Wining, Dining, Flowers and Romance

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:03 am

Scayde's recent thread has set me to thinking.
She mentioned how she, like many women, enjoys unexpected flowers, the surprise of wine chilling, a spontaneous kiss while shopping.

Now, all of this struck me, because I'm not like a lot of other women in that regard. Certainly, when somebody does such things for me, I profoundly appreciate it. But, I never expect it, and it is not something that I view as particularly critical. Equally, I'm not the best at remembering to do things like this, and I'm not overly demonstrative either. It's not that I'm cold or unresponsive, or that I'm embaressed by displaying affection publicly, I just don't often think to do it...

So, how important do you consider the 'romantic touches' to be a relationship?

CM · Post by CM » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:07 am

I do and i am not a woman. WR doesn't expect it from me when I do. She has been shocked on many an occasion with what unique ideas i can come up with.

But i do feel the need for some wining and dining is necessary in a relationship. Damn it must be spring with all these conversation topics. One thing is knowing a person loves you. Another is showing it. It is necessary to show it every now and then.

Now, all of this struck me, because I'm not like a lot of other women in that regard. Certainly, when somebody does such things for me, I profoundly appreciate it. But, I never expect it, and it is not something that I view as particularly critical. ...<snip>... and I'm not overly demonstrative either. It's not that I'm cold or unresponsive, or that I'm embaressed by displaying affection publicly, I just don't often think to do it..

That is just like WR.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:15 am

"Romantic" to me is something spontaneous, showing affection and caring for your partner simply because you feel the urge to do so, and please them. The whole "your unromantic for not getting me stuff for Valentine's day" sets me off. Romantic doesn't play into holidays, springing something on someone, say November 3, in the middle of the day at work, would be.

That being said. I like doing little things to please whomever I happen to be with. I don't buy things much for them though. It's the little everyday things, that I do, everyday to remind them. I'll cook for them, and write down my thoughts of them. Even if it's not a pretty poem, they can still read it, and see that I DO think of them, at the oddest moments of the day.

I don't do flowers, they die. Not the type of thing I like expressing with a romantic action. However, I will buy something they can plant if they like to garden. Such a thing tends to symbolize that working together than make a beautiful thing to me, they tend to appreciate that more.

I like just curling up with someone, and holding them and talking. Nothing special, nothing out of the ordinary. Just, showing them I care, and I listen. Most guys neglect that I've noticed. I find it important both people do that.

As far as special things, I make it a point every so often to just downright spoil them. I see to it, they do nothing at all that could be considered work the whole day and pamper them. Whatever they want it's theirs. I tend toward thatattitude on a daily basis though aside from normal household stuff, like cleaning and what-not. I'm one of those people that's completely happy pleasing someone else and not very comfortable with it the other way around.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:15 am

I'm a lot like you DW. I don't expect it, and I'm forgetful about doing it. It's nice when it happens though. If I have reason to do something I can be pretty good at it, but I'm pretty mundane and boring most of the time.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:57 am

[QUOTE=dragon wench]Now, all of this struck me, because I'm not like a lot of other women in that regard.[/QUOTE]
Good for you. I don't expect flowers and such either, but I do expect my bf to show appreciation towards me (nice words and a hug/kiss would be quite enough). Unfortunately, he's not like that...

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:02 am

I do make those kinds of efforts every day. Just not the flowers, creative gifts, etc. kind of stuff.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:06 am

[QUOTE=jopperm2]I do make those kinds of efforts every day. Just not the flowers, creative gifts, etc. kind of stuff.[/QUOTE]
Ah, those don't count at all for me. I'm quite happy without flowers too

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:20 am

Sooo.. about that trip to Disney World you were planning.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:27 pm

After some fourteen years together, I have still not managed to completely beat the romance out of my hubby. I would be as surprised if he forgot Valentines, as he would if I remembered. He has tempered his ways over the years now, though, understanding simple things like putting a duster around the place, or taking the kids off my hands for a couple of hours, is just as "romantic" to me as buying me a bunch of flowers to thank me for doing it all!

I am being unfair, he does more than most men I know in respect of domestic chores, and he is more expressive than I often appear receptive if I was to be truthful. He knows I love him though!

My idea of romancing him? I might buy him something for the car, the twin exhaust was the last thing, or was it the spoiler? then taking pleasure from his "Aw! thanks!" and watching him lovingly polish them!

