Heal and Revitalize (Mild SW:EP3 spoiler)

[Ned Flanders]

Warning: This thread is mildly spoilerish if you haven't seen revenge of the Sith yet.

Having just seen Revenge of the Sith, I was thinking about Chancellor Palpitine's playing of Anakin and his promise to teach the powers to keep Padme 'alive'. Yet in KoTOR II, Heal and Revitalize are listed as light side powers. It just seems a little contradictory with the movie, however, Palpitine's description in the movie seems a little more necromantic than the abilities present in the game.

Still, it bugs me a little bit that in RPG's there is always such a fine line drawn with magic. Light/good side is usually associated with healing and Evil/dark side is usually offensive or dealing death.

Revitalize in particular seems like it should be a dark side power.

[Obi-Wan-Evan]

Palpatine (spell?) just said they can save padme alive. to turn him to the dark side. That doesnt mean the power is a darkside power.

[Xandax]

[QUOTE=Ned Flanders]Warning: This thread is mildly spoilerish if you haven't seen revenge of the Sith yet.
<snip>[/QUOTE]


Then type so in the thread title please

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[Chimaera182]

Palpatine (correct spelling ) probably was lying. He wouldn't care to save Padme; if she died, Anakin would become the rage-filled hate machine that he turned into. Not to mention that if she died with her child (they only thought she had the one), that would remove a potential threat to the Emperor in future.

[Admo]

Yes, and at the end he didn't really know if she was dead IMO. Either that or Anakin saw his future as a Jedi, when really his future played out to the letter as he saw it.

But Palpatine was just tricking him constantly, and like you say, it wouldn't be a dark-side power.

However, I don't believe it would be a light-side power either. Not in the sense that is talked about in Episode 3. Revitalise and Heal are powers that heal wounds, and treat injuries. In Episode 3 they talk about prolonging life and preventing death, which I don't think is what the Jedi stand for. The force can prolong there life, but I don't think they would actively seek to do something like that, they believe in nature taking its course you would think.

[Ripe]

In RPG's there is allways a line between good/evil powers and spells but that is not the case in SW. All the force powers are available to all jedi/sith. In SW it does not matter what power you use, it's what you use that power for. When Yoda used the force to pull Luke's X-wing out of a swamp he used "Light Side of the Force" and latter in the same movie when Vader used that same force power to throw various peaces of equipment on Luke during their duel on Bespin he was using "Dark Side of the Force" (incidently that is the same power, just used in a different way that Vader used to choke those Star Destroyer captains).

[Ergophobia]

That'd make for an interesting feature... but that would mean that a LS jedi could only use damaging force powers (throw sabre, push, destroy droid, or even stasis) with severe penalties, since attacking people would draw upon the dark side of the force...

[Ripe]

[QUOTE=Ergophobia]That'd make for an interesting feature... but that would mean that a LS jedi could only use damaging force powers (throw sabre, push, destroy droid, or even stasis) with severe penalties, since attacking people would draw upon the dark side of the force...[/QUOTE]
Combat is different thing alltogether. You are allowed to fight (and attack your oponent because it'll count as self-defense). As for damaging force powers...
I'm not sure what to made of Saber throw, but since we saw Yoda using it I guess it's OK.
Push would depend on where you push your oponent: if you pushed him off some cliff so he would die as a result of a fall, then it's dark side of the force. If you use it simply to give yourself a "breathing" space then it's OK.
Since I'm not sure if Destroy droid power exist in SW universe (outside KotoR games) I cannot realy tell one way or the other.
As for stasis - putting someone in stasis is not a dark side action, but striking a helpless oponent while he's in stasis is definetly a DS thing to do. So puting someone in stasis so you could arest him is OK, but puting him in stasis so you could kill him easier (what you do in KotoR games) is not and would be using dark side.

Like I said, it's not what you use, it's HOW you use it.

Edit: those are basic guidelines I use when DM-ing a SW RPG sesion.

[Chimaera182]

It's all a certain point of view. After all, if you're going to class all "attack" powers as dark side powers, you'd have to include such instances as Yoda's saber throw, as well as when he used the Force to knock Palpatine's two guards unconcious. Or how about when Yoda absorbed Dooku's lightning and threw it back at him? That was certainly an attack, and who uses Force lightning to attack?

[Admo]

[QUOTE=Ripe]In RPG's there is allways a line between good/evil powers and spells but that is not the case in SW. All the force powers are available to all jedi/sith. In SW it does not matter what power you use, it's what you use that power for. When Yoda used the force to pull Luke's X-wing out of a swamp he used "Light Side of the Force" and latter in the same movie when Vader used that same force power to throw various peaces of equipment on Luke during their duel on Bespin he was using "Dark Side of the Force" (incidently that is the same power, just used in a different way that Vader used to choke those Star Destroyer captains).[/QUOTE]

Thats what happens after the Emporer is destroyed, the Jedi accept that there is no light-side/dark-side of the Force, its what you use your powers for. While the "dark-side" (as in very destructive) powers are more easily observed (as in, it appears powerful), the "light-side" powers are a bit more thoughtful in their use. But they are all part of one Force.

Its not that the Jedi don't attack, its more that they use the Force to defend more than attack - a slightly more thoughtful approach again. Yoda only threw Dooku's lightning back at him, he didn't actually create the lightning.

None of its clear-cut though lets face it

[Ripe]

You know I said couple of times that it's not important what power you use, but how you used it. I forgot what is possibly the most important part of equasion: WHY you use that power. One of the most basic division is that if you use the force for personal gain you use dark side, and if you use it for "greater good" or "good of all" then you are using light side. That is why in Yoda vs. Dooku Yoda uses light side - he want to stop Dooku from escaping because Dooku is leader of separatists (that is what Jedi belive at that point) and capturing him could end the war (good of all). Dooku just wishes to escape capture (personal gain). Or in Yoda vs. Emperor - Yoda wishes to end Emperor's rule of evil while Emperor figths to stay in power.

I see we got into a philosophical discusion about the force and we didn't answered Ned's question. My opinion is that Emperor didn't use Heal or Revitalize or any other force power to save Vader. What kept Vader alive was his hatred, first of Obi-Wan because he thougt Obi-Wan turned Padme against him, and later of himself after finding out what hapend on Mustafar. It was that hatred that sustained him and kept him alive for all those years of Emperor's rule untill he finaly let go of his hatred on Second Death Star after saving Luke and as a result of that he died. (If you notice it's rather similar to Darth Sion's story KotoR II. He was so full of hatred and that hatred revived him evey time untill you tell him all is a lie and he let go so you're able to defeat him.)

[Admo]

Yes. Although his suit did a lot of the job of keeping him alive. Perhaps if he had remained dark-side he could have held on for much longer, but as a light-sider he didn't fight to live anymore.

[Darth Zenemij]

Ned are you sure that palpatine was talking about Revalitize, and perhaps Darth Plageous (who was palpatines master) made it to where it was some kind of evil like heal where he would make them swear alligence (sp?).
I agree with Chammera 182, he didn't really care for Padame.