I have read that choice of a race doesn't really limit how you can go on to develop your character as he or she continues gaining experience throughout this game. I haven't played the game but I have seen the character creation screen and I don't agree. Let me explain – if you choose Human male for example you'll spend 27 863 points on strength from level 20 to level 30 (2000+2143+2297 etc.). With Elf male you'll need 55 727 points and with Thrall more than 110 000. If you select Urgoth only 6 962 will be sufficient for the same progress. In fact Urgoth strength advancement points are shifted 20 levels down compared to Human male and Thrall strength a.p. are shifted 20 levels up. The next tab could be helpful for those beginning their D.L. adventure (+number doesn't mean points, percent or levels, consider it as a race bonus):
.... HM - HF - UG - DW - WY - EM - EF - ZA - TH
ST.. 0 . -50 +200 +100 -150 -100 -150 .+50 -200
IN... 0 . +50 -150 .-50 .+50 +100 +150 -100 +100
DE.. 0 ... 0 . -150 .. 0 . . 0 . +50 . +50 -100 +100
AG.. 0 .+50 .-100 -100 +200 +50 +100 +100 +150
VI... 0 .-50 .+200 .+50 -100 -100 -150 .+50 -150
HO.. 0 .. 0 . .. 0 . .. 0 . .. 0 . . 0 . .. 0 . .. 0 . . 0
Character creation help
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fable
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It really depends on what professions you want to emphasize. Has anyone created a chart detailing the effects of raised Intelligence on experience required to increase stats/skills? We know more INT translates into less experience required to raise stats/skills--but by how much?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
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fable
- Posts: 30676
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[QUOTE=ManoColla]Every 10 points of IN = -5% from a.p. needed to raise skills (weapons, magic etc.) and no benefit in raising stats (ST, IN...). So if you reach 200 IN all you have to do is to kill a fly and you can raise your skills to heaven.[/QUOTE]
And of course, the cost of INT, like everything else, escalates as you add to it. Has anyone found this aspect of INT gathering (pardon the pun) useful in gameplay?
And of course, the cost of INT, like everything else, escalates as you add to it. Has anyone found this aspect of INT gathering (pardon the pun) useful in gameplay?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=ManoColla]Exactly. I doubt about finishing the game if you choose a bad character.[/QUOTE]
What you read was wrong. The character races were intentionally set up to force players to make a choice at start-up about which race best suits the type of character envisioned. That is why an Urgoth or Dwarf gets insane return of strength and vitality, while a female elf pays dearly for these attributes, but gets intelligence at a low cost. The Urgoth or Dwarf will have a tough time with boosting their intelligence though and that will make it difficult to advance the expensive magic and regeneration skills. It's all meant to be like that.
It's modelled on a d&d concept of race differentials and class potentials. It seems to combine some of the complexity of Neverwinter Nights system while mimicing somewhat DII's differential progression of attributes given as characters level up. As such, it is a vast improvement on the static, uniform development systems some games employ. Flawless, far from it, but it does force players to make real decisions at start-up.
So, you are right, if you choose the female elf and expect to finish the game as a hard-hitting melee specialist, you are in trouble.
What you read was wrong. The character races were intentionally set up to force players to make a choice at start-up about which race best suits the type of character envisioned. That is why an Urgoth or Dwarf gets insane return of strength and vitality, while a female elf pays dearly for these attributes, but gets intelligence at a low cost. The Urgoth or Dwarf will have a tough time with boosting their intelligence though and that will make it difficult to advance the expensive magic and regeneration skills. It's all meant to be like that.
It's modelled on a d&d concept of race differentials and class potentials. It seems to combine some of the complexity of Neverwinter Nights system while mimicing somewhat DII's differential progression of attributes given as characters level up. As such, it is a vast improvement on the static, uniform development systems some games employ. Flawless, far from it, but it does force players to make real decisions at start-up.
So, you are right, if you choose the female elf and expect to finish the game as a hard-hitting melee specialist, you are in trouble.
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fable
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Frodo1, I don't think we're discussing ideal situations here, but how different systems pan out in the gameplay of separate titles. With that in mind, ManoColla isn't arbitrarily wrong; a person who has created an entirely magic-based character is going to be extremely frustrated at their PC's lack of viability. Dungeon Lords' gameplay simply isn't currently configured for this, so it could be considered a "bad character" in terms of what will let you win without bashing out your brains against a wall, first. I've tried it, and so have many other players I know. This is a matter of game balance, and is (supposedly) one of the issues being redressed in the 1.2 patch.
Similarly, in terms of gameplay, Morrowind is virtually impossible to win if you try to go the pure mage route; but contrast, Arcanum can be done in this fashion, since the designers deliberately wanted to allow for this. They created an effective first level attack spell that cost very little mana/magicka/whatever, so as to encourage the "pure mage build."