My idea of him "romancing" me? I dunno, I am easily pleased and don't like the fuss. Anything that contributes to harmony in the home, ie seeing him spending fun time with the kids, where I can sit on the outside and smile is often enough for me

That said...he has booked a long stag weekend to Rio over our wedding anniversary......I am still tacking up points to see where I can spend them!

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:10 pm

[QUOTE=Magrus]"Romantic" to me is something spontaneous, showing affection and caring for your partner simply because you feel the urge to do so, and please them. The whole "your unromantic for not getting me stuff for Valentine's day" sets me off. Romantic doesn't play into holidays, springing something on someone, say November 3, in the middle of the day at work, would be.

That being said. I like doing little things to please whomever I happen to be with. I don't buy things much for them though. It's the little everyday things, that I do, everyday to remind them. I'll cook for them, and write down my thoughts of them. Even if it's not a pretty poem, they can still read it, and see that I DO think of them, at the oddest moments of the day.

I don't do flowers, they die. Not the type of thing I like expressing with a romantic action. However, I will buy something they can plant if they like to garden. Such a thing tends to symbolize that working together than make a beautiful thing to me, they tend to appreciate that more.

I like just curling up with someone, and holding them and talking. Nothing special, nothing out of the ordinary. Just, showing them I care, and I listen. Most guys neglect that I've noticed. I find it important both people do that.

As far as special things, I make it a point every so often to just downright spoil them. I see to it, they do nothing at all that could be considered work the whole day and pamper them. Whatever they want it's theirs. I tend toward thatattitude on a daily basis though aside from normal household stuff, like cleaning and what-not. I'm one of those people that's completely happy pleasing someone else and not very comfortable with it the other way around.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I can relate to that a whole lot. I remember this past v-day I caught up with my ex (when we were still were going out) and apperently she was visiting alyson and alyson's kid sister, while cody was over here with me, me and her talked like we used to some time ago. We would talk about how much we loved each other and how much we cared for each other and what not. She was glad to talk to me, We were talking about promise rings the very next day... I just can't see how it didn't work out in the end though.

I just still get these happy and fuzzy feelings inside just thinking of her

. We still talk and flirt... But I won't rush it., I don't want to ruin it either

.But other than that yeah just some alone time with my special some one is what I would put under a must do in any relationship

.

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:16 am

I was pleased to hear that DW was not adverse to public displays of affection. I have borrowed BS’ video monitoring equipment, just in case, so I can add to my collection.

One thing I have found difficult for people is that the word "romance" tends to have been co-opted by Hallmark. In my mind, romance is not defined so much by your definition as by your partner's definition. Read, "The Five Love Languages" if you are interested in exploring this further. There is one love language that deals with gifts, and that type of person may feel romantic if you buy them flowers or chocolates, but that is only one out of five.

To me, romance isn't something you turn on and off. Like embers in a fire, there needs to be a certain level of intimacy present much of the time in order for romance to really blossom. Helping your partner do the laundry may not seem romantic, but the conversation, laughter, and pillow fights are certainly a prelude to it. Moments like these ground the authenticity of your romantic gestures and create a milieu for the expression, not of Xin Fire, which comes quickly and dies quickly, but for the men ming, the Fire that arises from Water, the fire that according to Chinese medicine will burn forever.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:16 am

[QUOTE=dragon wench]So, how important do you consider the 'romantic touches' to be a relationship?[/QUOTE]
Romance is important to my realtionships, but I think of it more as intimacy than Hallmark-style "romance". For me, like Magrus and others, romance isn't an elaborate series of events or gifts, but rather time spent with someone I love. I also think that little things are the key- kissing her goodbye in the morning, taking her out for a fun dinner every so often, and generally spending time focusing on each other, and not just existing in the same space. I also think that if you try too hard to generate romance, or overemphasize it, a relationship can suffocate under the weight of expectation.

Re: Valentine's day- no other holiday brings me so much anxiety, nervousness, and apprehension. As a guy, the onus is on me to generate a romanitic evening that will go off without a hitch (you can protest as loudly as possible ladies, but I can not believe that there is a woman out there who doesn't expect at least a little something special on V-Day). Somehow, I always mess it up, and in the past this has ended up very badly (the gf crying, me in the dog house, etc.) V-Day is inherantly bad for me, because if everything I do goes perfectly, and I haven't totally destroyed the evening, that is a the best I can do.

frogus23 · Post by **frogus23** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:24 am

I agree with Thantor completely,

Romance does not take its form in objects, gestures or 'moments' (*spits*) it is more cloud like, or atmospheric.

