

I know that 15 pounds of chocolate contains enough toxins (caffeine and theobromine) to kill me, but I'll probably never eat that much chocolate at one time. (Probably.) So I'm more worried about my casual consumption of chocolate. I don't know exactly how much chocolate I eat. But for the sake of argument, if I eat about one ounce (28.4 mg) per day, what are the longterm effects?

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Caffeine and nicotine actually works well for many people to relieve migrain headaches, the problem is that both are very addictive and that it also provoces vomiting easily. Most people get very nauseus from their migraine, and in classical migraine, vomiting is a common symptom. For people who get acute migraine often, pharmaceutical treatment is a better option.

Cluster headache is horrible It's also more difficult to treat than common migraine, at treatment usually must involve chronic, profylactic pharmaca to help.



Nobody knows for sure, but part of is mechanical, so to speak. When people are stressed, most have a tendency to raise their shoulders so they come closer to the neck. This is most likely an evolutionary defense posture. The problem is that if you keep this body position for an extended time, the blood flow to the muscles will be decreased, so the muscle get fatigued by lack of oxygen and blood. Then the muscle will be even more prone to increase the tension and even cramp, and a vicious circle that can lead to chronic pain syndromes, is started. Over time (several months) the tense muscles will often create pressure at nerve ends in the joints, so pain in both muscles and joints, as well as along the squeezed nerve, is common.

At the same time, when you are stressed, a lot of chemical events will trigger in your body. The release of cortisol and adrenaline increases your general level of vigilance and awakeness, which also includes increase of muscle tension to prepare the muscles to work (for defending your self or for a swift flight). This is what is called the "fight-or-flight" response is biopsychology, and people who are chronically stressed go around in this state for months, or even years - an alarm state that is meant to last for just a few minutes to increase our survival chances in especially threatning situations.[/QUOTE]

That would explain things much better than the doctors I went to specifically ABOUT both of those things. Thanks.

[Yeltsu]

[QUOTE=VonDondu]I know that 15 pounds of chocolate contains enough toxins (caffeine and theobromine) to kill me, but I'll probably never eat that much chocolate at one time. (Probably.) So I'm more worried about my casual consumption of chocolate. I don't know exactly how much chocolate I eat. But for the sake of argument, if I eat about one ounce (28.4 mg) per day, what are the longterm effects?[/QUOTE]

Well, if you eat 11kg of carrots everyday for a year you'll probably die of cancer (Not sure who would do that though)

Not sure this question would fit here though, but I'll ask anyway since you seem to know everything CE

What causes nightblindness? (hemoralophy [sp?]) I am not talking about reduced vision at dusk like everybody has, (I know what causes that) But I am talking about permanently reduced nightvision. I have this, I don't see **** in the dark, when others see quite well. I think it might be genetic though, since many family members on my mothers side has/had the same problem...

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Ok, so did you want to know anything more about that? It is really most of all a type of cognitive memory distrubance, where the patient can't integrate memories collected in the different states (ie when s/he was different personalities). The condition is very rare, and few people have a pure form where they have memories at all of the different personalities. It is more like different states than separate "personalities". Sometimes during very special circumstances a person may develop totally separate personalities, if this happens it starts in childhood, usually as a reaction on very severe traumas like contant physical and mental abuse. [/QUOTE]

I just read through this thread and saw this on MPD or Dissasociative Disorder. My last ex had this and I really didn't have too much of a problem with it until there was a communication breakdown with all of the different personalities along the lines of her not remembering to tell me certain things she swore she told me. We had been close friends for about 3 years before dating. I helped her get over issues with abuse from past boyfriends and her parents. She had put up with extreme mental abuse from her mother, and being used as a pawn to get even with her parents, from both sides.

I know much isn't know about this problem and most American doctors believe it is simply delusion and the people are simply making things up. So, I'm curious, would there be a breakdown in memory function? How is it that this all works? We had a GREAT relationship until she assumed she had told me this thing and didn't and argued over it. I don't think she could handle the fact her problem caused such a horrible argument and she reacted terribly to the situation. I wasn't at all happy when realizing what had been going on the past month was simply because she had forgotten to inform me of something and assumed she had, but I was willing to work that out. She just well, has a temper, and can't deal with arguments because of her history with her mother.

I'm just wondering based on all of the time I spent with her. I can honestly say she wouldn't be alive if not for my intervention and I'd rather understand better what may have caused that initial memory problem that caused the breakdown of our relationship. I'm not looking to fix it, or get back with her, just curiousity on my part.

[C Elegans]

I don't know exactly how much chocolate I eat. But for the sake of argument, if I eat about one ounce (28.4 mg) per day, what are the longterm effects?

Chocolate contains a variety of unhealthy substances such as theobromine, caffein, phenylethylamine and anandamide. However, chocolate also contains a group of substances called flavanoles, which have been shown to supress cardiovascular disease in rats. Flavanoles are believed to recude NO (nitric oxide) which is toxic, and thus act as an antioxidant. All these substances are in the cocoa, so the adverse and positive effects respectively will be dependent on how much cocoa you eat rather than how much chocolate you eat. Milk chocolate often have a low cocoa content, and the amount of fat will negate the positive effect of flavanoles on your cardiovascular system. Dark chocolate like the Belgian type, is definitely more healthy. I don't know what type of chocolate you eat, but a daily intake of 30 mg is very little and should have no effect at all. Even 30 mg pure cocoa should have very little effect.

