Gem quest - spoilers

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:20 am

I'm getting a bit annoyed with this, I ALWAYS end up with Setara's gem but then I can't get Wanev's key off Elaith and therefore I also can't complete the five tomes quest. I have tried asking Elaith after drinking an Eagle's splendour potion, and it's not as if my Cleric is particularly ugly, but I still can't get her to give me the mission. I thought Persuade depended on Charisma - Elaith should be throwing the key at me therefore!

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:55 pm

Persuade does depend on CHA but remember you need two points in an ability to raise a skill one point. And Eagle's Splendor only added d4+1 ability points so the max your Persuade score will be increased will be 2 (or 3 if you already had an odd-numbered CHA).

A better option would be to get a Greater Mask of Persuasion or some similar item that boosts Persuade directly.

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:14 am

Right, but as she's a Cleric, I have concentrated her points on Charisma. She has a Charisma score of 20, so that should be 10. I appreciate that the Eagle Splendour might not do much, but I don't understand why finishing off two quests depends on something so hard to achieve for any other character than a Rogue (I guess it's a "And for all you Rogues out there - tired of being killed every five minutes? Unable to finish all those quests because you can't cast magic? Here's one for you."). It's not as if a Rogue is going to find the Tomes of any use, unless they are able to use all the magical counterparts.

I can just imagine my Half-Orc having a go at using his charisma!

I don't think that I have come across a Mask of Persuasion yet, I've found three Masks so far, but I think they all boosted Spell slots, gave Immunity for Death spells and I can't remember the other one. I definitly haven't found any other item for persuade, except "Charm Person"? Would that work?

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:07 am

[QUOTE=ladyblack]Right, but as she's a Cleric, I have concentrated her points on Charisma. She has a Charisma score of 20, so that should be 10. I
I can just imagine my Half-Orc having a go at using his charisma!

[/QUOTE]

20 charisma only gives a +5 bonus.

8 = -1
10 = 0
12= 1
and so on....

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:13 pm

[QUOTE=ladyblack]I appreciate that the Eagle Splendour might not do much, but I don't understand why finishing off two quests depends on something so hard to achieve for any other character than a Rogue (I guess it's a "And for all you Rogues out there - tired of being killed every five minutes? Unable to finish all those quests because you can't cast magic? Here's one for you."). It's not as if a Rogue is going to find the Tomes of any use, unless they are able to use all the magical counterparts. [/QUOTE]
To answer your broader question first, I am pretty sure you can get into Wanev's tower without the wardstone. You just have to fight your way past the guards (Trolls, I think) rather than have them let you in. I don't remember if I've ever done it that way, so I could be wrong, but the walkthroughs seem to suggest this is an option. So you shouldn't have to give up on the Book quest, even if you can't persuade Eliath to give you the gem quest.

[QUOTE=ladyblack]Right, but as she's a Cleric, I have concentrated her points on Charisma. She has a Charisma score of 20, so that should be 10. [...][/QUOTE]
Well, it still depends on how many points you allocated to her Pesuade skill. You can look that up on the second tab of the character sheet, which will show the total adjusted skill points including the effects of any potions. I'm not sure what Eliath's DC is to persuade him to give you the key, so this is an academic exercise, but knowing the numbers might help solve the problem.

[QUOTE=ladyblack]I don't think that I have come across a Mask of Persuasion yet, I've found three Masks so far, but I think they all boosted Spell slots, gave Immunity for Death spells and I can't remember the other one. I definitly haven't found any other item for persuade, except "Charm Person"? Would that work? [/QUOTE]
The rogue down by the docks (West of the temple) sells a Greater Mask of Persuasion. It isn't cheap, but it increases your Persuade by 5 and your CHA by 2 (which should bring the total up to 6 bonus points).

I wouldn't try Charm Person on an NPC. It usually makes them mindless so they can't answer your questions and then they go hostile when the spell wears off. However, I have never tried this in NWN so the effects may be different. I am going on PnP and the way things worked in Baldur's Gate.

In fact, it has been over a year since I played the NWN so trust... but verify.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:31 pm

[QUOTE=JackOfClubs]To answer your broader question first, I am pretty sure you can get into Wanev's tower without the wardstone. You just have to fight your way past the guards (Trolls, I think) rather than have them let you in. I don't remember if I've ever done it that way, so I could be wrong, but the walkthroughs seem to suggest this is an option. So you shouldn't have to give up on the Book quest, even if you can't persuade Eliath to give you the gem quest.<snip>[/QUOTE]

As I recall there is a back entrace, which leads through some caves, located in the same area as the gate to the Tower. So it should certainly be possible to enter the tower withouth the wardstone and thus without the key.

