Dungeon Lords *GONE GOLD* & Release Date

[fable]

[QUOTE=txa1265]I know that in Single Player mode Dungeon Lords *does* pause in any menu screen. But the combat action is pretty hectic and hairy at times. [/QUOTE]

Unless I misread Buck and you, this doesn't apply to the inventory screen--so I don't have time to find items I want to use. Nor can I simply stop action, and take stock of my situation. Pausing the screen behind a blocking menu doesn't really help me very much.

It doesn't sound like my kind of game, but I'm willing to wait and see what others who favor pause-time titles have to say.

[txa1265]

[QUOTE=fable]Unless I misread Buck and you, this doesn't apply to the inventory screen--so I don't have time to find items I want to use. Nor can I simply stop action, and take stock of my situation. Pausing the screen behind a blocking menu doesn't really help me very much.[/QUOTE]

Then perhaps I mis-typed Because I just tried it, and you *can* pause by choosing any menu (character, inventory, or save) ... save is best because it is translucent.

I always miss the opportunity to just 'pause' in a game, just to take a breather or assess things, but I think the save screen here is the best compromise.

Mike

[fable]

[QUOTE=txa1265]Then perhaps I mis-typed Because I just tried it, and you *can* pause by choosing any menu (character, inventory, or save) ... save is best because it is translucent.[/quote]

It was Buck: The combat isn't terrible, but there is no pause functionality so you have to be on your toes to an extent.

I may have misinterpreted what he said. So you mean, I could open up the inventory, equip a different weapon or take a potion, then go back to the carnage?

[txa1265]

[QUOTE=fable]I may have misinterpreted what he said. So you mean, I could open up the inventory, equip a different weapon or take a potion, then go back to the carnage?[/QUOTE]
Yep ... but in multiplayer there is no pause ...

In fact, due to an obvious oversight, your health regenerates in menu pause mode. So you can hit esc to survey thescene and heal up a bit. Of course, the enemies tend to gather when you do that.

Mike

[BuckGB]

[QUOTE=txa1265]Because I just tried it, and you *can* pause by choosing any menu (character, inventory, or save) ... save is best because it is translucent.[/QUOTE]
I've been playing a two-player cooperative game exclusively, so I wasn't aware that these menus paused the game during the single player version.

Fable - I don't think you can drink a potion or cast a spell unless it's assigned to your 1-8 hotkeys. From how it sounds, though, you might be able to change your equipment or manipulate your stats during combat during the single player game. If you can get to your equipment screen and have it pause the game, then you could change all of your hotkeys too during a battle. Nice =). Looks like I'll have to try the single player version soon.

[txa1265]

You can at least drink potions from the inventory menu - I've never tried with a spell.

The rest is exactly as you say - you can do *anything* at any time.

Mike

[fable]

You leave me feeling more hopeful about it. I'll definitely keep an eye open, perhaps two, for its appearance.

[BuckGB]

Give it a week or two, Fable. I spent a few more hours in Dungeon Lords this evening and I'm starting to realize just how much the game needs patching. There are many things that I love about this game and I still feel as though it has great potential, but I can't help feeling that so many things about the game are unfinished as I get farther into it.

I assumed the first town (Fargrove) should be fairly unpopulated because of the lockdown imposed, but the later towns are ghost towns as well. There are several buildings with nothing in them - not even furniture. Maybe Heuristic Park intended them to be this way, but I can't help feeling like the towns should be more lively.

I also happened upon a nice assortment of equipment and a handful of spells at the beginning of the game, but now new equipment and spells are virtually nonexistant. Even after going through some of the major dungeons of the game and ransacking every chest, I'm still using much of the same equipment and casting many of the same spells I found in the first 6-8 hours I played. Sure, I happen upon a new item here and there but overall the handouts are extremely stingy. I did notice this is something they plan on implementing in the first patch, though, so hopefully things will get better.