What causes nightblindness? (hemoralophy [sp?]) I am not talking about reduced vision at dusk like everybody has, (I know what causes that) But I am talking about permanently reduced nightvision. I have this, I don't see **** in the dark, when others see quite well. I think it might be genetic though, since many family members on my mothers side has/had the same problem...

Heh, I am certainly not an ophtamologist, but I'll try my best:
Apart from the nightblindness caused by Vitamin A deficit, nightblindness is almost always related to heritable conditions. One variant is the Usher's syndrome, which also includes hearing impairment. There are also some progressive types that get worse and worse with age. Finally, there are some unusual types that are all heritable, that are not progressive, they stay the same all your life. If the nightblindness does not get worse over time for you or your relatives, it may be Congenital stationary night blindness (CSNB) you are suffering from. (Hemeralopia is the same as CSNB). CSNB is caused by genetic mutations, and can be inherited according to different patterns. (I think autosomal recessive and X-linked heritability are the most common types.) In some people with the X-linked type of CSNB it is caused by a mutation that cause blocking of the glutamate NMDA receptor pathway in the hippocampus, a pathway that normally goes between the left and right frontal lobe. The underlying mechanism for CSNB is not the same for everyone though, but it seems that a calcium-gene is involved in many cases. Other causes include genes that cause the retina to degrade, or cause the rods to be insensitive. Unless your family has got a genotyping, I guess it's impossible to say exactly what the cause is in your specific case.

[C Elegans]

[QUOTE=Magrus]I know much isn't know about this problem and most American doctors believe it is simply delusion and the people are simply making things up. So, I'm curious, would there be a breakdown in memory function? How is it that this all works? [/QUOTE]

MPD, or as it is called nowadays, Dissociate Identity Disorder (DID), is rare but it does exist. There are a lot of rare diseases and disorders around. There are many case reports around, as well as studies of groups. In fact, I recently read a European study of 22 DID patients that dealt exactly with what you are asking. In this study, the 22 patients learned a material (words and some other things) when they were one identity, and later when they were another identity, they were asked if they remembered the learning occation and the material. 19 of 22 did not remember the learning occation at all, ie it seemed as they were suffering from total amnesia (loss of memory) between their identities. However, they also did a test where you can measure priming, a method to evalute unconscious learning. In this test, the 19 DID patients scored only a little bit worse than the healthy control subjects (a group of students), indicating that they actually do remember more than they think, but they are not aware of it.

This and other studies support the hypothesis that people with DID actually can remember things quite well between their personalities, but they are not aware of this and need cues in order to be able to pick out their memories. In one of the studies, the patients remembered emotionally negative material worse than positive material, but in the study I read there was no difference.

So what does this say about your ex? IMO, that it is very probable that she actually didn't remember. The level of integration between the different identities will vary slightly, and often gets worse under stress or negative emotional experiences. When the level of integration is lower, the intra-identity memory will also be lower, and in this situation, there may not have been enough supportive cues to make her remember. Of course we can never be entirely sure of what she really remembered and not, but I am saying that it is very possible that she actually had a severe integration breakdown and really believed she had told you the things she had not.

[Magrus]

@C Elegans, Thanks for clearing that up. Given how she reacted and her personality I think she didn't remember and she got upset based on what that lapse in memory caused, but I wasn't sure. I was just getting into research when we were dating and it didn't last long because of that. I didn't bother afterwards, but that's always make me wonder.

Hopefully I should be able to give a decent explanation about how stress affects the body, since I am holding lectures for postgraduate students about stress

You'd be surprised at how many teachers I've had that don't know what they're talking about. It's nice to see someone who can claim the right to a doctorite that deserves it, at least for me with my history. Your brief description gave me more information than the 3 doctors I was sent to for those specific things that my family paid a good deal of money for.

[giles337]

This question seems to have been answered... so theres something that i've been wonderign about that I'd like to ask. I read a book recently (forget the title) in which a grown woman who is a skilled computer programmer, who was sexually abused by her father as a child, attempts to find a way to get over the problem, by creating a virtual reality program in which she can relive the event, and in this instance, fight against her father.

Would this actually help someone who has been abused?

Also, in the novel, she wrote an amount of randomness into the prgram, so there could be different outcome, one of many of which was her father overpowering her, and killing her. If the above IS theoretically viable, what kind of affect would experiencing this have?

I''m sorry if I have had trouble conveying my meaning, if you have questions please ask me.

[Darth Zenemij]

[QUOTE=giles337] This question seems to have been answered... so theres something that i've been wonderign about that I'd like to ask. I read a book recently (forget the title) in which a grown woman who is a skilled computer programmer, who was sexually abused by her father as a child, attempts to find a way to get over the problem, by creating a virtual reality program in which she can relive the event, and in this instance, fight against her father.

Would this actually help someone who has been abused?

Also, in the novel, she wrote an amount of randomness into the prgram, so there could be different outcome, one of many of which was her father overpowering her, and killing her. If the above IS theoretically viable, what kind of affect would experiencing this have?

I''m sorry if I have had trouble conveying my meaning, if you have questions please ask me. [/QUOTE]

I think that I have read this book,It sounds oddly familiar.

[giles337]

Demon Seed, by Author Dean Koontz. I had a look this morning It wasn't the best novel, but a very interesting concept.