"Damsel in Distress"

winter rose · Post by **winter rose** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:28 pm

Now how shall I start this off. I suppose this is more of a poll than anything else, but it would be interesting if you people could expand on your ideas.

How many of you believe that it is your job to defend your significant other.Of course dont just go by the title - the females here can save the guy in distress too.

I guess however, that men believe more than we women do- (generalization I know) that they have to do everything in their power to protect or defend their female other halfs. Exactly where do you all stand in this? Of course I think that women should also be able to not just stand by their men, but they should also do their part in defending if the guy is insulted/attacked/abused.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:55 pm

Well if my spouse was ever verbaly attacked or physicaly attacked then I would want to beat them sensless. But it would depend on the person reason and what even provoked them in the first place to attack her. But I always don't resort to Violence.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:04 pm

An interesting topic

I guess my feelings on this one are quite mixed. When somebody I care about (be it a partner or close male friend) charges to my defense I end up feeling two very distinct and opposing emotions. On one hand, I admit.. I feel deeply touched... Yet, on the other, I tend to be a bit irritated, I'll think, "What? do you consider me too weak to do this on my own?"
Though, it very much depends on the person, the way it is done, and my mood at the time. Yes... I'm fickle...

Regarding the reverse situation, I have no qualms about defending my SO if it feels appropriate for me to step in. Indeed, because I've always attempted to buck the system, I am not bothered at the thought of defending my partner.

I liken some of this this to the schoolyard politics my son becomes involved in. I feel protective of him, but I don't step in unless it looks as though he will be very hurt, not unless he asks me to. Much of it is about respecting boundaries I think....

A lot of this boils down to stereotypical and expected gender roles, as well as the politics surrounding the whole area. Like many women, I can feel uncomfortable when a guy defends me, but I never lash out because I know how confusing it is for guys now.. they never know how a woman is going to react in many circumstances.

However, do I consider it necessary in either case? No, not really. Though again, it really does depend on the situation and the people involved

CM · Post by CM » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:19 pm

If someone insults you i will step in. Just like on monday and no amount of whining will change that fact.

So go on and have your discussion it changes nothing so there! HA!!

winter rose · Post by **winter rose** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:31 pm

[QUOTE=CM]If someone insults you i will step in. Just like on monday and no amount of whining will change that fact.

So go on and have your discussion it changes nothing so there! HA!!

[/QUOTE]

You know I was not whining! I was simply wondering how other people felt. I didnt do it to have you change your mind.So there! Ps me a damsel in distress pffttt!

darth --- I didnt mean just physical.Although Ive had my bro get into a fight with another guy because the guy made some stupid comment towards me.Scary stuff.I yelled at my bro afterwards for a good half hour.

DW--- Well I guess I tend to do the same.I dont feel that Im weak when somebody comes to my defense (in this case its the above guy CM) - I just feel he shouldnt have to defend me.I prefer to fight my own battles.I dont mind being insulted etc, but I cant stand it if somebody I care about is attacked or insulted. And when somebody comes to my defense - yes I love them for it, who wouldnt, it just feels strange having somebody be so protective.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:55 pm

when i step into help a lady, i do it with the intension they dont feel weak, but that they have friends there to help them. god help the man that hits a woman and i see it. id kill for that.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:45 pm

Generally, given the experiences the girls I've dated have gone through they are far more capable of dealing with being attacked than most other people. However, on the flip side, being attacked has made them break down from what they've dealt with and the memories of it.

I'm known to step in and scare off anyone who goes after my gf, or friends in general. Woe to the person who attacks my loved ones in my presence. Someone threw a chair at my young friend, the one who's baby I watch every week about 4, 5 years ago while we were in school. I heard it from down the hall and heard her scream. I left my class and went after him. He tried hitting me with the same chair and I knocked it back into him and proceeded to run him out of the building attempting to club him with it. If I hadn't been so enraged as to think to drop the chair when running after him, I would have caught him and really hurt him. It's probably good I wasn't thinking clearly. I was about twice his size and 4 years older than him.