Like I said, I still think this game has great potential, I just find myself amazed that a developer would release the game with major features disabled and so many glaring bugs. Didn't the closure of Troika Games teach us anything? Dungeon Lords could easily be an all-time classic, yet it will probably end up with a bunch of mediocre reviews and its publisher (DreamCatcher Games) will decide that it's not worth funding any further patching. We'll probably end up with a couple of "unofficial" patches released by the community and only the most hardcore and patient of RPG enthusiasts will get to enjoy the game how it should have been played at release time a couple of months down the road.

Do developers and publishers not realize how much more success a game like this would achieve if it just had a couple more months of development time? It's extremely frustrating.

[Xandax]

[QUOTE=Buck Satan]Give it a week or two, Fable. I spent a few more hours in Dungeon Lords this evening and I'm starting to realize just how much the game needs patching. There are many things that I love about this game and I still feel as though it has great potential, but I can't help feeling that so many things about the game are unfinished as I get farther into it.
<snip>[/QUOTE]

Hehe - why am I not surprised. This is the standard of allmost all games these days...... somebody needs to go postal on developers/publishers

[fable]

Not to move off-topic, but I have to say I agree with Xan. I'm sympathetic to the fact that games are far, far larger than they once were, when it was relatively easy to catch all bugs and nearly all minor ones before release. But I've seen too many games lately--ToEE, KotoR 2, and now, it appears from the above, Dungeon Lords--where the game is released in an unfinished state. Not merely buggy, but actually incomplete, like a painting with many areas sketched in.

As long as buyers tolerate this, it will continue. But like Buck, I have to wonder how much of a loss developers and publishers are taking by pushing successive products out the door too early. And the longterm fallout is another aspect nobody is considering: you can build a reputation for consistent quality, or you can build one for cheap, unfinished merchandise. It's easy to lose the first. It's tough to dodge the second, once you've got it.

[fable]

Gamezone has a review up: rather poor, all things considered, since the reviewer's sense of gaming history is far off the mark, and lacks background in RPGs outside of Diablo, which arguably isn't an RPG. It's superficial, recounts some features, and seems to basically like what's there without much explanation. Hopefully, more detailed, intelligently devised reviews will show up, soon.

[fable]

...and just got word that the 1.1 patch is about to appear. I have to reiterate what Xan and I both said, earlier, and ask: if you're going to issue a patch so close to the initial game release, why bother making it a patch, at all? Why not wait a few days, and release it as part of the game?

[BuckGB]

Well, I typically don't have anything negative to say about other websites, but that review is subpar at best. Like you mentioned, they provide no valid comparisons to other RPGs and don't give any good examples of the game's positives and negatives. This is what really gets me though, in their conclusion:

"By letting players customize their avatars to a high degree the developers have given a world of possibilities to the players."

All character customization (aside from equipment) was removed from the game. You can no longer change your hair style, hair color, facial features, etc. Just pick your race, a base class, and that's it. Granted, you can ascend into specialized classes later in the game, but judging from their review I doubt they had a chance to try many (or any) of them out.

The good news is that the v1.1 update is out:
http://www.dreamcatchergames.com/dci/su ... hes/dl.php

I haven't tried the updated version, but I agree with your point that they should have held off to release the game with this patch already installed. From the notes, it sounds like it addresses a few of my bigger concerns, which would have went a long way for the barrage of reviews that will no doubt hit this week. I'm still hoping character customization and the automap feature get reinstated in a future patch. If these two features make it and a couple more bugs are addressed, this game would make my personal all-time favorite list.

[fable]

Buck, it sounds as though you really like it a lot. That's more than a simply a "yeah, it's a good game." What is it that really gets you enthusiastic about the title? Not just the things you enjoy; the things you enjoy, if you take my meaning.

[BuckGB]

Let's see...

