Charisma over 20 does nothing

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:01 am

Except for looking pretty on the Character Record page, of course.

Stores stop giving higher discounts after 20, and there's not much else Charisma is used for anyway, let alone requiring such a high score.

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:03 am

Nicely observed, but why did you make a topic of it, Xyx?

-Silvanerian

Sabre · Post by **Sabre** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:15 am

High Charisma gives you bonus Reaction time, and you do get more bonus after 20

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:19 am

Phew, good to know I can continue to enjoy my chrisma of 22

tyco · Post by **tyco** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 9:18 am

Wait! Hold up! I thought that high Charisma gives you more dialogue options!
I don't know all the specific examples but one is with Phaere in the underdark. Although, I do not know what the Charisma cutoff level is.
Haven't other people experienced the different numbers of dialogue options available or does the Ring of Human Influence tend to keep all players around the same Charisma score?

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 9:51 am

@Tyco, charisma will give you more dialog responses in select instances in P:T and in the Fallout series.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:07 am

Originally posted by Sabre:
High Charisma gives you bonus Reaction time, and you do get more bonus after 20

How does this work? You mean Reaction Adjustment (where people respond more favorably to you if you have high Charisma)? That bonus does indeed continue up to 24 or so, but is this actually used in the game? NPCs don't seem to be scripted to respond differently to Lord Silkenvoice (Cha 20) than to Gronk the Half-Orc (Cha 3)...

Originally posted by Tyco:
I thought that high Charisma gives you more dialogue options!

Indeed. Phaere and the Bard Stronghold quest are the only ones I know of. You need Charisma 17 at the most.

Sabre · Post by **Sabre** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:22 am

According to [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=004926"]this thread[/url], having a low Char gives you penalty for encounters; so logically, having high Cha will give you bonuses. Although I'm not sure whether it is actually used in the game or not.

Denethorn · Post by **Denethorn** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:53 am

well having a high charisma does affect encounters. The dialogue maybe different (but you either are charismatic enough or you aren't) and you sometimes get helpful items for quests.

I know this is true in BG1 anyway and I am preety sure I can remember some instances in BG2...

I think 20 charisma would be adequate anyway though

.

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:20 pm

This is bound to get some remarks

, but I find Charisma to be the most useless stat in BGII. In fact, unless I need CHA for a character class, I am perfectly comfortable in mining that stat all the way down to three. Why?

1. At the end of chapter 1, you get a ring of human influence. That sets your CHA to 18 when wearing it.

2. After the C.C. Slave/Lilacor quest, you can buy (and should buy) a longsword of the roses. Not only is it a +3 longsword (important for hitting Iron Golems!), but it also adds two to your charisma AND IT IS CUMULATIVE with the ring of human influence!

As such, when I did SoA with a straight fighter, I had an 'adventuring' configuration (for wilderness) and a 'city' configuration (ring of influence plus roses) for buying, selling, negotiating. Thus a character with a Cha of 3 *effectively* had a Cha of 20.

-Polaris

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:41 pm

Polaris, I think you should go ahead and enjoy your way of playing the game, but I think that your strategy is Cheese.

I am hereby taking the position that any PC in Baldur's Gate or SOA/TOB should have a CHA score of at least 14, if not 15, before(!) any bonuses.

I know that those characteristic points (11 or 12 of them) will have to come from some other stat, and do not have any particular effect on anything in the game, but still, that's the way it is!

My reasoning? Even though the game does not check charisma in interactions with NPC's, logically, it should. Why are Jaheira, Anomen, and Jan (etc...) willing to follow you around and risk their lives for your concerns? Do they earn any pay? No. I believe that only a charismatic individual would be able to inspire such loyalty. Aerie, Jaheira, Veronica, and Anomem are not standing in line to fall in love w/ you because you got a ring! If your character only had a CHA of 3, no NPC would even pay attention to you, let alone watch your every move and plot all kinds of schemes about you. Irenicus wouldn't WANT that soul.

Well, anyway, that's how I feel about it...throw away that ring of human influence and while you're at it don't take advantage of the stacking of:

Doom Spells
Armor of Faith
Blur
Potion of Master Thievery

[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: JDM ]

[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: THE JAKER ]

polaris · Post by **polaris** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:49 pm

Let's not get insulting here. If the game designers did NOT want your main character to use the Ring of Human Influence, then THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT IN THE GAME! Get it?

The fact is that Jaheira is with you because Gorion (and by extension the Harpers) asked her to be there. That and long association of the road can overcome negative reaction modifiers. Same applies to Minsc. As for the Ring, well....is it real or is it memorex? The point is, how would the NPCs be able to tell you are using the ring?