I've got a nasty temper and seeing someone hurt my friends and loved ones sets it off with a vengeance. One of my girlfriends dealt with a great deal of abuse and kept me away from her family because of it. The day I had to step in between my gf, her mother and her step-father was NASTY. She had to drag me from the house after the mother hit me and I nearly snapped and went to hit her back.

I have absolutely not gender stereotypes with who not to hit. I've been hit by boys and girls, and honestly, anyone with the nerve to physically strike me deserves the same response.

As far as the reverse, often my SO, or even friends, step in to defend me. I don't mind this, as I know why they do it. They know very well I can take care of myself. However, they also know my temper and step in to diffuse the situation and allow me to control it. My ex in my old avatar once put a knife into someones forearm for coming after me. Quite a bit extreme, but neither of us saw the person again.

However, there are times when what I see goes too far and I simply push my SO or friends out of the way and go after a person. The day one of my friends broke down next to me when sighting the guy who raped her while we were out was a bad day. She had to latch herself onto me to keep me from being arrested for going after him and beating him into the ground.

I've gotten into arguments with people who go after my loved ones that on occasion leave them crying and hysterical. Oddly enough, it's more often guys than girls. The girls have sense enough to avoid continuing it with me, unless we're dating of course.

Generally though, I'll allow whomever I'm with to look after themselves unless in knowing them, I know they aren't able to handle the situation well. My ex and her parents for example, if she didn't do what she was told she was hit, and if she faught back with her mother, the step-father joined in and she had no chance. I therefore stepped in to protect her. My friend, she's tiny and won't fight, her being struck by a chair set me off knowing this. She's afraid cleaning will kill bugs and she gets upset by that, why hit her? She won't fight back whatsoever and yet, when I had arrived he was attempting to hit her again. I didn't think the boy had enough nerve to try hitting me with that chair, but boy did he run afterwards.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:08 pm

Since going through training, I don't fight. It's not necessarily what I know, it's that I've been drilled to fight to win. If I get into a fight, only one of us will walk away. If someone pulls a weapon, they best know how to use it.

So frankly, I avoid physical conflict now. It's not worth it to me to a) hurt someone that badly or b) myself get hurt that badly.

I'm not above intimidation though. I'm a fairly small man, but I've found that if you get very very queit, and quite close, people back down, because honestly, they don't know you. Calling guys "boy" or "son" works good to.

"Just walk away boy, right now".

Would I defend my friends and family? yes, to the death and without hesistation. But against insults and slander? Frankly, my friends and family give as good as they get.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:44 pm

I'm extremely protective of every woman in my life, doesn't matter if I'm romantically involved, or not. But, I have learned to be so in a manner that doesn't denote possesiveness/ownership, and one that doesn't disempower the woman. In situations at bars, or what not, I'm simply a presence. Not one over the shoulder, but usually across the table. If I notice something happening, in which my friend may be needing a hand, I wait for a subtle signal (usually a flash of their eyes), at which point I'm there, and I deal with it calmly.

If they decide to make more of it, well, I'm ready to take them outside first, before they cause trouble in the bar.

My friends appreciate the manner in which I do this, and appreciate the fact I do it, period.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:55 pm

I'm the same way with fighting. I lack any formal martial training, but what I went through as a child taught me a few things. If someone has the nerve to strike you and cause bodily harm, chances are they will continue doing so until stopped. My instinct now is to maim and put down anyone who has the nerve to strike me. Failing to do so as a child out of mercy caused me quite a lot of pain and regret.

I've viewed it as only fair to warn others when they get aggressive how I'll act if things get violent because of my instincts. The last person to draw blood on me, I didn't stop hitting him until he was unconcious and had stopped struggling. Ever since I started staring people down and handing out the warning that if I'm hit I won't stop until they've stopped moving or put me unconcious, very few people have gone that next step from words to violence. They sputter, act tough and then scurry off for the most part.