- A huge world to explore, with plenty of "hidden" objects (altars, shrines, treasure chests, etc) to be found by searching every corner of the world. There is a lot of mystery shrouding many of the buildings and other objects you come across, too. I find myself jotting down where I saw things so I can return later. How many RPGs really give you the sense that you're "adventuring" anymore?

- Non-linear, for the most part. You're free to explore half of the game world immediately, with the other half becoming available later on after certain events take place. For the most part, you can choose which dungeons you want to explore next and are not forced through the storyline like many other modern RPGs.

- A vast assortment of specialty classes for your character to branch out to over the course of the game. Many powerful skills are not available to you without first ascending to certain classes, and the specifics on how to ascend to each are a total mystery.

- Multiplayer cooperative support. This is huge in my opinion, as very few RPGs have ever done this. There are a lot of puzzles and maze-like corridors in the game's dungeons, where the help of a friend is very nice to have. Additionally, you only have to be in the same zone, so even in the largest dungeon you can be split up exploring entirely different areas. And, to top it off, the multiplayer runs very well with all characters progressing through the storyline together.

- All of the above lead to a great sense of accomplishment while playing and allow for plenty of replayability. I will definitely be going through this game a few times to try out the different races and specialty classes. There are a *lot* of quests that are specific to certain races/classes, and I'll no doubt find areas of the world I've never seen each time through the game.

Does that sum it up?

[fable]

Yes, it does. If you don't mind answering a few other questions: How's NPC interaction? Typical multiple choice? Are the NPCs interesting, as far as dialog is concerned? And can you add any to your party?

[BuckGB]

NPC interaction is your standard faire with dialogue being offered via multiple choice, although the response you get from prominent NPCs when choosing each option is usually quite lengthy (and typically fully voiced too). I haven't found the long text boring, though - it's well thought out and fairly captivating.

NPCs that have nothing to do with the progression of the game usually don't have much to say and can be bland at times. However, even such "no name" NPCs can have something important to say. For example, talking to a prisoner you let loose from a dungeon prison might reveal information about hidden treasure, etc. Overall, the interaction and storytelling is solid and is definitely better than Wizards & Warriors.

You cannot add anybody to your party, unless you bring real people in from a LAN, Direct IP, or Internet connection.

[txa1265]

Everything you mention is true ... and is both the boon and bane of the game.

Personally, two of my 'top 5 ever' games are Gothic II and Jedi Knight II. So how could I *not* have been anticipating this title?

Add to it all the stuff Buck mentions, the nonlinear exploration and so on, and you have a winner. But the quest log is useless, the class system unclear at times (in terms of what you can or cannot do) and other little details. Finally, the towns (so far) are largely empty, and the obviously unfinished elements like a map and character customization are problems.

I'm glad they were quick to patch - in case it isn't obvious they (HP) were *forced* under legal threats to get the game out by the publisher (DreamCatcher). They were almost done with the patch when the game was released, and had actually hoped to have it done pre-retail.

It *is* a sad, sad thing. The DreamCatcher boards are a wreck of ranting and unconstructive raving...

Mike

[fable]

[QUOTE=txa1265]I'm glad they were quick to patch - in case it isn't obvious they (HP) were *forced* under legal threats to get the game out by the publisher (DreamCatcher). They were almost done with the patch when the game was released, and had actually hoped to have it done pre-retail.
[/QUOTE]

Mike, you state this as a plain fact. Not that I'm doubting you, but do you know this to be the case? It is certainly a logical outcome, but necessarily *the* outcome, given the oddities of human motivation.

[txa1265]

[QUOTE=fable]Mike, you state this as a plain fact. Not that I'm doubting you, but do you know this to be the case? It is certainly a logical outcome, but necessarily *the* outcome, given the oddities of human motivation.[/QUOTE]Are you old enough to have enjoyed Hogan's Heroes as a kid? (I guess I'm dating myself here )

... anyway, in the words of Sgt. Schulz - I know nothing, NOTHING ...



Mike