So a bunch of flowers, the wine in the cooler etc will not seem 'romantic' if you two feel good about each other already, it will just be appropriate, just the normal behaviour for your mood.

On the other hand, if you two do not feel romantic, if you have lost the romance in your conversation and everyday encounters then the wine and flowers will still not be romantic, they will be out-of-place, forced and impotent.

So no, there is nothing romantic about flowers, wine or small kisses, (especially not such packaged cliches as flowers and wine). The only romantic thing in life is real romance, which is inevitably difficult to define or pin-down.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:33 am

dragon wench wrote: She mentioned how she, like many women, enjoys unexpected flowers, the surprise of wine chilling, a spontaneous kiss while shopping.

Personally I am the most unromantic person one can think of when it comes to flowers, gifts or wining & dining. I enjoy colourful flowers in the rainforest, not in vase, and I only appreciate gifts if it is something I really want, or from a person who wants to express something positive which I didn't expect at all. One example of the latter was two candidates I was supervisor for, who bought me a CD and wrote a card where they expressed how much they had appreciated me as a supervisor. In Sweden it is not common that you give gifts in this context, so that I really appreciated although I gave away the CD to a colleague because it was an artist I don't care particularly for.

Romantic gifts I can't really think of what it would be. A nice dinner is nice, but I eat out with all my friends and colleagues as well as my partner and I don't think there is anything romantic to it. Also, I'm not a gourmand, I don't really appreciate very good food very much - I'm as long as it's better than seal intestinies and living beetles.

So, how important do you consider the 'romantic touches' to be a relationship?

If romantic is what you see in Hollywood movies, I prefer to keep it out of my relationships. However, there are things I personally define as expressions and reinforcement of love, which I appreciate and strive to keep in my relationships. To me, such things are defined by being spontanous and unexpected, just as Magrus describes. It could be to try out a new activity none of us has tried before, to go to a new place where none of us has been before, or it could be one of those moments during an intense conversation when you feel you have an extraordinary contact and you really feel your partner contributes with something new to your thinking. I am a very novelty-oriented personality type, so what I find "romantic" will mostly involve events that bring forth new experiences of some kind to both parties, which in turn leads to something new happening between us.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:51 am

@Than,
lmao!

You have a particularly unhealthy fixation with cameras and various other recording devices; have you thought about consulting somebody about this issue?

lol@CE re: the beatles and guts

When you've had such experiences I guess it really does bring a whole new perspective to our notions on food

@Cuchulain, would you believe me if I said that in our 15 years together my SO and I have never celebrated VDay?

I don't generally care for the socially preordained and contrived definitions of coupledom and romance.

I think it is the underlying connection and the spontaneous, unexpected moments that are special. Here is a very recent personal example

At the end of last week my SO and I speculated driving down to Seattle on Saturday. Our son was not thrilled at the thought of a 2-3 hour car trip, and then traipsing around so he requested to stay with my father for the weekend. Well Saturday dawned... but we failed to rise with the dawn

To further reduce the incentive for a drive, a glance out of the window confirmed that the price of gas had went up yet *again*.

So, we quite unexpectedly had the day for 'couple' time. We spontaneously decided to try out a new place for brunch, then wandered to the market and thought up a tasty meal to cook later... etc.
We had not planned for a 'date day' and I think this is what really made it wonderful. Throughout the day, I don't think either of us even consciously thought about whether or not there was anything "romantic," about the time we were spending together, it just seemed normal and appropriate. All too often, as Cuchulain mentions re:VDay, when there is an expectation that an occasion *should* be "romantic," there are far too many pressures and definitions of what should or should not occur, which inevitably leads to tensions, dissapointments and upset IMO.

[quote="Frogus]I agree with Thantor completely"]

I think this is probably true as well. My SO and I had been dealing with some tensions before I went away for a couple of weeks, and since my return we have each been quietly working on trying to repair the bruises

As much as anything, the day we had directly resulted from the fact that things were already feeling pretty good.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:11 am

[QUOTE=dragon wench]@Cuchulain, would you believe me if I said that in our 15 years together my SO and I have never celebrated VDay?

[/QUOTE]
I hear the words, but I don't know how to take it to heart. IMO, every woman has a soft spot for romance. V-Day is so difficult because if you buy into the idea of "romance", you almost have to buy into the idea of V-Day. I believe that you haven't ever deliberately celebrated V-Day, but are you sure you haven't ever, not even once, done something a little special... and this just happen to occur near the middle of February?