The same also applied in BG 1. While no ring of human influence existed, you could always have Imoen be your 'face' and you were just fine. You could get through BG 1 just fine with a CHA of 3.

Please tell me again how this is cheese? Hmmm?

-Polaris

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:03 am

I apologize that my earlier comments came off like a personal critique. I really did mean them more as a comment to the general population. Like I said "I think you should go ahead and enjoy your way of playing the game". I personally have found that it has increased my enjoyment of the game to not min/max the characterics of my PC. It just seems more "real" to me. In following the game through, I have found that the dialogues and plotlines suggest that the PC has a high Charisma.

Actually, there are a number of items that make me say "THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT IN THE GAME!" besides the Ring of Human Influence:

Shield of Balduran
Carsomyr (love it, but...)
Cloak of Mirroring

The Ring of Human Influence is a minor quest item, but the fact that it frees up approx. 12 stat points for other characteristics makes it into a major exploit. (but then, it sure is great if you want to make those 18/18/18/18 "unstoppable dominator war machines"...but then, why even wear the ring?)

There are in fact a number of items that are placed in the game for you, that can nonetheless be used in the construction of "cheese omelettes", and their use perhaps contributes to the number of posts on this forum complaining about the game not being challenging enough. But you know, just because it's there...

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 5:48 am

Originally posted by THE JAKER:
any PC in Baldur's Gate or SOA/TOB should have a CHA score of at least 14, if not 15, before(!) any bonuses.

I have troubles imagining that big, ugly Half-Orc you see in the Character Creation Portrets as having anything other than Charisma below 10 (at the very least).

Then again, why Aerie, Jaheira and Viconia fight over some Charisma 3 lummox is indeed beyond me. Apparently divine heritage brings some enormous animal magnetism perk...

As for NPCs not being interested in you... Korgan wants to get paid. Viconia has nowhere else to go. Keldorn wants to be there in person to ensure you behave... In fact, none of them follow you around "just because you're such a groovy guy".

Originally posted by THE JAKER:
there are a number of items that make me say "THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT IN THE GAME!" besides the Ring of Human Influence:

Shield of Balduran
Carsomyr (love it, but...)
Cloak of Mirroring

The Cloak is the worst, IMO, even in "balanced" ToB form. It does to enemy spellcasters what a 90% damage resistance armor would do to the rest. Of course, there's always the Big Metal Unit...

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 8:27 am

Fallout is intellygence

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:31 am

Xyx, I agree w/ Underdog on the half-orc charisma. I play a half-orc cleric-theif sometimes using the big dumb h-o portrait, but he has a charisma of 16. I imagine him as a sort of tribal chieftain. He has the personality to motivate his followers into battle. They follow him unquestioningly. Korgan doesn't think to himself 'I would be a better leader'. Veronica doesn't think 'maybe I should go be with that other evil adventuring party - or that one - or that one.'

I completely agree that being the child of a god gives "an enormous animal magnetism perk" - how better to quantify this than with a high charisma? Look at pro wrestlers or (american) football stars - they are mostly big ugly muscleheads, yet they command amazing adoration from their fans. They have charisma.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:59 am

Craig writes:
Fallout is intellygence

Intelligence will affect some of the dialog options you have available in Fallout 1/2, but Charisma will affect NPC reactions and trigger an entirely different set of dialog options. You can be stupid and good-looking, after all. This may not make it easy for you to operate machinery, or breath and count at the same time, but with NPCs drooling on your pecs or curves, it may not matter.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 12:40 pm

Originally posted by Underdog:
Charisma is far more than just looks

I totally agree. Keldorn would be a good example. His "pretty boy" days are far behind him, yet he's still very charismatic.

Originally posted by THE JAKER:
I completely agree that being the child of a god gives "an enormous animal magnetism perk" - how better to quantify this than with a high charisma? Look at pro wrestlers or (american) football stars - they are mostly big ugly muscleheads, yet they command amazing adoration from their fans. They have charisma.

Hmm... I wouldn't immediately compare true charisma to the ability to attract fans. After all, once you get to know them better, some of those people might not turn out to be quite as compelling or inspiring as you might have hoped. Anyone with money and air time (and maybe some bulging muscles and/or the ability to move a piece of leather across a field) gets fans...

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:09 pm

Granted, Xyx, my example may not have been the best. Let's take, instead, Humphrey Bogart, Fred Astaire, and the guy from Gone with the Wind - Spencer Tracy. None of them handsome, yet they were the biggest movie stars.