Do you think it is possible to play through Icewind Dale without a mage and a rogue in your party?
The party I have in mind should only consist of Aasimar humans with
1 Paladin (Helm)
1 Cleric (Helm)
4 Fighters (heavy armoured with sword/shield)
From a RPG perspective a rogue and a mage don't fit into this combination.
Are there any parts within the game where you would get stuck or face an undefeatable foe with such an unbalanced party?
I intend to play in the normal mode btw.
Playing ICWD II without mages and rogues
that is sort of an odd party, there will be fights where some extra magic (divine or arcane) would be of benefit, but w/ some careful tactics i don't see why you can't beat the game in normal mode. i've heard of others besting the game w/o a caster in the group at least you have one cleric and a paladin.
where this party could struggle is in some boss encounters and in the early game when equipment is very scarce, that ecl will be working against you, and you wont have very many area attack spells.
otoh
you have six party members that are all carbon copies of each other, you may have problems outfitting such a group and from time to time using "inferior" equipment just b/c there aren't enough cool swords / armour / shields ect ect to go around.
meanwhile you may find some nice suits of lighter armour that are almost useless.
perhaps there is some room for some diversity, example...
cleric.
pally.
ftr (heavy armour, greatswords)
ftr (archery specialist, lighter armours)
barb (medium armour+ great axe)
ranger (dual shorts and light, archery - also party scout)
for a slightly easier go of it, maybe mix in another cleric by leveling them evenly w/ a ftr or consider a ftr / mage.
cleric
pally
cleric / pally
ftr
ftr
barb
ranger
where this party could struggle is in some boss encounters and in the early game when equipment is very scarce, that ecl will be working against you, and you wont have very many area attack spells.
otoh
you have six party members that are all carbon copies of each other, you may have problems outfitting such a group and from time to time using "inferior" equipment just b/c there aren't enough cool swords / armour / shields ect ect to go around.
meanwhile you may find some nice suits of lighter armour that are almost useless.
perhaps there is some room for some diversity, example...
cleric.
pally.
ftr (heavy armour, greatswords)
ftr (archery specialist, lighter armours)
barb (medium armour+ great axe)
ranger (dual shorts and light, archery - also party scout)
for a slightly easier go of it, maybe mix in another cleric by leveling them evenly w/ a ftr or consider a ftr / mage.
cleric
pally
cleric / pally
ftr
ftr
barb
ranger
"all around you is tinder for the gods"
This is an interesting party!
The rouge can be excluded, no doubt. You won't even notice he isn't there
But a mage... For me it's hard to imagine a party w/o a mage b/c that's my favourite character. Apart from this there's another problem - how will you block several enemies at a time if you have no area spells to cast (web, stinking cloud, etc)? It'll be pretty hard to manage if all your warriors will engage in melee combat immediately. You'll need someone to deal with the unreachable enemy casters, too (and no, one ranger with a bow will not cope with this task, imho).
Ever thought of a druid? That class has some cool spells, too, and maybe that'll fit into your party better.
The rouge can be excluded, no doubt. You won't even notice he isn't there
But a mage... For me it's hard to imagine a party w/o a mage b/c that's my favourite character. Apart from this there's another problem - how will you block several enemies at a time if you have no area spells to cast (web, stinking cloud, etc)? It'll be pretty hard to manage if all your warriors will engage in melee combat immediately. You'll need someone to deal with the unreachable enemy casters, too (and no, one ranger with a bow will not cope with this task, imho).
Ever thought of a druid? That class has some cool spells, too, and maybe that'll fit into your party better.
Up the IRONS!
The party should represent some kinde of knightly order of Helm. So I would like to focus on heavily armoured knights with an additional cleric.
Maybe I will give them each a different weapon focus, but I will stick to the base concept of noble warriors in shining plate armour going for close combat. I will even make them refuse using missile weapons against anything but animals following the cavalier concept of BG2. Slaying a worhty foe with a bow just isn't honourable ;-). My paladin will even refuse to steal from the dead. So I won't loot corpses or graves if not for any special quest items or if this deed can be excused IC otherwise. Besides of that he won't accept monetary rewards either.
Rogues, druids, mages or even rangers simply don't feel right in this party. And I guess such characters won't feel comfortable in such a "self-rightous" group either ....from a RPG view .
However I consider of giving them in the beginning some extra armour (maybe even Aasimar plates) and some mastercraft weapons via dalekeeper. With all these restrictions and since especially the armor can only be bought, it should be okay. Since they are knights they should arrive at Targos with something better than wooden staffs.
Maybe I will give them each a different weapon focus, but I will stick to the base concept of noble warriors in shining plate armour going for close combat. I will even make them refuse using missile weapons against anything but animals following the cavalier concept of BG2. Slaying a worhty foe with a bow just isn't honourable ;-). My paladin will even refuse to steal from the dead. So I won't loot corpses or graves if not for any special quest items or if this deed can be excused IC otherwise. Besides of that he won't accept monetary rewards either.
Rogues, druids, mages or even rangers simply don't feel right in this party. And I guess such characters won't feel comfortable in such a "self-rightous" group either ....from a RPG view
.However I consider of giving them in the beginning some extra armour (maybe even Aasimar plates) and some mastercraft weapons via dalekeeper. With all these restrictions and since especially the armor can only be bought, it should be okay. Since they are knights they should arrive at Targos with something better than wooden staffs.
