I don't think he meant that the DM is a deity deserving worship, but rather that his decisions are absolute and whatnot.
Of course, the problem arises when the DM abuses that... But then he runs the risk of his players deserting him.
I was going to make a joke about that race of humans from The Book of Vile Darkness that kill gods, but I forgot what they are called. Go me.
House Rules
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AarronIkarus
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[QUOTE=Aramant]I don't think he meant that the DM is a deity deserving worship, but rather that his decisions are absolute and whatnot.
Of course, the problem arises when the DM abuses that... But then he runs the risk of his players deserting him.
[/QUOTE]
Precisely. The DM's word is final. I have been in games where the DM has abused his authority, though, and they were considerably less than entertaining. On the other hand, I have also been in games where the DM let the players walk all over him. They were just as discouraging. These situations frequently happen in groups who have not played together for long.
Of course, the problem arises when the DM abuses that... But then he runs the risk of his players deserting him.
[/QUOTE]
Precisely. The DM's word is final. I have been in games where the DM has abused his authority, though, and they were considerably less than entertaining. On the other hand, I have also been in games where the DM let the players walk all over him. They were just as discouraging. These situations frequently happen in groups who have not played together for long.
Live fast. Fight hard. Die in a blaze of glory.
[QUOTE=AarronIkarus]On the other hand, I have also been in games where the DM let the players walk all over him.[/QUOTE]
This can also happen when the DM is in a relationship with a player. I was in that kind of situation, but... well, my overwhelming sense of fairness outweighed my desire for peace in my relationship.
Boy did she freak out a lot when we played... "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M PARALYZED?!"
This can also happen when the DM is in a relationship with a player. I was in that kind of situation, but... well, my overwhelming sense of fairness outweighed my desire for peace in my relationship.
Boy did she freak out a lot when we played... "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M PARALYZED?!"
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AarronIkarus
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[QUOTE=AarronIkarus]The second rule is--as far as the campaign is concerned, the DM is god. This means the DM's decision are final. There will be no arguing, or face the wrath of (insert name of vengeful deity here).[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I should have used the term absolute monarch, emeror of the world type thing. It pretty much comes out with the same results.
Perhaps I should have used the term absolute monarch, emeror of the world type thing. It pretty much comes out with the same results.
Live fast. Fight hard. Die in a blaze of glory.
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AarronIkarus
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Grimar
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[QUOTE=AarronIkarus]As an interesting side note...I did actually run into a DM in an adventure one time. He took a disliking to me and blew me away with his .38. It was a really messy thing.[/QUOTE]
what
Did you run into an DM in the game under a gaming session?
what
Did you run into an DM in the game under a gaming session?I once had a little teaparty, this afternoon at three, twas was very small, three guests in all; I, myself, and me. myself ate up the sandwhiches, while i drank up the tea. twas also i that ate the pie,and passed the cake to me
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AarronIkarus
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It was a long time ago, but I remember walking into the room and seeing this being sitting behind a table with a incredibly ornate headdress. On the table were a series of maps with little metal figurines on them. This being looked up at me, pulled out this metalic object, and pointed it at me. There were three loud bangs, and I was no more.
It was one of the more interesting encounters I have had. The living DM was very good at what he did. The NPC DM was actually controlling all the movements of the creatures in the dungeon. He had total control over everything except in one room. That was the only place where the dungeon dwellers cotrolled themselves. One NPC we ran into used that as an excuse for his evil deeds.
It was one of the more interesting encounters I have had. The living DM was very good at what he did. The NPC DM was actually controlling all the movements of the creatures in the dungeon. He had total control over everything except in one room. That was the only place where the dungeon dwellers cotrolled themselves. One NPC we ran into used that as an excuse for his evil deeds.
Live fast. Fight hard. Die in a blaze of glory.
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Grimar
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hmm. never thought of that before. But (sorry!) i don't like the idea. it is an "outside" game situation. i would say that the NPC DM was an evil powerfull wizard, which had some control spell.
I once had a little teaparty, this afternoon at three, twas was very small, three guests in all; I, myself, and me. myself ate up the sandwhiches, while i drank up the tea. twas also i that ate the pie,and passed the cake to me
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melancolly
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The DM as an avatar is very problematic. It essentially gives you an all-powerful PC in the party, which is easily abused, and which may encourage the players to suck up to you/the avatar for boons.
I say if the PCs want to fight, let them kill each other off. My rule (I'm not sure if it's in the books, or if it's a house rule) is that new characters are made at the average party level of the rest of the PCs. I also don't allow new characters to join the party unless it makes sense for them to do so (ie. I don't let them just wander up through the woods and join in), so sometimes the party will level up without the new character. This means that the new character could quite easily be at a lower level than the rest of the party, and few people want to be less powerful than everyone else. Thus, they're more careful about what they do.
Usually.
I say if the PCs want to fight, let them kill each other off. My rule (I'm not sure if it's in the books, or if it's a house rule) is that new characters are made at the average party level of the rest of the PCs. I also don't allow new characters to join the party unless it makes sense for them to do so (ie. I don't let them just wander up through the woods and join in), so sometimes the party will level up without the new character. This means that the new character could quite easily be at a lower level than the rest of the party, and few people want to be less powerful than everyone else. Thus, they're more careful about what they do.
Usually.