Similarly, in terms of gameplay, Morrowind is virtually impossible to win if you try to go the pure mage route; but contrast, Arcanum can be done in this fashion, since the designers deliberately wanted to allow for this. They created an effective first level attack spell that cost very little mana/magicka/whatever, so as to encourage the "pure mage build."
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
I agree with ManoColla and Sable
I am still playing around with the Demo but I have to agree with both
ManoColla and Sable and Sable's comments on Arcanum are right on
the money. Loved the game! Dungeon Lords needs some revamping
from what my Demo character a Human Fighter as it seems like every-
thing is AdvPnts expensive. I find it especially true when packs of 12
wolves are constantly spawning along with groups of three greater(?)
scorpions and you only start with 5 cures for poison and don't find any.
I will say that this is probably the best Demo I have ever played as long
as you stay away from Scorch and don't go inside. I feel it gives you a
far better chance to get a feel for your first character and what he will
need as far as Stats and Skills and makes it more replayable. I don't
know if I have to progress up to a higher character than fighter or not.
I always take into consideration the fact that my character has to be able
to defend himself, have the ability to heal himself beyond what potions do,
pick locks, identify and disable trapped chests and have at least one magic
skill that is very offensive for when you are facing a boss or a bad ass pack
of wolves or scorps. I am playing the Demo after I reached level 8 in the
hard monster and generate more mode and it is still hard to advance my
basic fighting skills. It does you no good to have a lot of life if you haven't
built in the skills for keeping it first. I then slowly increase my life as any
potion that heals you completely is better in the early stages until you can
afford stronger ones. I have used this formula with all my characters I have
developed along with the philosophy that it is far better to run than use up
all of your healing ability and then pick off the monsters around the edge of
the group before you go in for the final kill.
The mapping from what I have not seen in the Demo or read on forums needs
to be improved like in a major way. I hate running from a pack of 12 wolves
and not really knowing where I might be able to make a stand because there
is no map or even a compass. The two best games as far as mapping that
I have played are "Diablo II/LOD" and "Divine Divinity" and "DD" has by far the
best transport system ever.
This game definitely needs a Strategy Guide to help understand synergies
between skills and stats. Strength increases after a certain point give a
plus to damage in melee but does it apply to archery skills and I haven't
found that it does. I would like to know what the possible progressions are
for a given character before I find out too late that he can't do something
I would like him to be able to do. The camera needs fixing also because if
you are fighting a group of monsters and get knocked back into some tall
grass 'they can see you' but you can't see them until you do some quick
adjusting on the fly of the camera which puts your life in danger or you run
for an open space but in which direction was that opening(?). The game
also needs a Pause button that doesn't obscure the screen as Mother Nature,
doorbells and phonecalls as they tend to happen at the worst of times during
the middle of big or life threatening battle.
I am enjoying the Demo for the most part and feel that this game can rate
right up there with my all time favorites but it needs some fast fixes or people
will not buy it after the Demo in frustration. The list of some of my all time
favorites are as follows: Diablo II/LOD, Divine Divinty, Arcanum, Icewind Dale
and Homeworld. I did not include Neverwinter Nights as the mapping and
pathfinding are simply terrible as I hate dropping cookie crumbs to find my
way back though it usually involves unwanted item and potions that I might need.
......Kel
*
I am still playing around with the Demo but I have to agree with both
ManoColla and Sable and Sable's comments on Arcanum are right on
the money. Loved the game! Dungeon Lords needs some revamping
from what my Demo character a Human Fighter as it seems like every-
thing is AdvPnts expensive. I find it especially true when packs of 12
wolves are constantly spawning along with groups of three greater(?)
scorpions and you only start with 5 cures for poison and don't find any.
I will say that this is probably the best Demo I have ever played as long
as you stay away from Scorch and don't go inside. I feel it gives you a
far better chance to get a feel for your first character and what he will
need as far as Stats and Skills and makes it more replayable. I don't
know if I have to progress up to a higher character than fighter or not.
I always take into consideration the fact that my character has to be able
to defend himself, have the ability to heal himself beyond what potions do,
pick locks, identify and disable trapped chests and have at least one magic
skill that is very offensive for when you are facing a boss or a bad ass pack
of wolves or scorps. I am playing the Demo after I reached level 8 in the
hard monster and generate more mode and it is still hard to advance my
basic fighting skills. It does you no good to have a lot of life if you haven't
built in the skills for keeping it first. I then slowly increase my life as any
potion that heals you completely is better in the early stages until you can
afford stronger ones. I have used this formula with all my characters I have
developed along with the philosophy that it is far better to run than use up
all of your healing ability and then pick off the monsters around the edge of
the group before you go in for the final kill.
The mapping from what I have not seen in the Demo or read on forums needs
to be improved like in a major way. I hate running from a pack of 12 wolves
and not really knowing where I might be able to make a stand because there
is no map or even a compass. The two best games as far as mapping that
I have played are "Diablo II/LOD" and "Divine Divinity" and "DD" has by far the
best transport system ever.