That knight party idea seems kinda cool. I think I'll try that one next too. Usually I focus on mages and sorcs cause I like magic so much, but it would be fun to try something different for a change. I would still propably do a 4 char party cause there is more power to it and ecl won't effect too seriously then.
TK
TK
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I would make the second cleric something other than Helm. Even a knightly party needs at least one morally substandard member. How can knights inspire others by example if there is no inferior people present to observe their greatness?
Maybe take a neutral good cleric of Lathander and have your knights constantly give examples of how the young clerics leanings towards lawlessness are causing all the destruction in the ten towns. Maybe a priest of Ohgma should join the party to be a tutor to the younger members in their schoolwork (smiting evil is no excuse for unsophisticated behavior).
A different cleric domain would give access to new spells and provide roll-playing opportunities. A cleric of Lathander with spirit of flame could be very good to have with this party.
Maybe take a neutral good cleric of Lathander and have your knights constantly give examples of how the young clerics leanings towards lawlessness are causing all the destruction in the ten towns. Maybe a priest of Ohgma should join the party to be a tutor to the younger members in their schoolwork (smiting evil is no excuse for unsophisticated behavior).
A different cleric domain would give access to new spells and provide roll-playing opportunities. A cleric of Lathander with spirit of flame could be very good to have with this party.
Hey Cormac, Ilike the knights of Helm theory. But maybe, just maybe, you could add a couple of levels of Sorceror or rogue. Rollplaying perspective, only for purposes of skill. I could see a knight, (maybe a blacksmith knowing how to trim a lock or find some traps. Also maybe a sorceror so you don't cast but have the awespects of manipulation. A few anagazzars scourchers and a burning hands will toast those jellies. Also really low levels. Just a thought, keep skill in mind, not profession.
Screamming!!!!!!!!!!!!
[QUOTE=Patrick]maybe a blacksmith knowing how to trim a lock[/QUOTE]
In pen-and-paper Dungeons & Dragons, I often use that rogue idea when I don't want to be a sneaky thief. Usually I pick a dwarf to fit that character type.
Though admittedly, in this Knights of Helm party, a dwarf would be rather misplaced.
However, if you (Cormac) are concerned about the lack of rogue skills or ranged weapons, perhaps you could include a rogue and/or a ranger as a squire or two for your knights. Somewhat similarly, you could include a wizard as someone being escorted by said knights, if you find the game too difficult without arcane firepower. I'm reminded of Morgan le Fay or whatever her name was from the Bretonnian army in Warhammer. A female arcanist that the knights worship or whathaveyou as a sort of figurehead or matron.
In pen-and-paper Dungeons & Dragons, I often use that rogue idea when I don't want to be a sneaky thief. Usually I pick a dwarf to fit that character type.
Though admittedly, in this Knights of Helm party, a dwarf would be rather misplaced.
However, if you (Cormac) are concerned about the lack of rogue skills or ranged weapons, perhaps you could include a rogue and/or a ranger as a squire or two for your knights. Somewhat similarly, you could include a wizard as someone being escorted by said knights, if you find the game too difficult without arcane firepower. I'm reminded of Morgan le Fay or whatever her name was from the Bretonnian army in Warhammer. A female arcanist that the knights worship or whathaveyou as a sort of figurehead or matron.
Old topic, but I didn't know the answer just yet at the time.
The answer is... yes. In normal mode
My non-mage party was:
Priest of Ilmater
Priest of Oghma
Barbarian/Fighter(4)
Paladin/Fighter(4)
Druid
Ranger/Fighter(4)
The Druid, ranger, and one of the priests used primarily missile weapons, the barbarian used big axes, the other priest used a mace, the paladin used long sword and shield.
It was pretty straight forward hack 'n slash. Two healers made it pretty easy. I didn't memorize heal spells for the druid. Flame strike helped with the a few battles and the Guardian needed a few reloads, but otherwise it wasn't that hard for me.
I wouldn't try that party in HoF. Half the party could do nothing but stand aside and wait for the priests and summons to do their thing.
And on a side note, if you replace one fighter combo with a bard, it all becomes really easy.
The answer is... yes. In normal mode
My non-mage party was:
Priest of Ilmater
Priest of Oghma
Barbarian/Fighter(4)
Paladin/Fighter(4)
Druid
Ranger/Fighter(4)
The Druid, ranger, and one of the priests used primarily missile weapons, the barbarian used big axes, the other priest used a mace, the paladin used long sword and shield.
It was pretty straight forward hack 'n slash. Two healers made it pretty easy. I didn't memorize heal spells for the druid. Flame strike helped with the a few battles and the Guardian needed a few reloads, but otherwise it wasn't that hard for me.
I wouldn't try that party in HoF. Half the party could do nothing but stand aside and wait for the priests and summons to do their thing.
And on a side note, if you replace one fighter combo with a bard, it all becomes really easy.
I'd stick with the idea. I've completed Icewind Dale II without rogues or mages. I'm more of a melee fighter anyway, so I did something similar with Paladins, Priests, and Fighters thrown in. The game is hard without some of the extra help that rogues and mages present, but it is possible, I can say from experience!
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The Council of Four Perverts: (1) Magrus (2) Darth Zenemij (3) Erenor (4) Luis Antonio
--Tercero Xavier Harkonnen, to the Salusan Militia
The Council of Four Perverts: (1) Magrus (2) Darth Zenemij (3) Erenor (4) Luis Antonio
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