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jopperm2
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I always start new players at one level below APL. That way they have to work a little since they are getting free levels anyway. I work them in at a logical time. Meet at a tavern, etc..
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
In almost every game I've played in, there has been some manner of DM incarnation in the actual game. The DM character, though (usually represented by a standard alias character of ours. For instance, my friend Chris has Toku, which is a jack of all trades character. My buddy Jason has Arcane, which is typically a fighter/bard sort of character. I have Aegis, which is essentially a LAncer type character). They typically do not participate within combat (unless absolutely essential), and are around as a sort of shot in the arm character. If they can't figure something out, or seem to be dwadling around, these DM-characters are they to spur them on their way.
One of the most amusing things I've seen in our sessions is when Toku was DM'ing, and his avatar was in the battle. A dragon breathed fire at us, everyone passed their reflex save... Well, everyone except for Toku... It was a stirring memorial
One of the most amusing things I've seen in our sessions is when Toku was DM'ing, and his avatar was in the battle. A dragon breathed fire at us, everyone passed their reflex save... Well, everyone except for Toku... It was a stirring memorial
[QUOTE=Aramant]I don't think a DM needs an avatar. I mean, he has control over everyone and everything in the campaign already.[/QUOTE]
but short of Deus Ex Machina, the players still control how the game flows. I personally don't think a DM should resort to improbable events, or copp out techniques to move the story along. The DM avatar is essentially an in-game method of direction.
but short of Deus Ex Machina, the players still control how the game flows. I personally don't think a DM should resort to improbable events, or copp out techniques to move the story along. The DM avatar is essentially an in-game method of direction.
[QUOTE=Aegis]but short of Deus Ex Machina, the players still control how the game flows. I personally don't think a DM should resort to improbable events, or copp out techniques to move the story along. The DM avatar is essentially an in-game method of direction.[/QUOTE]
I think a DM's avatar is pretty much the epitome of Deus Ex Machina. A powerful dude telling them what to do or where to go (or what NOT to do and where NOT to go)? Getting them out of tough binds? It strikes me as very much a big hand pushing the party along and guiding them, and covering them from too much trouble.
I think a DM's avatar is pretty much the epitome of Deus Ex Machina. A powerful dude telling them what to do or where to go (or what NOT to do and where NOT to go)? Getting them out of tough binds? It strikes me as very much a big hand pushing the party along and guiding them, and covering them from too much trouble.
[QUOTE=Aramant]I think a DM's avatar is pretty much the epitome of Deus Ex Machina. A powerful dude telling them what to do or where to go (or what NOT to do and where NOT to go)? Getting them out of tough binds? It strikes me as very much a big hand pushing the party along and guiding them, and covering them from too much trouble.[/QUOTE]
Who said anything about powerful? I've seen a DM avatar die. Like I said, a DM avatar being used, at least in our games, isn't supposed to be in combat, and only is for certain occasions. Aside from that, the character never sees battle, never affects the way the players go about their business, or interfere. It's only used a plot device to move the game along.
Who said anything about powerful? I've seen a DM avatar die. Like I said, a DM avatar being used, at least in our games, isn't supposed to be in combat, and only is for certain occasions. Aside from that, the character never sees battle, never affects the way the players go about their business, or interfere. It's only used a plot device to move the game along.
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Cuchulain82
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I don't think the idea of a DM avatar is bad, but I do think it's kind of loaded. You have to trust that the DM won't abuse his/her power, but then again...
THEY'RE ALREADY THE DM! If you're worried about an avatar being an abuse of power then just think what is going on behind that screen! You just have to trust, I guess. Also, the part that sucks the most about DMing is that you aren't playing, so having a DM avatar that is involved kind of helps take the proverbial edge off.
As far as in-game direction goes, I agree with Aegis. As long as it's not too heavy handed players sometimes just need help getting through a section, area, etc. Usually this isn't a combat area- my players have devised ways to kill things that will amaze and baffle your mind. The spots they get stuck on are things that I think are obvious but just don't occur to them, or if they hit things out of sequence and don't necessarily put the clues together.
One technique I use is creating a skill that is a "common/spider sense" skill, or something of the like. It is something that I, as a DM, can use to say, "Player X, your character doesn't really think this is going to work out...". Obviously subtley is the key, but it works well. Alternatively it could be a feat, or based off of Wis. (I got the idea from an old White Wolf book I read)
THEY'RE ALREADY THE DM! If you're worried about an avatar being an abuse of power then just think what is going on behind that screen!
You just have to trust, I guess. Also, the part that sucks the most about DMing is that you aren't playing, so having a DM avatar that is involved kind of helps take the proverbial edge off.As far as in-game direction goes, I agree with Aegis. As long as it's not too heavy handed players sometimes just need help getting through a section, area, etc. Usually this isn't a combat area- my players have devised ways to kill things that will amaze and baffle your mind. The spots they get stuck on are things that I think are obvious but just don't occur to them, or if they hit things out of sequence and don't necessarily put the clues together.
One technique I use is creating a skill that is a "common/spider sense" skill, or something of the like. It is something that I, as a DM, can use to say, "Player X, your character doesn't really think this is going to work out...". Obviously subtley is the key, but it works well. Alternatively it could be a feat, or based off of Wis. (I got the idea from an old White Wolf book I read)
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