I still think that all the hearts, cards, flowers, and general buzz about romance during that time of year creates an expectation. However, maybe this is just an American thing- in Europe and Canada, V-Day may not exist in the same way (and if that is the case, you European and Canadian men should treasure that lucky break

)

[QUOTE=dragon wench]I don't generally care for the socially preordained and contrived definitions of coupledom and romance... I also agree that it is the underlying connection and the spontaneous, unexpected moments that are special. [/QUOTE]
I agree. You should be with someone because you want to be with them. Almost always that is not easy, but your SO should make you happy. Love, though complicated, is usually worth it

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:26 am

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]I hear the words, but I don't know how to take it to heart. IMO, every woman has a soft spot for romance. V-Day is so difficult because if you buy into the idea of "romance", you almost have to buy into the idea of V-Day. I believe that you haven't ever deliberately celebrated V-Day, but are you sure you haven't ever, not even once, done something a little special... and this just happen to occur near the middle of February?

I still think that all the hearts, cards, flowers, and general buzz about romance during that time of year creates an expectation. However, maybe this is just an American thing- in Europe and Canada, V-Day may not exist in the same way (and if that is the case, you European and Canadian men should treasure that lucky break

)

I agree. You should be with someone because you want to be with them. Almost always that is not easy, but your SO should make you happy. Love, though complicated, is usually worth it

[/QUOTE]

*grins* I'm pretty weird where VDay is concerned. I genuinely have never, even deep down, wished for some kind of "romantic," gesture from my partner on that date. In Canada, VDay is as big a deal as in the US. But, for a long time it was much less so in Europe. I was born in Europe and have spent a lot of time there, so it is very probable that I've been culturally influenced. That being said, I quite often will give cards to close male friends on VDay, and they will give them to me. Perhaps I'm comfortable with this because it does somewhat defy the usual expectations, I'm not quite sure.
Yes, my partner and I have done special things around the middle of February, but that has been to celebrate his birthday and my son's birthday. (My SO is born on the 16 th, our son on the 12 th... while I was pregnant we were actually mortified at the possibility that our child could be born on either Vday or my SO's birthday

)

lol! That last part of your post is one loaded understatement !

Indeed, yes, one's partner should make them happy, but of course there are times when this is not the case, and things become rocky. This is one point where relationships are decidedly complicated. Successfully maintaining a relationship takes so much hard work, and I have the feeling many people don't realise just how much hard work is actually entailed. For example, I have a terminally single friend who has a distinctly idealised view of relationships (and she becomes profoundly depressed on VDay

); I am always telling her she has no idea just how much easier it is to be single, but she never really grasps what I mean.
This is part of what is so sad where Vday and similar concepts are concerned, IMO. There is such incredible emphasis in our society on an appointed day for flowers and "romance," yet so little attention is paid to all of those underlying things that truly count. *sigh*

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:31 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]@Than,
lmao!

You have a particularly unhealthy fixation with cameras and various other recording devices; have you thought about consulting somebody about this issue?

[/QUOTE]

I did consult with some about this, but he moved to Ventura to pursue an opportunity with a company that produces reality shows before we really had a chance to do the surveillance module of his program. Videographers are a fickle lot.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:38 pm

[QUOTE=thantor3]I did consult with some about this, but he moved to Ventura to pursue an opportunity with a company that produces reality shows before we really had a chance to do the surveillance module of his program. Videographers are a fickle lot.

[/QUOTE]

lol!!!

And here I thought that your 'publication' interests were always pure and above board

I feel so deluded.....

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:45 pm

Cuchulain82 wrote:IMO, every woman has a soft spot for romance. V-Day is so difficult because if you buy into the idea of "romance", you almost have to buy into the idea of V-Day.

I am a European woman and I have never celebrated Valentines day, nor has any of my friends as far as I know. It's not at all as big a think in Europe as it is in the US, although it has grown bigger over the last decade than before. Personally, I think the idea is disgusting.

Do you think women are more romantic than men? If so, I suspect you tend to select more traditional women in your social sphere.

I still think that all the hearts, cards, flowers, and general buzz about romance during that time of year creates an expectation.

In some people yes, in others it creates reluctance and rejection. As you can see in this thread, there is a fair amount of people who defines romance as something spontanous, out of the ordinary, unexpected, etc.

PS. I have American friends as well, and I don't know any American women - or men - who celebrates Valentines day.