I have a wicked temper, and can be quite violent when pressed. However, it takes quite a bit to make me break my self-restraint I've managed to build up to control my temper and act on it in a violent manner. Someone hurting my friends is probably the fastest way to accomplish that though. If you hurt me, I'll scare you off first. If you hurt a friend, I don't ask questions or talk. If you can't run faster than me you go down unless my friend who was hurt puts themselves in front of you. My younger brother is the same way from how we were forced to grow up.

I remember when we were maybe 9 and 7 respectively, a friend of my brothers got hit by some kids who were probably about 13-15. He got surrounded by 4 of them, and they were kicking him on the ground. He couldn't fight back because they had hit him in the chest and caused him to have an asthma attack. The kids had no clue what was going on and kept kicking him, if my brother hadn't intervened and fought them off and I hadn't gone to get his aunt he probably would have died. I'm shocked at the results of that fight to be honest. The two of us knocked down to kids our own age who thought it was cool to join in and two of the bigger kids, and I ran off to get his aunt while my brother fought off the other two. I honestly think we gave those kids quite the shock, but it took our friend the rest of the day before he was well enough to get up on his own. He took one awful beating before we put a stop to it. Not to mention the asthma attack he suffered through during it.

I still wonder how the two of us did it, outnumbered and with kids twice our age and size almost. I don't think they were expecting it, and it's hard to fight when someone goes after your knees.

I have a feeling if they had known we would defend our friend things would have been a lot different in that fight. I'm not sure he would have survived if things had gone differently.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:04 pm

Depends fully on the situation, but as a basis if the other person can handle themselves in the "conflict", then I don't see the need to interveen on their part and "handle it for them".
But, if I see somebody "I care about" in a situation they can't handle, then I'll try and help, but heck that goes for anybody from friends to familiy, and it not gender specific. I'd help a male friend as much as a female, I don't see women as "weaker" needing to be "protected".

But basically - I'd rather walk away from a possible "fight" or conflict because I find the idea of such primal actions to be a lack of intelligence from the people involved in the conflict. Of course, there are likely situations where it can't be avoided, but I've never placed nor found myself or anybody I cared about in such a situation.

winter rose · Post by **winter rose** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:15 am

Demortis , Xandax, Aegis, Obsidian and Magrus thanks for the comments!

But all in all I have to say that men are more protective of women. Perhaps its the whole physical sizes... but that seems to be obvious. When I go out with my brothers, they're both on either side of me, and I think they find it fun to be the 'protectors' - I dont mind too much, only wish they would think things through as much as I do.No fun trying to drag them away from a fight, they think their being insulted if I do.But luckily there have only been a few such incidents.

I have a horrible temper too, and if people that I care about are insulted its next to impossible for me to just let it go. I honestly have such rage against those people , even scares me at times.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Winter Rose, DW-

I think that at some level almost all women want to be rescued/saved/protected (for lack of better words), and that all men want to do the saving/protecting/rescuing. I think this has more to do with gender than sex however, and I realize that both sexes have mixed feelings about this.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:20 pm

I'm not particularly protective of women. I would defend my wife, but that's because I know she expects that.

I do get a little upset if people try to protect me though.

giles337 · Post by **giles337** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:23 pm

Interesting topic WR! To be honest, I have punched a few people in defence of girls, but only when defendign friends, never romantically.

Demortis · Post by **Demortis** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:54 pm

i generaly dont like it when people help me. i will accept the help. i had an ex get insulted and she tried to rip the guys head off. i managed to stop her, and help her walk away from the fight. but the guy wouldnt stop till i got involved.

question: if someone called a woman a "whore". should the guy standing there trying to break up the fight hit the person who called her one?

well, i did. and got takin to the deans for it. i was let off for defending a friend, and my ex loved it when i hit the guy. but didnt like that i was getting punished for defending her honor.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:59 pm

@WR

Your definately right, guys do enjoy playing the protector. Could be it's cultural, could be instinctive, hell, I don't know. But I never mind being called in for help.

