Pope John Paul II, 84, what happens next?

Silur · Post by **Silur** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:46 am

Hitler Jugend was voluntary, but if you didn't join you were pretty much outcast, so you really can't judge people for being part of it. Still, I find it somewhat amusing that a Hitler Jugend Cardinal gets elected Pope on Adolf Hitlers birthday...

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:03 am

But Hitler's birthday was the 20th of April. Not the 19th. So you're wrong buddy boy ^^

ik911 · Post by **ik911** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:53 am

[QUOTE=Adahn]But Hitler's birthday was the 20th of April. Not the 19th. So you're wrong buddy boy ^^[/QUOTE]
Well, the 20th was a monday, so he celebrated it a day earlier...
Or...
Charles Darwin died on the 19th of April, maybe that's the connection...

BTW Adahn, how do you know that so well?

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:19 pm

I've also heard that though his name was listed on the roster, he never attended any functions at all and he dropped out after seminary. No big deal IMO.

maverick8088 · Post by **maverick8088** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:48 pm

[QUOTE=Adahn]Oh he's only trying to make a little joke and make light of the argument. He didn't mean anything by it. I mean, the Roman Catholic Church has done everything he stated, he's just giving light sarcasm in saying that it's not like anything's really going to change. ^_^ Take it easy guys.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Adahn, you are the only one who understood my humor.

I almost didnt post that for fear of retribution, but I can't resist a little jibe at the papacy. Any office which claims infallibilty is just begging to get hammered.

@Xandax
Sorry if I came across as trolling, I didn't want to pick a fight, just laugh a little...

@ Maharlika
Lighten up.

The bloodshed caused by all Christendom is well documented as are the sex scandals. In fact, Brigadier General Frank Crozier, US Army, was documented as saying in WW2 that "the Christian Churches are the best blood lust creators we have, and we make full use of them" I'm just poking a litlle fun while improving everyone's sense of history. Learn to laugh at yourself...

maverick8088 · Post by **maverick8088** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:42 pm

[QUOTE=Magrus]
I don't recall reading anything in the bible stating "God decrees condoms spread AIDs and are not to be used, Amen". In fact, I'm fairly certain neither were mentioned at all. Therefore, it's got nothing to do with the religion or the church. Simply a personal decision which was made yes? [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=fable]Yes. It was John Paul II's viewpoint. Of course, many of his appointed bishops were more than happy to take up this line. The general anti-condom line can be extrapolated from an early Renaissance position of the RCC, but it was by no means pressed by all popes. Some deliberately downplayed it.[/QUOTE]

Took me a while to research it but there is a passage in Genesis 38:9, which tells of Onan "wasting his semen on the ground". I think this might be the scriptural backing for the policy, although it is shaky at best. IMHO family planning is a personal decision, not to be dictated.

Re: catholic view of abortion.

There is a provision in the Mosaic Law which states that if someone caused the death of an unborn infant that they were to be stoned to death. Also David spoke in Psalms about God seeing his embryo and so would seem to indicate a value of unborn life equal to that of adult life. ie. the Bible says Abortion = Murder

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:05 pm

I'm not going to harp on you because I don't think you're some whacko, but I wanted to point out a couple of things.

maverick8088 wrote:Took me a while to research it but there is a passage in Genesis 38:9, which tells of Onan "wasting his semen on the ground". I think this might be the scriptural backing for the policy, although it is shaky at best. IMHO family planning is a personal decision, not to be dictated.

What version of the bible are you using? I think this is a slanted translation. A more "pure" translation of the verse is seed, not semen. Possibly the same yes, but does it strike anyone as odd that this subtle change has been made when there isn't any need to change it except to make it "clearer" what the "intent" of the passage is. If indeed that was the intent. I have heard other interpretations as well. As I said though, nothing wrong with you, just I question who translated that bible.

Re: catholic view of abortion.

There is a provision in the Mosaic Law which states that if someone caused the death of an unborn infant that they were to be stoned to death. Also David spoke in Psalms about God seeing his embryo and so would seem to indicate a value of unborn life equal to that of adult life. ie. the Bible says Abortion = Murder

I'm not going to disagree with this, but the bible is inexplicit if anything and I think there is a lot of room for interpretation here. It gives a very unsophistocated and nonspecific idea about its intent. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a pro-choice banner waver by any standard, but neither am I a pro-life nutjob. I favor the regulation of abortion and it's restriction for instances that are not warranted. I also consider myself a Christion(sorta) and I feel that those opinions fall in line with the bible as you have mentioned.

(okay all my liberal friends here, are you proud? You finally brike my conservative spirit. I shoulda listened to Kayless and got the heck out of here.

)

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:12 pm

Jop, find yourself a liberal woman and you won't go back. Trust me.

I personally disregard anything written which people pass of as the word of a divine being. Why? Who wrote it? That divine being? No, a human did. Enough said.