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:12 am

Well, you know, I had a feeling I had done the quest before without Elaith, but I think I was told that the big gate behind the Troll (yes, I remember the one, he was quite chatty until you try and bribe him) was locked too (as in, guarded against simple spells and lock picking). However, this could be my computer getting into a pickle, or else it wasn't locked in that way, but I had Tomi/Sharwyn with me at the time and they couldn't help and I couldn't be bothered to go pick up Dalean. So I've mentally marked it as "Unopenable". Right. I shall go blast the darn thing with a Ray of Sunshine.....Beam of light.....whatever...and knock it down that way...Hopefully.

Ooo, I don't remember a back way. I've never found it.

Aha, I thought Charisma would naturally boost your Perusade skills. Now that you've mentioned that, I haven't had a look at those particular skills at all. I spend all my time checking her Concentration (whcih seesm to be getting better).

Thanks all.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:46 pm

CHA does automatically boost Persuade, but only via the bonus we mentioned above. However, if you haven't put any ranks in persuade, it might not take the CHA bonus into account. I know that the Parry and Open Lock skills work this way. If you put at least 1 rank in manually, your ability bonus will be applied but if you don't you can't even access the radial icons to use those skills. I am not sure if Persuade works that way since it is dialogue-based, but if so it would explain your problem.

If it were me, I would seriously consider reverting to a save prior to my last level-up, just to boost that skill and get the quest. But you're probably not as obsessive about such things.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:42 pm

Persuade is an automatic skill if I remember right, which yous you don't have to train it to neither use it or recive the statistic bonus.
However - as mentioned when statistic only offers /2 as bonus to skill, then simply a high-ish charisma will not be sufficient to pass many persuade checks.

Placing some 5+ points in persuade (when/if you can spare them) is in my view always a good thing

or at least hang on to persuade items.

ladyblack · Post by **ladyblack** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:14 am

I'm always tormented by the fact that if I spend any points on anything non-recommended, then my monk won't be powerful enough at the end! I know, she'd be more powerful were she able to persuade people. Anyway, the good news is I got into Wanev's castle. It was as I suspected, I came across that door as a fighter, had Sharwyn with me (so she couldn't open it either) and failed to bash my way through. I thought the only way to get in would be to take a powerhouse like Dalean but couldn't be bothered to go back and get him, particularly if he didn't level up enough to bash the lock himself.

So, as a Cleric, I've completed the Tomes quest, and have moved on. Hoorah!

Spoiler for Aribeth's fate

The only thing that has annoyed me now is that I tried talking to Aribeth about her problems and after saying something or rather to her, I was suddenly dragged away - the view point shifted from talking to her, to looking down on us, and instead of getting anywhere, I was suddenly left with dialogue options that had nothing to do with how she was feeling. Now I've gone on to the next bit, and of course Aribeth has gone. I can only assume I didn't talk to her enough in the beginning quest, becasue now I assume I'm going to have to kill her at the end.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:23 pm

[QUOTE=ladyblack]

Spoiler for Aribeth's fate

The only thing that has annoyed me now is that I tried talking to Aribeth about her problems and after saying something or rather to her, I was suddenly dragged away - the view point shifted from talking to her, to looking down on us, and instead of getting anywhere, I was suddenly left with dialogue options that had nothing to do with how she was feeling. Now I've gone on to the next bit, and of course Aribeth has gone. I can only assume I didn't talk to her enough in the beginning quest, becasue now I assume I'm going to have to kill her at the end.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. I have never talked to her too much in the begining but am always able to convert her at the end. However, I also usually have a high Persuade skill, so that might be an issue for your character.

Space_Loner · Post by **Space_Loner** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:24 pm

Whatever char I play, I find I could spare the points to max Persuade, which helps at least as much as high cha.
If you like merc quests, it shouldn't have been to hard to do the Sharwyn quests for the Belt of Performer +3, pretty much same as your Greater Mask of Persuation. (Sharwyn gives arguably THE best merc quest reward in the game, with the possible exception of Grimgnaw's Silent Lord amulet)

Xiryith · Post by **Xiryith** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:52 am

I didn't know you needed any key. Always used the backdoor