It probably appeals on a deep "I'm tough and scary" level.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:42 am

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]I think that at some level almost all women want to be rescued/saved/protected (for lack of better words), and that all men want to do the saving/protecting/rescuing. I think this has more to do with gender than sex however, and I realize that both sexes have mixed feelings about this.[/QUOTE]

I am quite sure such behaviour are gender stereotypes and not actually sex related. However, if I was abused by some physicall violent offender, I wouldn't care who stepped in to help me as long as I got help. The saviours gender would be the least important issue I could imagine!

Personally, I would be dissappointed in any person man who tried to "defend" me again verbal attacks. If somebody calls me an invective, like "whore", it should be must choice how I wish to respond, not my friends or partners choice. It an integrity thing, not a gender thing.

If a man tries to defend me because I am a woman and he is a man, I would not be very interested in further contact with that man since I am utterly bored by people who follow gender stereotypes. A man who is "playing the protector" because it makes him feel more "manly" would be an embarrasment to me actually, since I would view it as a marker for personal insecurity and immaturity.

[quote="Xandax]
But"]

You are my man, Xandax - if I ever divorce, I'll catch the first flight to Denmark

That is to say, I totally agree with what you wrote above.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:05 am

[QUOTE=winter rose]I guess however, that men believe more than we women do- (generalization I know) that they have to do everything in their power to protect or defend their female other halfs. Exactly where do you all stand in this? Of course I think that women should also be able to not just stand by their men, but they should also do their part in defending if the guy is insulted/attacked/abused.[/QUOTE]

I keep hearing about this "protective gene" from the popular press "that men have to save their mates." It dates back (we're told) to prehistoric times, when men guarded the camps while women suckled the young. That's arrant blaitherskite, in my opinion. First, women were never baby factories, so they certainly could (and in a few societies we know of, did) take up arms alongside men, despite the greater upper body strength of the average male. Second, I don't think that any activity engaged in for a lifetime by several generations, automatically translates into genetic material: if you're an accountant, and your parents and grandparents were accountants, chances are you'll be brought up in a household that encourages those skills leading to success in that profession. But you won't carry accountancy in your genetic material--so by way of analogy, men gathering around to protect a campfire wouldn't create a special protective gene.

I think this is a case again of nuture being mistaken for nature. The culture trains young male children to be protective of girls. ("Now, Jimmy, you take care of your sister--she's a girl.") Personally, I've never understood this; it looked like rank condescension, to me. If I thought what skills I had could help out in a situation involving personal duress, the sex of the person I was helpinng would have nothing to do with it.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:15 am

RE:CE

Just because an observation is similar to a stereotype doesn't make it less valid, does it? My observation is that gender roles, whether they are socially or biologically created, are a very real phenomenon. I don't doubt that you think of yourself as not wanting to be rescued, but my impression is that it is your nature to take a more patient, clinical approach to most situations. I mean, you were the person who told me about how you didn't have any use for Valentine's day. (not that I disagree with you about that either

)

While I may again be selecting "more traditional women in my social sphere"

, most of my experience with said women indicates that their reactions are very similar to DW's- conflicted. At some level they want to be rescued and taken care of by the proverbial prince charming, but at another level they resent any attempt by a man to protect them. I think men sometimes have similar internal conflicts between wanting to be chivalrous and not wanting to be a macho idiot. I don't think that these inclinations are set in stone, but I do think they exist in a broad sense.

Edit- Re: Fable

While I agree with what you are saying, a question came to mind: if the basis of the "protective instinct" is cultural, how can one explain the trans-cultural existence of this instinct? What I mean is that the phenomenon of men protecting (or dominating) women is not limited just to one culture or region, and so does that undermine the idea that this phenomenon is a completely learned phenomenon.