As far as this new pope is concerned, I don't know him. I haven't researched him, I don't care. I don't follow him, and until he screws up and makes a decision that starts harming others like the last one, he's not my business. If and when he does, I'll have a right to judge and attack him. Until then, I'll ignore him like any other person who's involved with organized religion.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:21 pm

Ah! I've had liberal women, they're just as bad as the rest.

Always whinin about someone else's problems. Never cooking anything that looks like food. Wanting sex that makes me more tired and less satisfied. No thanks.

I have said before I don't think the bible is entirely valid. I do think it contains a lot of what God really wants though. Humans wrote all of that and the church picked the choice bits they wanted and cut the rest. It was never intended to be scripture and is mostly composed of letters.

I don't know a whole lot about B16, I personally thought that they were going to be picking someone that was low key. Maybe they just thought that he was old enough that he wouldn't cause too much damage.

Not really the best policy IMO, but who knows. Many of the cardinals are geniuses, political and otherwise; so who am I to question their motives? I'll probably never know.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:27 pm

Picking the wrong women...Republicans give me "you can't put that there!" and I leave all upset.

"Genius" is I term I take with a grain of salt. I was termed "genius" in school. Intelligence is worthless without the wisdom to use it properly, for anyone. Holy man or not. If more people knew how to use their brains, this rock would be a better place. If the RCC took what was truly written down at first and used it, things would be different than with what they've altered and kept hidden and are using now.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:41 pm

I get that from liberal women just as much, I don't think it has as much to do with ideology as with what you're trying to put where.

If it isn't "it's wrong to put that there" it's "I'm too much of an individual, empowered woman to let you just go putting things places."

True, but remember they think what they are doing is for the betterment of mankind. At least presumably they think that.

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:37 pm

[QUOTE=ik911]BTW Adahn, how do you know that so well?[/QUOTE]

I'm reading the biggest brick of them all. Hubbris - Hitler's Biography by Ian Kershaw. I've so far went from his birth to him being thrown in jail after the Munich Putch. Personally, if you concentrate on reading his early childhood and adolescence, without looking into what you know already will happen because of him. He could easily have been me, or you, or anyone else. For god sake you feel even pity for the poor guy, 'Evil vilains are not born, they're made' and I think that's the case of Adolph.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:34 am

[QUOTE=jopperm2]Ah! I've had liberal women, they're just as bad as the rest.

Always whinin about someone else's problems. Never cooking anything that looks like food. Wanting sex that makes me more tired and less satisfied. No thanks.

[/QUOTE]

Aaaahhh! Jopper, I can't believe what you're saying!

Bashing liberal women! Saying sex makes you more tired! Here I am, defending gun ownership with you and you turn around and do this to me!!! I was under the impression that all you republican-types were animals behind closed doors... oh, this is a sad day.
*cries a single, solitary tear*

Edit- Re: Magrus

You know Magurs, you could make a strong case that historically, the most influential genuises have been people of great intelligence and almost no wisdom. From scientists (Isaac Newton, Cavendish) to spiritual/cultural leaders (Socrates, or maybe Ghandi) much has been accomplished by people who either didn't have enough sense to realize the level of change they were brining about, or maybe were so intellectual that they could rationalize a completely counter-culture movement. I mean, if getting hit in the head with an apple can lead to the foundation of modern physics, I suppose anything is possible by someone who is smart enough to think of a great idea and dumb enough to go through with it.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:11 am

Haha.. Not that I"m not an animal behind closed doors, just that I am an animal for me, not her. I want less work, more pleasure.

Has anyone heard if the new pope has commented on the Rwanda situation?

ik911 · Post by **ik911** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:54 am

[QUOTE=jopperm2]Has anyone heard if the new pope has commented on the Rwanda situation?[/quote]Nope, should he? What's going on there? Aids? (That would be a surprise... not.)

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:10 am

Please everybody - stay on topic. If you wish to do spin-off then start new threads.
There is no need to discuss Hitler or similar things in this thread.

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jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:15 am

[QUOTE=ik911]Nope, should he? What's going on there? Aids? (That would be a surprise... not.)[/QUOTE]

Should he, yes, do I think he will, no. What's going on is a few priests are being tried for crimes against humanity and other things in realtion to the Hutu/Tutsi conflict in the 90s.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:43 am

[QUOTE=maverick8088]
@ Maharlika
Lighten up.

The bloodshed caused by all Christendom is well documented as are the sex scandals. In fact, Brigadier General Frank Crozier, US Army, was documented as saying in WW2 that "the Christian Churches are the best blood lust creators we have, and we make full use of them" I'm just poking a litlle fun while improving everyone's sense of history. Learn to laugh at yourself...

[/QUOTE]

I'm fully aware of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity. Don't take me for a fool who couldn't take a joke.

My issue against you was the way your post implied: i.e., you "heard" that the Papacy of the New Pope (Benedict the XVI) would officially continue and condone these things that you mentioned.

Sarcasm is always the convenient excuse...

Poking a little fun? Yeah, right. At the expense of us Catholics.