This game definitely needs a Strategy Guide to help understand synergies
between skills and stats. Strength increases after a certain point give a
plus to damage in melee but does it apply to archery skills and I haven't
found that it does. I would like to know what the possible progressions are
for a given character before I find out too late that he can't do something
I would like him to be able to do. The camera needs fixing also because if
you are fighting a group of monsters and get knocked back into some tall
grass 'they can see you' but you can't see them until you do some quick
adjusting on the fly of the camera which puts your life in danger or you run
for an open space but in which direction was that opening(?). The game
also needs a Pause button that doesn't obscure the screen as Mother Nature,
doorbells and phonecalls as they tend to happen at the worst of times during
the middle of big or life threatening battle.
I am enjoying the Demo for the most part and feel that this game can rate
right up there with my all time favorites but it needs some fast fixes or people
will not buy it after the Demo in frustration. The list of some of my all time
favorites are as follows: Diablo II/LOD, Divine Divinty, Arcanum, Icewind Dale
and Homeworld. I did not include Neverwinter Nights as the mapping and
pathfinding are simply terrible as I hate dropping cookie crumbs to find my
way back though it usually involves unwanted item and potions that I might need.
......Kel
*
*
"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
*
"Time is a honest judge and a relentless master ..... Use it well or regret it later."
*
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Gaal Dornik
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:10 pm
- Contact:
I have done the same table, in percentages. I used my own calculations, but comparing them both, they look same. I assume your numbers were from the game files, while I checked ingame.
Numbers are percentages(%) Higher % means attribute is more expensive to raise. Lower % means attribute is cheaper. CPP is overall cost per point. Higher value means that in general it costs more to spend points with this character.
Some observations:
Thrall and Urgoth are by far the priciest to develop, while both humans are the cheapest to build an overall well-build character. Incidentally T. and U. are both heavily specialized. For a Thrall, it costs 9 times more points to increase Str, than to Ugroth.
Urgoth is a strange beast. Meant as a fighter with excellent life/strength boni. But in this game a fighter needs dex/agi as well. Combined with a fact that Urgoth’s points costs the most, he is heavily penalized. Rather not advisable.
Thrall has a bonus to AGI, which is an excellent attribute for a mage, probably the best, which would make Thrall the best mage too. But speed bonus is capped, means that elf female will have no probs to reach the cap as well. So he loses.
Elf female is way cheaper (no pun intended) and has excellent boni where she needs to (no pun intended again
) Best mage.
Dwarf, Zaur Male: fighters
Wylvan male, Elf male, human female: mages
Human Male is THE master of everything, for he gets the most gain out of experience he gets and isn’t penalized anywhere. Neither does he get any boni too, though. Usefulnes? Depends from how late game stats are looking. If they are rather all equal, then he is the best. If they show significant differences, then he is “only” very good
Have fun.
(PS i hate code.. )
Numbers are percentages(%) Higher % means attribute is more expensive to raise. Lower % means attribute is cheaper. CPP is overall cost per point. Higher value means that in general it costs more to spend points with this character.
Code: Select all
...[color=yellow] HM HF UG DW WY EM EF ZA TH[/color]
[color=blue]STR[/color] 100% 132% 33% 58% 230% 174% 174% 76% 303%
[color=blue]INT[/color] 100% 76% 230% 132% 76% 58% 44% 174% 58%
[color=blue]DEX[/color] 100% 100% 230% 100% 100% 76% 76% 174% 58%
[color=blue]AGI[/color] 100% 76% 174% 174% 33% 76% 58% 58% 44%
[color=blue]VIT[/color] 100% 132% 33% 76% 174% 174% 230% 76% 230%
[color=blue]HON[/color] 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
-------------------------------------------------
[color=red]CPP[/color] 100% 103% 133% 107% 120% 110% 114% 110% 130%
Some observations:
Thrall and Urgoth are by far the priciest to develop, while both humans are the cheapest to build an overall well-build character. Incidentally T. and U. are both heavily specialized. For a Thrall, it costs 9 times more points to increase Str, than to Ugroth.
Urgoth is a strange beast. Meant as a fighter with excellent life/strength boni. But in this game a fighter needs dex/agi as well. Combined with a fact that Urgoth’s points costs the most, he is heavily penalized. Rather not advisable.
Thrall has a bonus to AGI, which is an excellent attribute for a mage, probably the best, which would make Thrall the best mage too. But speed bonus is capped, means that elf female will have no probs to reach the cap as well. So he loses.
Elf female is way cheaper (no pun intended) and has excellent boni where she needs to (no pun intended again
) Best mage.Dwarf, Zaur Male: fighters
Wylvan male, Elf male, human female: mages
Human Male is THE master of everything, for he gets the most gain out of experience he gets and isn’t penalized anywhere. Neither does he get any boni too, though. Usefulnes? Depends from how late game stats are looking. If they are rather all equal, then he is the best. If they show significant differences, then he is “only” very good
Have fun.
(PS i hate code..
)